Train sets trapped in Devon and Cornwall

[PhilipW]

With the collapse of the sea wall at Dawlish and the prospect of the line not being re=opened for many weeks, if not months, I was wondering how many train sets are, in effect, trapped in Devon and Cornwall, in particular HST sets and Cross Country Voyager sets.

I realise that this is early days and this information may not be available yet, but if anyone gets any information over the coming days it would be appreciated if they could post it here.

Thanks

 

[work-traveller]

Presumably one of the sleeper services is in the isolated section as well.

 

[tsr]

And, of course, some coaches of the Sleeper sets may carry "regular" passengers instead of overnight customers, if need be. I wonder if it is practical to allow further daytime services to run using these.

 

[Rich McLean]

I imagine FGW will carry out a large Low Loader operation over the coming weeks in order to ensure that the correct amount of sets are either side, and maintenance facilities are set up at Laira for DMUs in the short term.

XC may end also doing a low load operation in order to change Voyager Sets around. It could get interesting on the A38 Devon Expressway in the coming weeks

 

[ainsworth74]

and maintenance facilities are set up at Laira for DMUs in the short term.

Long Rock at Penzance can handle DMUs can't it?

One good thing about this situation is that at least there are two depots in the cut off portion of the network to deal with the trains!

 

[Rich McLean]

Long Rock at Penzance can handle DMUs can't it?

One good thing about this situation is that at least there are two depots in the cut off portion of the network to deal with the trains!

Only Fuel + Water, same as Laira. If units need an exam or major maintance, facilities only exsist for this on the Marsh in Bristol or Exeter

 

[Goatboy]

Only Fuel + Water, same as Laira. If units need an exam or major maintance, facilities only exsist for this on the Marsh in Bristol or Exeter

If its medium term I cannot imagine that it's not reasonably straightforward to equip Laira to exam DMU's. It is, after all, a major traction depot.

 

[fgwrich]

If its medium term I cannot imagine that it's not reasonably straightforward to equip Laira to exam DMU's. It is, after all, a major traction depot.

Agreed, Laira has handled DMUs in the past and seems to be quite good at getting them back into service after fires and other damage incidents. It wouldn't surprise me if FGW are arranging a few vans of spares to be driven down the A38 to Laira.

The damage isn't over yet. With the wall breached there is the likely hood that more of the wall will be damaged and more track washed away.

If more goes there is also the chance of steep cliffs being eroded at the base, potentially for lands slips.

With the weather continuing like this no one can get in to make temporary repairs let alone start fixing it.

Fraid so, there's a even higher tide forecast for tonight and the swell's are also due to increase by the weekend. I fear this is just the start of a host of problems for the GWML over the next few days.

 

[PhilipW]

If the breach is going to be for a lengthy period, it would not surprise me if XC withdrew all their Voyagers and just left it to FGW to provide services between Newton Abbot and Penzance.

If I were running XC, that option would seem quite tempting unless there is some legal/franchise reason why it could not be done.

 

[TEW]

Presumably one of the sleeper services is in the isolated section as well.

One of the sets has been stabled at Long Rock since Monday when the sleepers were first cancelled.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If its medium term I cannot imagine that it's not reasonably straightforward to equip Laira to exam DMU's. It is, after all, a major traction depot.

Well it should certainly have the facilities to do it, it's probably just a case of getting parts and fitters. As someone posted above 150221 was repaired there after it caught fire and 150121 and 150127 were refurbished there.

 

[talltim]

I think I read elsewhere that the there are 4 HSTs + 1 spare power car, some units and a 57 plus seated coaches from the sleeper

 

[fgwrich]

I think I read elsewhere that the there are 4 HSTs + 1 spare power car, some units and a 57 plus seated coaches from the sleeper

Of course the next problem though will not just be how much stock and staff are down there, but also are the lines clear and safe enough for operations to re begin again - i.e falling trees or certain parts of branch lines where the line runs along cliff edges. And with this weather causing trees down on the roads and flooding as well, I cant imagine many bus services will be running either - not at least while it's like this anyway. But I've no doubt FGW and Network Rail will no doubt persevere and manage some services to run through, even if it's to a revised timetable - perhaps the Night Riviera seated set could be usefull too?

 

[Goatboy]

If 4 HSTs are stuck down there, is there enough slack in the fleet to allow them to stay there or is there a need to move them by road ?

It sounds like the most sensible short term plan would be for a fast road link between Plymouth and Tiverton Parkway, with trains terminating at/starting from Exeter St Davids. Plymouth to Tiverton by road is slightly less time than it is by rail, so journey time impact is negligable.

If they opt to bus between Newton Abbot and Exeter getting into and out of Exeter plus not benefiting from the time saving up the A38 will ensure journey time increases.

 

[LeylandLen]

So what about the freight situation ? Presumably some locomotives freight wagons and stock needed elsewhere on the network are 'trapped' west of Dawlish ? Obviously mail and any consumer items will now have to go by road for the foreseeable future . No doubt they want to get it all fixed by Easter Holidays ten weeks away next weekend. Met office say this run of bad weather could last all February.

I don't know the geography of Dawlish apart from what I see on Google maps.
Is it feasible to divert the railway line away from the sea ,to the west of Dawlish ??

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Obviously mail and any consumer items will now have to go by road for the foreseeable future

How much mail and consumer traffic is carried by rail between Cornwall and the rest of the country?

 

[LateThanNever]

So what about the freight situation ? Presumably some locomotives freight wagons and stock needed elsewhere on the network are 'trapped' west of Dawlish ? Obviously mail and any consumer items will now have to go by road for the foreseeable future . No doubt they want to get it all fixed by Easter Holidays ten weeks away next weekend. Met office say this run of bad weather could last all February.

I don't know the geography of Dawlish apart from what I see on Google maps.
Is it feasible to divert the railway line away from the sea ,to the west of Dawlish ??

No mail by train any more in this part of the world! Don't think there's any freight either.

And it is not really feasible to divert the railway because you have to tunnel through Dartmoor granite and that would probably cost even more than repairing the sea wall! Though of course it would be a long term fix. But I get the impression that whilst there is money for HS2 there isn't for what are considered mere local projects. Only a bit less than a million (a couple of London Boroughs) people live 'beyond' Dawlish - although must be about three times that in high summer ...

 

[sprinterguy]

So what about the freight situation ? Presumably some locomotives freight wagons and stock needed elsewhere on the network are 'trapped' west of Dawlish ? Obviously mail and any consumer items will now have to go by road for the foreseeable future .

Freight traffic West of Exeter is sparse to begin with, and mail stopped being transported into Devon and Cornwall at least a decade ago. Nor am I aware of any regular intermodal traffic that would typically convey any "consumer items".

 

[HowardGWR]

So what about the freight situation ? Presumably some locomotives freight wagons and stock needed elsewhere on the network are 'trapped' west of Dawlish ? Obviously mail and any consumer items will now have to go by road for the foreseeable future . No doubt they want to get it all fixed by Easter Holidays ten weeks away next weekend. Met office say this run of bad weather could last all February.

I don't know the geography of Dawlish apart from what I see on Google maps.
Is it feasible to divert the railway line away from the sea ,to the west of Dawlish ??

No (unless you have some TBMs going spare).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I expect there are some qualifiers. I guess this is indeed probably the worst sea-related and maybe the worst weather-related disruption they have faced (and their predecessors) for a significant period of time - and I don't envy those faced with having to do the repairs. When they say "biggest job", I'm not so sure. Things like the Hatfield & Stainforth ground movement were on a pretty large scale, as an example.

There is a picture of the same thing happening in Brunel's time, so it's not exactly a surprise.

 

[CallySleeper]

How much mail and consumer traffic is carried by rail between Cornwall and the rest of the country?

Mail to/from Devon is transported only by road and air.

 

[Gathursty]

Would it now be a good idea to produce and run an emergency timetable on the Okehampton branch in order to facilitate the movement of people who need to get to Cornwall by way of the A30?

 

[The Planner]

Wouldn't be very frequent, Crediton to Okehampton/Meldon is one train working on the 18 mile section at 40mph (assuming the non NR bit is that speed) so I doubt you would get much more than a round trip in 60-70 mins.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The following units are currently trapped between Penzance and Newton Abbot:

Class 150: 150122, 150125, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150202 and 150219
Class 153: 153305, 153329, 153369, 153372, 153377
Class 220: 220013, 220014
Class 221: 221127, 221134

 

[LeylandLen]

I believe there are a few quarries west of Dawlish that use rail, not forgetting the Cornwall China clay from near Fowey plus Lafarge have a Cement Terminal near Liskeard unless its all closed recently ??

 

[fgwrich]

Freight traffic West of Exeter is sparse to begin with, and mail stopped being transported into Devon and Cornwall at least a decade ago. Nor am I aware of any regular intermodal traffic that would typically convey any "consumer items".

There's not much these days sadly, with most of the traffic either being engineering trains to Hackney Yard (Newton Abbot) or to Tavistock Yard, the weekly Burngullow Sand, St Blazey Fuel - DB Tripworked with the China Clay, and the Colas Rail operated Teigngrace Timber traffic.

I wonder if the timber traffic could be temporarily operated from Exeter's Riverside Yard though - It's been completely upgraded and renewed for the Whiteball blockcade so could and should be useable, but you'd need the road hauliers to be able to haul the logs from Teigngrace across the A380 and down into Exeter.

 

[DarloRich]

So what about the freight situation ? Presumably some locomotives freight wagons and stock needed elsewhere on the network are 'trapped' west of Dawlish ? Obviously mail and any consumer items will now have to go by road for the foreseeable future . No doubt they want to get it all fixed by Easter Holidays ten weeks away next weekend. Met office say this run of bad weather could last all February.

I don't know the geography of Dawlish apart from what I see on Google maps.
Is it feasible to divert the railway line away from the sea ,to the west of Dawlish ??

There are no mail trains and I don’t think any container trains run down that way. I guess there may be a 66 or 2 working on the china clay runs and perhaps a Colas loco off the logs. Add to that any infrastructure trains down that way and you may have a few stranded freight locos.

The wagons off the infrastructure trains will be the most likely to cause trouble for services rather than the straight freight wagons as they are in more demand. I wonder if there are any track machines down that way? That might impact on maintenance work

 

[fgwrich]

I believe there are a few quarries west of Dawlish that use rail, not forgetting the Cornwall China clay from near Fowey plus Lafarge have a Cement Terminal near Liskeard unless its all closed recently ??

No quarried stone by rail in Devon anymore, the last one would have been up at Meldon but even that's now finished. As unfortunately, I believe has the Moorswater Cement traffic.

Rather unlucky to end up with only 1 refurbished 150/2, don't think the /1s are as popular down there with the half hearted interiors.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Assuming that there are 40 odd vehicles that need to be transferred by road how long is that likely to take?

 

[DarloRich]

Assuming that there are 40 odd vehicles that need to be transferred by road how long is that likely to take?

How many wagons have you got? - You will get one trip per day per wagon i should think by the time you arrange all of the positioning, loading, unloading and escort tasks

 

[RichmondCommu]

How many wagons have you got? - You will get one trip per day per wagon i should think by the time you arrange all of the positioning, loading, unloading and escort tasks

Well thats what I was wondering. There can't be that many suitabe wagons in the whole of the UK.

The other concern is that with the line out of action for at least the next month how much of the remaining freight traffic might be lost to road transport?

 

[fgwrich]

Well thats what I was wondering. There can't be that many suitabe wagons in the whole of the UK.

The other concern is that with the line out of action for at least the next month how much of the remaining freight traffic might be lost to road transport?

If were talking Wagons as is railway engineering wagons then most of them would currently be on the Exeter side due to Whiteball. If were talking Wagons road wise then quite possibly not many.

Freight wise I wouldn't worry too much, sadly because there's little that could already be lost to road transport already - how would you get several thousand tonnes of sand into London for example, or several thousand tonnes of either powered or clay slurry up to Irvine either? Or come to think of it CWRR down to Cornwall? Yes Sleepers and Ballast can go by road but it wouldn't be as easy and is unlikely to be lost. There is potential for future railfreight into Devon & Cornwall but nothing set in stone just yet. Just about the only freight that will be lost albeit probably temporarily will be the fuel tanks to St Blazey, but that could be temporarily tacked onto the Long Rock & Laira lorries (as DB now own the tanks, then it'll probably make a return when the sea walls rebuilt).

The Logs however could in theory go by road, but would it be worth it? When the first lot of Log Traffic ran, they originally roaded logs over from both areas around Dartmoor and East Devon to Teigngrace, so as I said in one of my posts above there's little stopping Colas from using Riverside Yard in Exeter as a base and roading the logs to there.