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Train Seating Etiquette

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CheesyChips

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A tactic to bear in mind may be to occupy the seat closest to the aisle. If somebody wants to sit next you, they'll have to ask you to move at which point you would move into the aisle to allow them to pass you and then you're at liberty to either reoccupy your seat if the other person maintains a one-seat separation or you can find a other space as you're already stood in the aisle.

It means you can't become 'trapped', but at the cost of losing a window seat :(

Or if you're really confident, make strong eye contact tell him that the "lettuce leaf grows sideways after felve o clock". You'll either make a best friend, or you'll become known as 'that girl' and have your choice of seats forevermore.

Or when they're looking at your phone, type into Google: "how to hide body of fellow passenger"
 
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DarloRich

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I travel by train to work most days, I posted on here with an issue previously and was given very solid and practical advice. I don’t really want to ask for advice this time, more see if anyone else has had a similar experience and if anyone reacted in a different manner. I’m not sure if this is the best place to post it but here goes.

I recently moved a little further away from my destination, and my new station has no ticket machine but as it is less frequently stopped at I get an earlier train which ALWAYS has a ticket conductor/guard on board which is brilliant. Very good service. This is not about the train but it is about a fellow passenger.

This morning I boarded my usual train and sat down. The carriage has rows of three seats on one side and rows of two on the other. I chose an empty three seat row and sat in the window seat with my bags on my lap to allow space next to me if the train gets busy at the next stop – this is unlikely as this is the stopper. There are plenty more empty seats in front and behind and to the side of me.

The ticket inspector approached me, whilst he was taking my card the train came to the next stop and he left me to go to the door. The doors open and a man walks in and comes and sits in the middle of the 3 seater, right next to me and puts his legs right up against mine and squashes his arms against mine as well.

The ticket inspector comes back to me and I hand him my card again and we complete the transaction, this was very awkward and concealing my PIN was difficult as the man next to me had moved even closer to me. Even though more people had moved onto the train and into the carriage the third space at the end of the row was still empty and there were several empty rows.

I get my tickets and with some difficulty I put them away in my bag. I said excuse me to the man several times as every time I moved, no matter how small I made my movements he was going to be jostled by my actions. I took my phone out to catch up on some social media, and the whole time I’m doing this he is staring at my phone screen. I turned it away and he made a disparaging noise.

I was very uncomfortable for the whole journey, I’m not a big fan of confrontation so I didn’t say anything, I think the situation threw me a little and I couldn’t think of saying anything. I considered moving to another row, but even though I’m not very confrontational - I’m also quite stubborn.

When it came to my stop I said “Excuse me” again, I thought he would be difficult but he got up out of the way and let me pass, but when I got to the end he sort of pushed me out of the way to quickly get back in to the window seat.

I’m wondering if anyone has had a similar experience, what did you do in that situation? I know he was well within his rights to sit next to me as it was a free space and I always have my bag on my knee. Is there any train etiquette I could call upon? Am I breaking any etiquette rules and should I have chosen a different seat?

I’m worried that he may get on the train again either tomorrow or another day in the future and I want to be able to avoid this situation again.

I will be honest: I wonder how some of you posting on this thread survive the real world.

To the OP: IF you are really worried use the BTP hot line which you can text discretely on 61016. I would also try and find the guard or station staff when you get off and report it and move if you feel uncomfortable.

I would just ask him if he had a problem and tell him to sod off. Being a northern ex prop forward that tends to work, especially with the cockneys ;)
 
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I'm a scrawny 27 year old woman and once had a similar experience while I was on a late train, going to work. In fairness, this was on Halloween night. There were a few drunks on and the guard was hiding in the back (Can't say I blame him!). It was fairly quiet in my carriage and I had a table seat all to myself. A bloke with 3 friends got on. One of them had a zombie-style mask on. He sat next to me and just stared at me for the rest of the journey, breathing heavily. I know it might sound stupid, I'm sure he was only joking and showing off to his friends, but it was slightly unnerving. I tried to laugh it off, but he didn't move until I got up. Luckily I was only a few stops away from work.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I'm a scrawny 27 year old woman and once had a similar experience while I was on a late train, going to work. In fairness, this was on Halloween night. There were a few drunks on and the guard was hiding in the back (Can't say I blame him!). It was fairly quiet in my carriage and I had a table seat all to myself. A bloke with 3 friends got on. One of them had a zombie-style mask on. He sat next to me and just stared at me for the rest of the journey, breathing heavily. I know it might sound stupid, I'm sure he was only joking and showing off to his friends, but it was slightly unnerving. I tried to laugh it off, but he didn't move until I got up. Luckily I was only a few stops away from work.

That's just about the most perfect illustration of male privilege you're likely to find. If you'd kicked him in the plums you'd have been justified.
 

DarloRich

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That's just about the most perfect illustration of male privilege you're likely to find. If you'd kicked him in the plums you'd have been justified.

Sometimes warranted to knock certain men down a peg or ten..

and be charged with assault? My client, an asthmatic, was viciously assaulted by a crazed woman on a train.............

;)
 

al78

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and be charged with assault? My client, an asthmatic, was viciously assaulted by a crazed woman on a train.............

;)

Ah yes, the usual ignore the provocation but bring the hand of god down on the retaliation. A way of giving licence for bullies and sociopaths to behave in an unacceptable manner and make victims of others with no consequence <(.
 

Greenback

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No poor behaviour should be ignored, but that includes retaliation that falls outside the legal definition of self defence.
 
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I'm a scrawny 27 year old woman and once had a similar experience while I was on a late train, going to work. In fairness, this was on Halloween night. There were a few drunks on and the guard was hiding in the back (Can't say I blame him!). It was fairly quiet in my carriage and I had a table seat all to myself. A bloke with 3 friends got on. One of them had a zombie-style mask on. He sat next to me and just stared at me for the rest of the journey, breathing heavily. I know it might sound stupid, I'm sure he was only joking and showing off to his friends, but it was slightly unnerving. I tried to laugh it off, but he didn't move until I got up. Luckily I was only a few stops away from work.

That sounds horrible, it's difficult because unless you want a confrontation what is there you can do? At least they *may* have the excuse of being drunk. But it doesn't sound stupid. I don't think they knew how that could have come across. We are the same age, and though I'm not necessarily scrawny, I am very petite, and the gentleman who sat next to me was at least a foot taller so it was intimidating at the same time. Your experience sounds dreadful I'm glad it didn't escalate.

I feel especially irritated by my experience because nothing really actually happened. If I shorten the story it comes down to "a man sat next to me on the train" which is a stupid reason to be uncomfortable and feel bad.

Thing is, in the past, I have had several occasions where far worse altercations bordering on actual assault have occurred and for some reason, because of the time of day, the different situation, I've had no problems defending myself verbally and making a quick decision to get out of dodge.

I don't know what made me freeze, and I think there is something about being made to feel vulnerable in broad daylight with many people around that makes it worse somehow. I think I was almost embarrassed that it happened at all.

Fortunately I haven't seen Squishy McSitsonyou since, but I find myself prepping to move just in case every time the train stops there.
 

Baxenden Bank

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I think the point is, the train was pretty quiet, yet the bloke sat in the next seat and squeezed up close. That is wrong. Whatever his underlying reasons / issues / motives, other people ought (have the right) to feel safe when travelling.

My advice - get up and move. It feels wrong, why should you when you're settled and comfortable and the other person is causing the problem but, in this specific set of circumstances, it's perhaps the easier option. If you're a confident person, and there are other people nearby, challenge him. But, as suggested above, the discussion may fall on stony ground if the transgressor doesn't have the mental / social skills to realise his behaviour is the problem. It's called 'care in the community'.

Advice when travelling on the underground, if groped, was to grab the hand and shout out 'whose hand is this?'. Not sure if anyone ever did it though!

If your situation happens again, or you see the same thing happening to someone else, tell the guard.

Just sitting in the same seating bay when others are available could be seen (by stereotypical English reserved types) as being strange behaviour but some individuals feel more comfortable in the presence of others, rather than being alone at the end of a carriage. But there are limits!

I was once on a bus with perhaps 3 other passengers. A fourth person got on and 'went off on one' because someone was sat in her seat, she had to have that seat, could not possibly sit in any other seat! All for a journey of 2 minutes!
 

Greenback

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Technically, a passenger is entitled to sit in any vacant seat. In reality, the majority of us like to keep as much personal space around us as is possible. It's not usual for us Brits to want to sit next to someone else when alternatives are available, but it's not exactly an offence.

I'm more concerned about the squeezing up close aspect. I can understand why this might any passenger, particularly a female on her own, feel vulnerable and threatened, and leave her not wanting to confront the behaviour directly.

I recommend avoidance tactics along with reporting the person in question to a member of train crew should the opportunity arise. The most important thing for em would be to ensure I didn't find myself in the same position again.
 

colchesterken

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I was sitting in the three seats next to the window on a 321 the other day. I looked at the width of each seat opposite if you compare the size of the seat with the average person there is just not enough room
I am not oversized but you could not get my width at shoulder level in the seat what we need is 2+2 on all new trains with wider seats
No! as an OAP with railcard I cannot afford the big seats in 1 st class
 

Greenback

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There is always likely to be some kind of physical contact on full and overcrowded trains. Such is the nature of the beast and some vile individuals have been playing for that for years, especially on the tube.

It's clearly not an accident when there are plenty of seats available and someone chooses to get closer than they should.
 

Deepgreen

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I would just ask him if he had a problem and tell him to sod off. Being a northern ex prop forward that tends to work, especially with the cockneys ;)

Good for you (and my approach would be the same), but the OP has already said that she is a non-confrontational female of short stature, so prop-forward techniques may not help her.
 

paulfoel

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OP - sounds terrible. Does sound like the guy had some motive for this.

BUT, I try not to sit near the doors these days. Its amazing how many people get "train flap" and will plonk down next to you on the first seat when its an empty train just because its the first one they see. Its as they;re on a plane and if they dont get sat down now it wont take off!

In your case though, it sounds dodgy.
 
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That sounds horrible, it's difficult because unless you want a confrontation what is there you can do? At least they *may* have the excuse of being drunk. But it doesn't sound stupid. I don't think they knew how that could have come across. We are the same age, and though I'm not necessarily scrawny, I am very petite, and the gentleman who sat next to me was at least a foot taller so it was intimidating at the same time. Your experience sounds dreadful I'm glad it didn't escalate.

I feel especially irritated by my experience because nothing really actually happened. If I shorten the story it comes down to "a man sat next to me on the train" which is a stupid reason to be uncomfortable and feel bad.

Thing is, in the past, I have had several occasions where far worse altercations bordering on actual assault have occurred and for some reason, because of the time of day, the different situation, I've had no problems defending myself verbally and making a quick decision to get out of dodge.

I don't know what made me freeze, and I think there is something about being made to feel vulnerable in broad daylight with many people around that makes it worse somehow. I think I was almost embarrassed that it happened at all.

Fortunately I haven't seen Squishy McSitsonyou since, but I find myself prepping to move just in case every time the train stops there.

The only other thing you can do is start looking up really disgusting things on your phone. Porn, gore etc. I tried it once and the person next to me (not a creepy passenger, but he smelled so badly of BO, I was trying not to be sick) just said "You disgust me!" and went to find another seat.

It was a small victory :)
 

341o2

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There is always likely to be some kind of physical contact on full and overcrowded trains. Such is the nature of the beast and some vile individuals have been playing for that for years, especially on the tube.

It's clearly not an accident when there are plenty of seats available and someone chooses to get closer than they should.

There's a term for this...frottage. I'd suggest the OP says in a loud voice designed to carry the length of the train that she is not into frottage, so stop it at once, you creep!
 

61653 HTAFC

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if you are uncomfortable just move. If they are odd report them. They might need help.

This is a valid point. I'm on the autistic spectrum and in my youth I may well have behaved in a way that made others feel uncomfortable. However I've never behaved in a manner comparable to those described by the two female contributors to this thread. If I had and the reaction had been confrontational it would be a lesson that I only needed to learn once!

If I'm boarding a train or bus mid-journey I won't sit next to a woman who is travelling alone, because although I know that I'm not a threat they won't. I'll stand rather than sit next to someone who might feel threatened and that's a small price to pay.
 

fowler9

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Personally I think anyone who gets on a near empty train carriage and sits anywhere near you is odd. That is taking it to the extreme but I know a lot of people who feel the same way. Whilst I fully accept that public transport gets busy, if there is space, use it.
 

paulfoel

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Personally I think anyone who gets on a near empty train carriage and sits anywhere near you is odd. That is taking it to the extreme but I know a lot of people who feel the same way. Whilst I fully accept that public transport gets busy, if there is space, use it.

Exactly. I have no desire to sit next and be touching a stranger for a lenght of time. If theres space dont sit next to me its rude to do so.

If the train is full then its different. There is no choice thats the way it works.
 
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Exactly. I have no desire to sit next and be touching a stranger for a lenght of time. If theres space dont sit next to me its rude to do so.

If the train is full then its different. There is no choice thats the way it works.

I agree, I can understand someone just sitting in a seat if it's the first one the come to, or if they have difficulty getting around. I think "choice" is the key word. It's one thing to sit somewhere because it's the only option, or it's the easiest for you. But to go out of your way to sit somewhere is a different matter.

I like having my personal space, just like many others, and I used to get a later - much fuller - train and have had to stand up with my face in someone else's armpit (no really) and that's fine, we are all in the same boat. I love the fact that my earlier train was somewhat less crowded and I get to sit down, and *usually* no one next to me, or at least no one right next to me ...

The three seaters are ok if the carriage isn't too full because you can usually leave lots of space either side of you for instances like that. But if someone does sit next to you though, with the back of the seat in front of you, then you get completely penned in!

I think if he'd been sitting, just sitting, not trying to squash up to me, I don't think this thread would have happened.

I wonder how many people have had similar odd, or unusual experiences, that aren't necessarily that note worthy, but nevertheless made them feel uncomfortable or unnerved at the time.
 

fowler9

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I agree, I can understand someone just sitting in a seat if it's the first one the come to, or if they have difficulty getting around. I think "choice" is the key word. It's one thing to sit somewhere because it's the only option, or it's the easiest for you. But to go out of your way to sit somewhere is a different matter.

I like having my personal space, just like many others, and I used to get a later - much fuller - train and have had to stand up with my face in someone else's armpit (no really) and that's fine, we are all in the same boat. I love the fact that my earlier train was somewhat less crowded and I get to sit down, and *usually* no one next to me, or at least no one right next to me ...

The three seaters are ok if the carriage isn't too full because you can usually leave lots of space either side of you for instances like that. But if someone does sit next to you though, with the back of the seat in front of you, then you get completely penned in!

I think if he'd been sitting, just sitting, not trying to squash up to me, I don't think this thread would have happened.

I wonder how many people have had similar odd, or unusual experiences, that aren't necessarily that note worthy, but nevertheless made them feel uncomfortable or unnerved at the time.

I've had several. Been on an empty bus and had someone sit next to me. Been on a South Parkway to Preston service which is normally empty (Which is why I get it), sat in the front of 4 empty carraiges furthest from the platform stairs and several times had someone walk up the train and sit in the same bay of seats as me. Goodness knows I would never describe myself as "Normal", who is, but these people are plain odd. I guess they do it to intimidate or for some other bizarre reason, fortunately for me it has never works. Your experience sounds creepy.
 

Ianigsy

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Some people do feel more comfortable travelling alone if there's another person within sight, rather than a completely empty carriage- I've done it myself in Amsterdam when I suspected that somebody was following me and sat down opposite a family group.

To put a slightly different slant on it, as a 6ft tall 17 stone man with occasional shoulder trouble (too much rugby in my formative years!) sometimes I do need to be able to sit straight in the seat on my bus to avoid back problems, and if all the window seats are taken then that's more likely to be next to a woman just because the female physique is generally smaller.
 

Master29

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When not many people are in the carriage I always make a point of deterring people from sitting next to me anyway. To be honest most of us wouldn`t want to be near perfect strangers anyway. I don`t think that`s selfish at all. This guy sitting next to the OP in a virtually empty carriage is just asking for trouble from his point.
 

kermit

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Going back to the original post asking for advice - I see nothing wrong with putting a bag on the middle of a 3 seat row for as long as there are still plenty of other seats as you describe. Keep an eye out for numbers of boarding passengers, and make sure you anticipate the need to move your bag without having to be asked if the train fills up.
Could be a practical way of deterring your assailant.
If he does anything like it again, I suggest speaking to the Police. They may already have information about the man, and be able to help.
 

MonsooN

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The experience of the OP sounds like a very uncomfortable one and it's hard to think of a rational reason why someone would make you feel so uncomfortable like that.

When I use the train, it's usually at a busy time for work and for at least three hours. I always have a seat reservation. If the train is busy, I usually take my reserved seat regardless of if someone is sitting next to it.

Like Ianigsy, I'm also a 6'4" 18-stoner with a rugby player build, but if I ever sit next to someone, I always try to make eye contact and smile to show them I'm not a threat. (I'm also usually in business dress, which helps) I sometimes attempt a little small talk "Looks like it's going to be a busy one!" From the person's reaction, I gauge whether they're friendly, shy or talkative and will then modify my behaviour to adapt. I'm equally happy chatting to a stranger or amusing myself with my laptop tablet or a book.

If I'm the one already sitting, I find that people avoid sitting next to me (probably because of my size) until there is no alternative. Being tall as it's advantages, but when people do sit next to me and I have to straighten my legs up, it can get very uncomfortable after a while. Trains aren't built for tall people :(
 
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