Train services to ferry terminals

[Tetchytyke]

I always try to travel that way but tickets are often not available.

From what I've been told, the Steam Packet sometimes have a tendency to restrict sail-rail numbers, but sail-only foot passenger tickets are more plentiful. Alhough they are not always very cheap, but then nothing about the Steam Packet is cheap.

 

[alangla]

Not since 2011 it hasn't.

Yep, very much a was since Stena moved to Cairnryan. The transfer bus for Stena now runs from Ayr station.

 

[vlad]

Back in The Day trains ran to Ramsgate to connect with the ferries. The station and port are some distance away so at least a coach was provided when I did that. The port is pretty much moribund now of course....

Am I the only person here who's been to Heysham Port to visit Heysham village? Unfortunately I had to travel the further distance to Morecambe on the way back due to the lack of trains to the former!

 

[The Planner]

They did - when built Olau Britannia and Hollandia were built they were probably the best ferries in NW Europe.

Certainly were! I can remember many moons ago doing an all in one sail and rail deal from Sheerness to Efteling theme park.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Which train services to/from UK ferry terminals still attract (in normal circumstances) a decent amount of passenger traffic, and which, by contrast, are scarcely still worth running?

Certainly were! I can remember many moons ago doing an all in one sail and rail deal from Sheerness to Efteling theme park.

Interesting stuff, but we are perhaps drifting a little off topic, as per my original post.

 

[tony6499]

Cheers - when did that stop? I recall ( no doubt wrongly) we went straight from the train to the Dieppe boat.

Seaford train crew shut at the beginning of 1994 as a result of the loss of the boat trains so I'd guess sometime around then

 

[158820]

Sail Rail tickets issued in Ireland. i.e. Rosslare Harbour to Cardiff. Or Dublin Port to Chester. Do these count in the Fishguard Hbr or Holyhead stats?

 

[Class 170101]

Hawich International maybe

0715 & 2045 Harwich Int-London LS and 1738, 1848, 1932 & 2102 return. There is also 0750 Harwich Int-Cambridge and 1947 return, which I understand used to run from Manchester or beyond says https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/the-north-country-continental.202833/

Still runs in addition to the about there is the 06:38 Liverpool Street to Harwich Town (calls at Harwich International) - this is the morning boat train. The 17:38, 18:48 and 21:02 aren't boat trains although I believe you still can make the boat by boarding the 21:02 ex Liverpool Street. Not many people tend to use it now except for a small number of weekends per year. When the Cross Country one ran to Manchester and Glasgow I don't think it went via Cambridge but instead direct to Ely.

Interesting, thinking back the train I took from Liverpool St back in 2012 maybe was a special boat train, though as it was a 321 it didn't feel very special

Hasn't been an Intercity set for over 10 years and won't ever be again. I think the last time it was that it was an Intercity it ran as the 17:27 Liverpool Street to Harwich International calling at Colchester for the commuters and 19:30 Harwich International to Liverpool Street.

I'm sure you can get rail sail tickets from any GA station to any NS Dutch station including the ferry from Harwich?

Updated recently, I seem to recall, to reflect tram operation on the Dutch side vice railway as it was previously.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Back in The Day trains ran to Ramsgate to connect with the ferries. The station and port are some distance away so at least a coach was provided when I did that. The port is pretty much moribund now of course....

Am I the only person here who's been to Heysham Port to visit Heysham village? Unfortunately I had to travel the further distance to Morecambe on the way back due to the lack of trains to the former!

I used Heysham Harbour to walk in the opposite direction to the village - round Sunderland Point and back along the tidal causeway. The train was on a Saturday, not particularly busy, and I think I was the only one not taking the ferry. I have relatives who live on the headland and can watch the boats coming and going.

 

[Quakers Yard]

Other ferries..a bit of a walk but doable:
Fratton for Eastney ferry to Hayling Island
Plymouth for Mount Edgcumbe
Devonport for Torpoint
Totnes for the other Dartmouth ferry

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Would the Calais Day-tripper ticket count? Anywhere on Southeastern to Dover and then the ferry across to Calais.

I also remember a promotion called "Go French", which was using any of the regular service trains or boat trains from London to Newhaven Stations, Folkestone Harbour or Central and Dover Priory or Marine-Western Docks. (& If necessary station to port buses &VV, in England & France) Then the ferry or hovercraft to Calais, Boulogne or Dieppe. They were a great day out. I think they also included the rail fare from the Southeast/Central/Southwestern Area to London to get the mainline train to the seaports. (I Know it confused the ticket man at my local Station.) This would have been in the mid to late 1970s-early 1980s. My friends and I did a few of those trips, often going out by Hovercraft and back on the Sealink Ferry so we had time for a meal on board the ship. (Hengist was a good vessel, it was quite new at that time)



I think I remember in Scotland, that there was station at Balloch Pier which is not there any more? I presume it was mainly used for passengers from the Glasgow area for Loch Lomond boat trips.

I was on a small group tour in Western Scotland some years ago and we did the Jacobite steam train from Fort William to Mallaig, then after a lunch break in a good eatery**, we caught the Ferry over to Skye. **Members of our group who chose to have Fish & Chips had to watch out for Gulls who would try to nick their grub.

 

[unlevel42]

Stranraer is one that is used quite a bit for port traffic.

The rail connection for the NI ferries is Ayr and a connecting and often busy bus to the terminals at Cairnryan.
There are regular and often busy through coaches between Belfast an Glasgow.
Do not use Stranraer as the train and timetable are sparse and unlinked.

 

[XAM2175]

Mention of the connecting services to the continent from Harwich reminded me of this gem of a picture from Birmingham New Street in 1986:

Spoiler: Image Description

Solari display showing a scheduled departure:
Time 16:10
Platform 10
NORWICH
Calling at:
Nuneaton, Hinckley, Leicester, Melton Mowbray, Oakham, Stamford, Peterborough, March, Thetford, Norwich. Change at Peterborough for: Harwich Parkeston Quay for Hook of Holland, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Berlin, Moskva, Hamburg, Kobenhavn, Koln, Frankfurt, Basel, Zurich. Light refreshments available.

Ardrossan Harbour ( is it EVER sunny there?)

Of the numerous times I've been it was sunny there once in the spring of 2017!
Naturally that was the time I was going hiking on Arran and got burned to a crisp

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Stranraer is one that is used quite a bit for port traffic.

The rail connection for the NI ferries is Ayr and a connecting and often busy bus to the terminals at Cairnryan.
There are regular and often busy through coaches between Belfast an Glasgow.
Do not use Stranraer as the train and timetable are sparse and unlinked.

However, the train from Ayr to Stranraer goes over some spectacular scenery. A taxi from Stranraer to Cairnryan is about £7 if you book ahead. I'd definitely recommend this route if the train times work out.

 

[DarloRich]

Of the numerous times I've been it was sunny there once in the spring of 2017!
Naturally that was the time I was going hiking on Arran and got burned to a crisp

There is no way that is Ardrossan I have HONESTLY never been there without sideways sandblasting rain or heavy fog.

 

[BayPaul]

Interesting stuff, but we are perhaps drifting a little off topic, as per my original post.

Trying to make a summary to answer the original OP's question, I would say the following rail services exist mainly or significantly for the ferries:

• Morecambe - Heysham Port. ~7000 passengers per year, only a couple of trains per day, only 2 ferry crossings per day, with limited passenger capacity, and foot passengers generally directed via Liverpool.
• Ardrossan branch: ~130,000 passengers per year to the harbour station, compared to only ~20,000 to Ardrossan Town, so around 85% ferry passengers. A total of around 850,000 passengers use the ferry, so around 15% of them arrive by train.
• Fishguard branch: ~14000 passengers per year to Fishguard Port, and ~20000 other passengers from Fishguard & Goodwick, so around 40% ferry passengers.
• Lymington branch: ~140,000 passengers per year to pier station, and 270,000 to town, so around 33% ferry passengers. The train is half hourly, and the ferry has been reduced to hourly.
• Weymss Bay Line: ~210,000 passengers from Weymss Bay, probably most of them for the ferry, which carries around 700,000 per year. Around 300,000 from the other stations on the line, so probably 30% for the ferry.
• Mallaig branch: The ferries from Mallaig carry around 300,000 passengers per year total (including vehicle and other non-train passengers). ~98,000 rail passengers into the station per year, difficult to estimate %'
• Harwich branch: ~110,000 passengers per year to the International station, most of whom are presumably for the ferry, around 400,000 to the other stations on the branch, so around 25% for the ferry

For other lines such as Gourock, Portsmouth Harbour, Holyhead and Oban, even the terminus station probably has less than 50% ferry traffic - taking Gourock as an example, 500,000 passengers use the station per year, but there are only 300,000 on the Calmac ferry, some of which won't be taking the train.

I would say that Heysham and Fishguard probably fall under the 'scarecly worth running' category, with all of the others very much worth running.

 

[berneyarms]

Trying to make a summary to answer the original OP's question, I would say the following rail services exist mainly or significantly for the ferries:

• Morecambe - Heysham Port. ~7000 passengers per year, only a couple of trains per day, only 2 ferry crossings per day, with limited passenger capacity, and foot passengers generally directed via Liverpool.
• Ardrossan branch: ~130,000 passengers per year to the harbour station, compared to only ~20,000 to Ardrossan Town, so around 85% ferry passengers. A total of around 850,000 passengers use the ferry, so around 15% of them arrive by train.
• Fishguard branch: ~14000 passengers per year to Fishguard Port, and ~20000 other passengers from Fishguard & Goodwick, so around 40% ferry passengers.
• Lymington branch: ~140,000 passengers per year to pier station, and 270,000 to town, so around 33% ferry passengers. The train is half hourly, and the ferry has been reduced to hourly.
• Weymss Bay Line: ~210,000 passengers from Weymss Bay, probably most of them for the ferry, which carries around 700,000 per year. Around 300,000 from the other stations on the line, so probably 30% for the ferry.
• Mallaig branch: The ferries from Mallaig carry around 300,000 passengers per year total (including vehicle and other non-train passengers). ~98,000 rail passengers into the station per year, difficult to estimate %'
• Harwich branch: ~110,000 passengers per year to the International station, most of whom are presumably for the ferry, around 400,000 to the other stations on the branch, so around 25% for the ferry

For other lines such as Gourock, Portsmouth Harbour, Holyhead and Oban, even the terminus station probably has less than 50% ferry traffic - taking Gourock as an example, 500,000 passengers use the station per year, but there are only 300,000 on the Calmac ferry, some of which won't be taking the train.

I would say that Heysham and Fishguard probably fall under the 'scarecly worth running' category, with all of the others very much worth running.

But the question remains, do the numbers for Fishguard Harbour include Sail/Rail tickets from and to Rosslare? Granted the numbers are still going to be relatively small, but that figure above could be understated.

 

[unlevel42]

The rail connection for the NI ferries is Ayr and a connecting and often busy bus to the terminals at Cairnryan.
There are regular and often busy through coaches between Belfast an Glasgow.
Do not use Stranraer as the train and timetable are sparse and unlinked.

Absolutely correct and would recommend this scenic route however I wanted to get to Belfast at a reasonable hour and at best, the connections, times and availability of the Taxi plus arrival time in Belfast is not reliable/convenient.
Alternatives for enthusiasts is to catch the first train down to Stranraer and either return north to Girvan then coach (costal scenic) south to Cairnryan or local bus Stranraer to Stena for Belfast or PO for Larne terminals.

 

[BayPaul]

But the question remains, do the numbers for Fishguard Harbour include Sail/Rail tickets from and to Rosslare? Granted the numbers are still going to be relatively small, but that figure above could be understated.

My gut feel would be that they probably do. If they didn't I wouldn't have thought the numbers would be as high as this, as there really isn't any reason for going to Fishguard Harbour station unless it is to connect with a ferry, and I would imagine that most people connecting by train to a ferry in Fishguard would book a combined ticket - perhaps I am completely wrong with this assumption though.

 

[paul1609]

The rail connection for the NI ferries is Ayr and a connecting and often busy bus to the terminals at Cairnryan.
There are regular and often busy through coaches between Belfast an Glasgow.
Do not use Stranraer as the train and timetable are sparse and unlinked.
However, the train from Ayr to Stranraer goes over some spectacular scenery. A taxi from Stranraer to Cairnryan is about £7 if you book ahead. I'd definitely recommend this route if the train times work out.

Ive never been on the ferry itself but Ive sporadically driven minibuses to and from Cairnryan passenger terminal usually at times of air disruption. I'm sure the railbus does have its busy times but generally its lucky to make double figures in the number of passengers which is presumably why its been reduced to a once a day. The NI ferry generally doesn't appear to have much in the way of foot passengers at all and what they do are generally picked up/ dropped off by car. I cant comment on the through coaches.

 

[paul1609]

That depends what you mean by ‘decent amount’

Based on absolutely no evidence but a hunch, I’d say that Portsmouth Harbour sees the greatest number of ferry passengers interchanging, but that the stations with the highest proportion of ferry passengers will be Mallaig and Fishguard Harbour, but both on very low numbers.

(I’m excluding the IoW line for this).

Id rather imagine that Portsmouth Harbour probably has more passengers interchanging for the Gosport Ferry which in normal times carries 7000 passengers a day than most of the Scots ferries.

 

[mackeral1234]

Under 10,000 rail passengers a year according to latest available statistics, but there again, Heysham Port station does, normally, only receive the one service per day.

But there isn’t much ferry traffic either to be far...
One of the Isle of Man services arrives around 11.15pm if I remember right (I’ve been on it)

 

[unlevel42]

Ive never been on the ferry itself but Ive sporadically driven minibuses to and from Cairnryan passenger terminal usually at times of air disruption. I'm sure the railbus does have its busy times but generally its lucky to make double figures in the number of passengers which is presumably why its been reduced to a once a day. The NI ferry generally doesn't appear to have much in the way of foot passengers at all and what they do are generally picked up/ dropped off by car. I cant comment on the through coaches.

Which passenger terminal?
Both terminals are busy with coaches.
Regular service between Ireland/Northern Ireland and Scotland
Football coaches.
Minibuses.
Excursions and other organised groups and Day.
Holiday coaches.
Most bus and railway ticket travellers (inc Sail Rail) uses the more extensive interchange facilities at the Stena for Belfast terminal.
P&O is less independent traveller minded.

 

[BayPaul]

But there isn’t much ferry traffic either to be far...
One of the Isle of Man services arrives around 11.15pm if I remember right (I’ve been on it)

The timings for the Heysham ferry are built around the needs of the freight companies. The key sailing is probably the 02:15 departure from Heysham, getting into Douglas at 06:00 - the perfect time for freight heading to shops. The other sailings are built around this schedule. The Liverpool sailings are the main ones timed for passengers' convenience.

 

[paul1609]

Which passenger terminal?
Both terminals are busy with coaches.
Regular service between Ireland/Northern Ireland and Scotland
Football coaches.
Minibuses.
Excursions and other organised groups and Day.
Holiday coaches.
Most bus and railway ticket travellers (inc Sail Rail) uses the more extensive interchange facilities at the Stena for Belfast terminal.
P&O is less independent traveller minded.

This is the one I drive to/ from https://www.stenaline.co.uk/routes/cairnryan-belfast/cairnryan-port. Before admittedly in winter, I've arrived 45 mins before the ferry and had to bang on the door to get it opened so I could use the loo!

 

[D6975]

Am I the only person here who's been to Heysham Port to visit Heysham village? Unfortunately I had to travel the further distance to Morecambe on the way back due to the lack of trains to the former!

No, I went to the village too. Mainly to visit the place that sells nettle beer. I walked back to Morecambe, a fair hike but very pleasant for the bulk of the route.

 

[route101]

There is no way that is Ardrossan I have HONESTLY never been there without sideways sandblasting rain or heavy fog.

Come to think of it , every time ive got the ferry from there its sunny , i do live an hour away and went on good weather days

 

[route101]

This is the one I drive to/ from https://www.stenaline.co.uk/routes/cairnryan-belfast/cairnryan-port. Before admittedly in winter, I've arrived 45 mins before the ferry and had to bang on the door to get it opened so I could use the loo!

Yes , plenty of coaches going to Rangers and Celtic games.

 

[ashkeba]

[...] When the Cross Country one ran to Manchester and Glasgow I don't think it went via Cambridge but instead direct to Ely.


Hasn't been an Intercity set for over 10 years and won't ever be again. [...]

Yes, it was a good decision to divert the truncated North Country Continental to Cambridge where at least some visitors can have most of the day in a trip attracting city instead of standing in a windy Ely for connections - and since class 755 was introduced, the Cambridge boat train is closer to InterCity spec than the London one!

But never say never about London boat trains becoming InterCity again because 755 running to Harwich means it would not seem a difficult change to send a 745 there from London if demand rose, maybe if air travel becomes even less attractive.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Which passenger terminal?
Both terminals are busy with coaches.
Regular service between Ireland/Northern Ireland and Scotland
Football coaches.
Minibuses.
Excursions and other organised groups and Day.
Holiday coaches.
Most bus and railway ticket travellers (inc Sail Rail) uses the more extensive interchange facilities at the Stena for Belfast terminal.
P&O is less independent traveller minded.

Both Stena and P&O line are only served by public transport at the Scottish end by the local bus service and the Ayr SailRail coach.

On the Northern Irish side, P&O is arguably much better connected, with an hourly train to Belfast Great Victoria Street even during Covid-19! Whereas the Stena Line terminal is only served by a sporadic bus.