Train services to ferry terminals

[Mcr Warrior]

Which train services to/from UK ferry terminals still attract (in normal circumstances) a decent amount of passenger traffic, and which, by contrast, are scarcely still worth running?

Great reminiscences, but to get back on topic, the focus on this thread was meant to be whether train services to UK ferry terminals were still worthwhile or not, for example, the once a day service for Heysham.

 

[Ken H]

Great reminiscences, but to get back on topic, the focus on this thread was meant to be whether train services to UK ferry terminals were still worthwhile or not, for example, the once a day service for Heysham.

Till recently the Heysham service was a through train from Leeds. Now i think its just from Lancaster. think it came from Stockport some years ago. Not sure why it was a through train from Leeds or Stockport.

 

[AndyW33]

As to why it was a through train from Leeds, that would be because they stuck it onto the end of a Leeds-Morecambe service. Northern have no crews based in the Lancaster area and so the Morecambe shuttle or in this case the Morecambe and Heysham shuttle has been worked by crews from depots such as Skipton, Barrow, Wigan (?), Manchester(various) over the years. The crew bring in a unit from their home base, or the far side of their home base, on a service to Morecambe or Heysham, and then most often double back to Lancaster before taking the unit home again in service. Long ago the unit stayed on the line and the crews came in passenger to change over. This caused utter chaos thanks to unpunctuality, crew shortage, unit failures etc.

 

[L401CJF]

I checked the Stena website after I read this. They tell you to get a taxi to get to the terminal now as the bus no longer operates.

That's interesting, I have seen the bus twice this week, first time outside Hamilton Square station around 0830am on Friday at the stop with 'Stena Line'on the destination, and again yesterday afternoon running around to the ferry terminal.

 

[reb0118]

...........Vlissingen, also in Holland.......

Flushing, to give it its English name, is actually in Zeeland (after which New Zealand is named).

There is still a ferry connection from Vlissingen to Breskens in Zeelandic Flanders.

 

[brompton rail]

Till recently the Heysham service was a through train from Leeds. Now i think its just from Lancaster. think it came from Stockport some years ago. Not sure why it was a through train from Leeds or Stockport.

Heysham service was a through train from Leeds back in the 1960s. Caught it once to connect with the ferry to Belfast.

 

[mailbyrail]

The Heysham service is a through train from Leeds and return Sundays Only in the new timetable from 14 Sept

 

[Tetchytyke]

The trains have only ever connected with the lunchtime ferry, but I'm sure that for a time, 2 visits were made to Heysham.

Yes, that's right, it shuttled back to Lancaster. One working to take people from the ferry, one to take people to the ferry. They've combined them so now the ferry passengers have more of a wait in Heysham.

A fast car and passenger ferry to Belfast was trialled for a year or two

I'm amazed it never quite worked, because the A75 road to Stranraer/Cairnryan from the south is absolutely awful. I suppose Birkenhead is better for most passengers, but the fact Heysham is miles from anywhere doesn't matter for HGVs.

I see that IoM Steam Packet have ordered a new ship.

Yep, to replace the Ben-my-Chree in mainline service, with the Ben becoming the backup ship. It's needed because, at present, if the Ben or Mannanan fail the only backup is the freight-only MV Arrow.

In fact the Ben is off to Falmouth for a fortnight because its propeller failed in Heysham and can only be properly repaired in dry dock. So Mannanan is covering the passenger runs to Heysham and Arrow is doing the freight. Just as well Covid means there's very little passenger traffic!

 

[30907]

The trains have only ever connected with the lunchtime ferry, but I'm sure that for a time, 2 visits were made to Heysham. (It's a 1 hour round trip to Lancaster.) I also think that rail services were suspended in winter for some years. One train / day now runs all year.

I am sure there were connections with the overnight ferries back in the 80s, though I have a memory that sometimes it was a bus.
The early morning Carlisle-Leeds, previously the 0655 ex Ribblehead, is the successor to a Heysham-Leeds service (ditto the 1919 as was Leeds-Ribblehead) which went around the time the Bentham line service was altered to be worked by RRNE and not shared with RRNW at Carnforth or wherever, so 1990-ish.
Those might have been connections to/from Belfast not Douglas though.

 

[Gathursty]

Heysham is miles from anywhere doesn't matter for HGVs.

Now that the Bay Gateway has been built avoiding the awful Lancaster one-way system, Heysham Port is roughly 20 minutes from M6 J34. I agree in one respect that Heysham is miles from major cities but in terms of being near a Motorway, Heysham is now on par with Bootle and Birkenhead.

 

[paul1609]

I'm amazed it never quite worked, because the A75 road to Stranraer/Cairnryan from the south is absolutely awful. I suppose Birkenhead is better for most passengers, but the fact Heysham is miles from anywhere doesn't matter for HGVs.

Id imagine that most of the traffic "from the south" goes via Holyhead/ Dublin. From anywhere south of Preston the combined road mileage to Holyhead and Dublin to Belfast is less than via Stranraer.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can posters please note that this thread is to discuss the current situation re train services to ferry terminals in the UK.

I have moved some posts that were more of an historic / reminiscing nature to this thread:

General reminiscences about train to ferry travel

moderator note : posts #1-#13 originally in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/train-services-to-ferry-terminals.206194/ I have fond memories of the very easy interchange from train to SeaCat at Folkestone harbour. It was quite a popular route with day trip foot passengers in...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[WesternBiker]

Surely it's just Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde Pier Head that provides through rail to ferry foot passenger traffic these days? There are many services (under normal circumstances), many through fares, and it's within easy reach of London and other sizeable origin / destination markets in the south east. Ryde Pier Head had 155,000 interchanges in 2018/19 (latest data on ORR website), plus also 204,000 station entries / exits (most of whom must surely have been either travelling onwards by train on IoW, or arrived by train at Portsmouth Harbour - you can't get a rail fare for the ferry only (it wouldn't be in the ORR's data). So that is perhaps 300,000 a year, or 600 a day (roughly).

An oddity of through ticketing at Portsmouth Harbour is (as I discovered having booked Farnborough to Brading) that there are separate fares to go via the high-speed ferry from Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde, and the Hovercraft from Southsea to Ryde - with the latter being about £5 cheaper. So unless you specify it when you book, you can arrive at Portsmouth Harbour finding that your ticket requires you to get the connecting bus to the hoverport in Southsea. Fortunately the ticket office at Portsmouth Harbour were very understanding ("it happens all the time - they naturally offer you the cheapest fare") and changed the ticket to the FastCat.

 

[hermit]

I know several visitors to the island who’ve been caught like this. Unless it’s been changed, the wording on the ticket says that you may use the hovercraft, but does not make it clear that you may not use the Wightlink catamaran. I’ve just checked on my usual ticketing website (Cross Country), and the message is the same.

On being rebuffed at the Wightlink barrier, a friend of mine recently decided to shell out for a separate ferry ticket, rather than rush back to the station ticket office to change his rail ticket, which would have caused him to miss the catamaran and have to wait at least an hour for the next one.

For those in this position who decide to continue to the hovercraft, the fact that the connecting bus now calls at Portsmouth Harbour as well as Portsmouth and Southsea makes life a bit easier.

 

[Ianno87]

An oddity of through ticketing at Portsmouth Harbour is (as I discovered having booked Farnborough to Brading) that there are separate fares to go via the high-speed ferry from Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde, and the Hovercraft from Southsea to Ryde - with the latter being about £5 cheaper. So unless you specify it when you book, you can arrive at Portsmouth Harbour finding that your ticket requires you to get the connecting bus to the hoverport in Southsea. Fortunately the ticket office at Portsmouth Harbour were very understanding ("it happens all the time - they naturally offer you the cheapest fare") and changed the ticket to the FastCat.

Although it's cheaper, the Hovercraft is more sensitive to disruption in bad weather.

 

[WesternBiker]

Although it's cheaper, the Hovercraft is more sensitive to disruption in bad weather.

That's true - I guess my real point is that it is markedly less convenient for rail passengers at either end - so it seems odd to offer it in preference on the NR website and how it is shown on booking office computers (which is effectively what making it cheaper does).

 

[cactustwirly]

Yes, that's right, it shuttled back to Lancaster. One working to take people from the ferry, one to take people to the ferry. They've combined them so now the ferry passengers have more of a wait in Heysham.



I'm amazed it never quite worked, because the A75 road to Stranraer/Cairnryan from the south is absolutely awful. I suppose Birkenhead is better for most passengers, but the fact Heysham is miles from anywhere doesn't matter for HGVs.



Yep, to replace the Ben-my-Chree in mainline service, with the Ben becoming the backup ship. It's needed because, at present, if the Ben or Mannanan fail the only backup is the freight-only MV Arrow.

In fact the Ben is off to Falmouth for a fortnight because its propeller failed in Heysham and can only be properly repaired in dry dock. So Mannanan is covering the passenger runs to Heysham and Arrow is doing the freight. Just as well Covid means there's very little passenger traffic!

The Ben isn't that old, launched in 1998. The Mont St Michel (Portsmouth to Caen ferry) is built by the same ship builders and only a few years newer. Although more intensively worked it is very reliable, and there are no plans to replace it.

 

[Gloster]

Regarding #188 (I can’t work out how to do move the section that I am referring to down):
The A75 bridge at Dunragit used to be the most bashed bridge in Britain, getting almost as many appearances on Classic FM as The Lark Ascending. A friend commented that it might not be unconnected to grandfather rights for the size of vehicle that some older Irish drivers could drive, something that I have been unable to check.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That's true - I guess my real point is that it is markedly less convenient for rail passengers at either end - so it seems odd to offer it in preference on the NR website and how it is shown on booking office computers (which is effectively what making it cheaper does).

Much less convenient at the Portsmouth end I understand, but how is it less convenient at the Ryde end? I thought the hovercraft terminal is pretty close to Esplanade station - and if you destination is actually Ryde, then it's presumably more convenient since you don't have to walk/train from Pier Head.

I will give you that the two different tickets is confusing - took me quite a while to work out what I was buying and what the cheapest ticket was last time I travelled to Ryde by rail (not helped by that there isn't a very obvious way on journey planners to specify you want the one or the other - you can do it using the 'via' option but I wouldn't say that's obvious unless you really know what you're doing).

 

[Gloster]

Regarding #199: the Hoverspeed terminal is right next to Ryde Esplanade station and the bus station, but they are connected by a fairly steep (IMHO - which I hope means In My Humble Opinion) footbridge over the line, otherwise it is a long walk.

 

[pompeyfan]

I think it’s fair to say the hovercraft is good for those being collected by car or finishing their journey at Ryde, the cat is more convenient for those travelling to anywhere further down the line than St John’s road.

as has been mentioned, it is a steep narrow footbridge to access Ryde interchange.