Train Sim World 2

LUYMun

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Yesterday, Dovetail Games announced the upcoming sequel, which will launch on August 6. From their website:
Any thoughts, anyone?

THE EVOLUTION OF TRAIN SIMULATION - COMING 6 AUGUST 2020!
Master iconic locomotives on high-speed services, long freight hauls or precise commuter traffic, and get creative with customisation tools in this advanced sequel. Climb into the cab in Train Sim World 2.

AUTHENTICALLY REPLICATED ROUTES AND LOCOS
Feel the thrill of high-speed inter-city German rail as you push the throttle and climb speeds in the famous DB ICE 3M out of Köln, take on the challenge of hauling long freight across Sand Patch Grade with the CSX AC4400CW, and master the complex operations of the London Underground on the Bakerloo Line. All official licenses, all authentically recreated – you're in the cab and in control.

GET CREATIVE
Personalise your rail journey with two brand new easy-to-use tools. Create your own custom liveries with the Livery Designer that allows you to craft both simple and complex designs to bring your Train Sim World 2 loco liveries to life. Create your own scenario with the Scenario Planner, picking locos and destinations before you jump in and take to the rails - Quick drive, your way.

EXPERIENCE A NEW LEVEL OF REALISM
The proprietary SimuGraph vehicle dynamics engine has evolved – adding realistic adhesion physics for the first time. Feel the slip of wheels in adverse weather, master moving heavy freight and keep control of your loco power on steep inclines! Optimised and upgraded visual fidelity also gives Train Sim World 2 dynamic skies and 4K support.

IMMERSE YOURSELF IN SIMULATION
Get clearer information on instructions, gradient and speed profiles as you drive, including new HUD displays, clarity to the onboard safety systems, brake controls, power meter and accelerometer. A new controller scheme will give great choices on Camera and Driving modes and allows easier access from external camera mode to enter another vehicle in your consist, all while full physics and simulation are still running.

PRESERVE YOUR TRAIN SIM WORLD COLLECTION
Your collection comes with you - You can play your Train Sim World 2020 Add-Ons in Train Sim World 2. Train Sim World has always been about your collection, your choice of Add-Ons from your favourite region, time period, diesel, electric, passenger, freight – your way. Your purchased Train Sim World 2020 Add-Ons will be available to play in Train Sim World 2.
 
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RailUK Forums

Mainline421

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If this was their new Unreal Engine 5/PS5 version that would last another 3 years then I'd be happy to buy it (still on PC of course). But if they're intending to make this an annual thing then I may pass until they actually add some real new features. Honestly with UE5 and the new generation of consoles right around the corner this seems a very weird time to do this.

Also this seems a very backwards and anti-consumer step for PC players:
  • Can I make a livery or scenario to share or sell?

    The Livery Designer and Scenario Planner do not have sharing options on any platform, so your designs are personal to you alone. These designs or plans are not available to be sold. However, you can photo share your creations through the new Dovetail Live Railfan Shots feature.
 

Giugiaro

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Also, this seems a very backwards and anti-consumer step for PC players:
Must be out of concern for the absolute certainty that the Livery Designer, at least, may be used to share racial, political and sexual graphism.

It took me exactly 12 seconds to find nazi liveries and male genitalia on the Beta for The Crew 2.
 

JohnMcL7

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Looking at the features they're offering now but promising major features later on it feels a premature release whereas if they released the new game with big features like multiplayer it would be much easier to swallow having to buy a new game.

A livery creator is a fantastic addition but it's a real shame and huge waste designs can't be shared. Forza Horizon 4 is one of the biggest racing games there is and it has a livery creator that allows people to share their designs to the community. Some people do share designs that aren't allowed but they get taken down and users banned from the feature while those who contribute popular designs are rewarded for it. Given TSW isn't free to play then banning accounts carries real weight and I'd like to think rule breaking designs would be less of an issue than something like Forza. The quality and variety of the community created liveries are just incredible and are huge bonus to the game, they'd be even more so to a train game.
 

Peter C

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Having read the page, I think it's quite comical, really. Dovetail Games love to keep making new versions of TSW which will be the best thing since sliced bread, yet come out with a completely new version the year after! I know a game needs to be updated, but honestly - we've had Train Sim World, Train Sim World 2020, and now Train Sim World 2 - three times the community (majority of) have given DTG a chance with this new enterprise of theirs and three times we've been given something that looks nice but has no real substance to it.

To go along with the standard thing of steam engines in TSW, I'll say this - the community have been promised time and again that we will be getting steam engines in TSW soon. Four versions of TSW later (Founders Edition, TSW, TSW2020, TSW2), and we're still not seeing them: DTG say they want to do steam engines justice but quite frankly I'm getting sick and tired of hearing the same rhetoric over and over as they keep finding new ways to say the same things.

The recent release of the LNER Class 43 HST for TS2020 looks promising for a link between the two games, in as far as DTG have proven that TSW models for engines can be used in TS2020. This means that we'll probably be seeing new releases for TS2020 with TSW models, but still no core updates for the former - TS2020 has, apart from the 64-bit update last year, never really received a core update which fixes the major issues plaguing it to this day. There are issues which have been around since the Kuju days which haven't been fixed - trains never actually stopping, framerates affecting steam engine injectors, all sorts - in my opinion, I think DTG should be focusing less on TSW, with which I believe they are fighting a pointless battle to get it to be the next big thing time and again, and focus more on TS2020, where reskins, scenarios, routes, trains, assets, etc. can all be made and shared, unlike TSW2.

Just my rambling. :)

-Peter
 
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DTG should be focusing less on TSW, with which I believe they are fighting a pointless battle to get it to be the next big thing
As far as I'm aware, DTG is a for-profit company and not a charity. TSW is more profitable, and even then, the console side of TSW has a larger user base than the PC side. Commercially, it makes more sense to focus on the growing game and platforms than the continue on an engine which is more than certainly outdated and no longer largely profitable.
 

Peter C

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As far as I'm aware, DTG is a for-profit company and not a charity. TSW is more profitable, and even then, the console side of TSW has a larger user base than the PC side. Commercially, it makes more sense to focus on the growing game and platforms than the continue on an engine which is more than certainly outdated and no longer largely profitable.
Fair point - but if they continue to put more effort into making TSW, and they leave TS2020 behind, they will leave behind a large community of people who have put hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds and hours into it, all for it to be worthless in the end. DTG have made a thread on their forums asking for people to submit their main issues with TS2020, so they can find the biggest ones and sort them out - it shows that they are still working on it and if they continue to build on it then surely it can't be that outdated and unprofitable?

-Peter
 

Domh245

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Fair point - but if they continue to put more effort into making TSW, and they leave TS2020 behind, they will leave behind a large community of people who have put hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds and hours into it, all for it to be worthless in the end. DTG have made a thread on their forums asking for people to submit their main issues with TS2020, so they can find the biggest ones and sort them out - it shows that they are still working on it and if they continue to build on it then surely it can't be that outdated and unprofitable?

-Peter
In what sense would people be left behind and their time with TS20xx become worthless? It's not as if suddenly the game will disappear from the surface of the earth if DTG stop working on it, they'll still be able to play it, and (perhaps most importantly) there'll still be people churning content out for it outside of DTG. Drawing parallels with some other popular sim games, Assetto Corsa was released in 2014, was last updated in 2017, but is still very popular (peak of 5404 players in the last 24 hours on Steam) and still has plenty of new content available for it through aftermarket modders (both freeware and paid) - similarly FSX, first released back in 2006 and no official updates for it in something like a decade (barring the re-release through steam also in 2014) has got a vast multitude of content available and is still well played to this day.

Indeed, the ability for people to create their own content for TS20xx is probably one of the better things for DTG, as it means that they can 'officially' support it in terms of churning out DLC for it on steam, but the development of which has been outsourced to third parties such as JustTrains or one of the other multitude of developers.

They really can't do all too much to TS20xx other than tweak around the edges, particularly for maintaining backwards compatibility. Focusing most of their efforts on TSW is the sensible thing to do
 

Peter C

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I think my choice of wording wasn't appropriate - the users' time and money wouldn't become worthless, so to speak.
I'm all for DTG moving with the times, and continuing to innovate and make new things, but seeing as there is such a large community in TS2020, I think it would be a bad decision by DTG to stop support for it entirely. I don't agree with all of the points he makes about certain topics, but I'd say that Alan Thomson does a good job of summing up what needs to be done with TS2020 in this video:

We saw the big shift to 64-bit with TS2019, and I think we could see an update to fix at least some of the biggest issues with TS2020, such as trains never actually staying still (they always move), steam engine injectors being severely affected by frame rates, etc. A lot of TS2020 is still based on EA's Rail Simulator and doesn't hold up in the modern simulation era. Personally, I think it would be better for DTG to fix at least some of the issues with TS2020 before they go into TSW 2. But we all have different opinions and that's fine :)

-Peter
 

Flange Squeal

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I get a bit confused with train simulators these days. Am I right in thinking that Train Simulator 20xx and Train Sim World are made by the same people, but content isn't compatible with both? It sounds like Train Simulator has more content available, but efforts are going into Train Sim World these days?

Just wondering which title people would advise someone with neither should start off with?
 

Peter C

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I get a bit confused with train simulators these days. Am I right in thinking that Train Simulator 20xx and Train Sim World are made by the same people, but content isn't compatible with both? It sounds like Train Simulator has more content available, but efforts are going into Train Sim World these days?

Just wondering which title people would advise someone with neither should start off with?
You're not the only one who's confused! :)
You've hit the nail on the head there - TS2020 and TSW are made by the same people, Dovetail Games, but are completely different from a user's perspective in terms of content.
I say "fron a user's perspective" because DTG have recently shown off that models of engines and units from TSW can essentially be ported over (with quite a bit of work) into TS2020.
If you're just starting out in train sims, I'd say go for TS2020 - the fact that it's been out longer than TSW mean it's got more features and more DLC. But DTG are slowly shifting over to TSW and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years' time if TS20xx received no more updates and TSW was the main thing.

Hope this helps,

-Peter
 

Flange Squeal

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You're not the only one who's confused! :)
You've hit the nail on the head there - TS2020 and TSW are made by the same people, Dovetail Games, but are completely different from a user's perspective in terms of content.
I say "fron a user's perspective" because DTG have recently shown off that models of engines and units from TSW can essentially be ported over (with quite a bit of work) into TS2020.
If you're just starting out in train sims, I'd say go for TS2020 - the fact that it's been out longer than TSW mean it's got more features and more DLC. But DTG are slowly shifting over to TSW and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years' time if TS20xx received no more updates and TSW was the main thing.
Thanks Peter, very useful! I used to be into train simulation growing up, but back then you had a buzzing BVE community for the more realistic in-cab driving experience, and Microsoft Train Simulator for the more 'gaming' side with its exterior views and ability for things like shunting, scenarios and the like. Trainz, Cab View Driver, Mechanik and a few others were also in existance. After discovering new hobbies in my teens, as well as then beginning a career on the railway so less inclined to spend my days off also playing with trains, I kind of drifted. Finding things to do in lockdown saw me see what things were like now and it's all changed. BVE seems much less active but openBVE has introduced external views and animations, and MSTS largely replaced by these new 'Dovetail' sims with new releases seemingly every year. I'm guessing these themselves are an evolution of KUJU Rail Simulator or Railworks, which I think were in development at the time.
 

Peter C

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Thanks Peter, very useful! I used to be into train simulation growing up, but back then you had a buzzing BVE community for the more realistic in-cab driving experience, and Microsoft Train Simulator for the more 'gaming' side with its exterior views and ability for things like shunting, scenarios and the like. Trainz, Cab View Driver, Mechanik and a few others were also in existance. After discovering new hobbies in my teens, as well as then beginning a career on the railway so less inclined to spend my days off also playing with trains, I kind of drifted. Finding things to do in lockdown saw me see what things were like now and it's all changed. BVE seems much less active but openBVE has introduced external views and animations, and MSTS largely replaced by these new 'Dovetail' sims with new releases seemingly every year. I'm guessing these themselves are an evolution of KUJU Rail Simulator or Railworks, which I think were in development at the time.
You're very welcome! :)
I never played BVE when it was really popular, but I have played the odd bit of OpenBVE and it's really cool. For the longest time I played Trainz 2009 until I found out about TS2016 as it was then!
TS2020 is an evolution of the Kuju (and even EA) Rail Simulator and later Railworks - yes. You can still find all sorts of quirks within TS2020 that hark back to the Kuju days! :D
If you're interested in getting back into train sims and want some help with TS2020, please don't hesitate to send me a PM. :)

-Peter
 

Iskra

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It's a tough one at the moment; TSW wins on graphics, immersion and performance whereas TS2020 is the superior product for playability, variety of DLC, more freedom to do what you want and it's more realistic because the AI traffic is more true to life. Thus neither sim truly satisfies currently, hopefully TSW2 can bring the best of both sims together.

TSW2 is a welcome acknowledgement that TSW hasn't been able to fulfil its potential, hopefully it can be a step-change. I am however disappointed that the initial DLC is London Underground, as innovative as that is, it's not going to have much variety or scenic appeal.
 

Peter C

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It's a tough one at the moment; TSW wins on graphics, immersion and performance whereas TS2020 is the superior product for playability, variety of DLC, more freedom to do what you want and it's more realistic because the AI traffic is more true to life.

TSW2 is a welcome acknowledgement that TSW hasn't been able to fulfil its potential, hopefully it can be a step-change. I am however disappointed that the initial DLC is London Underground, as innovative as that is, it's not going to have much variety or scenic appeal.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there with that comparison.
As it is now, TSW is very constrained in terms of what it can offer. You can drive all sorts of trains in all sorts of lovely-looking environments, yes, but once you've finished all of the scenarios - that's it. Nothing else to play through from the 3rd-party community and your only option is to play through the Service mode or do the same scenarios over and over again - which can be fun, trying to get the best score.
One of the things I like about TSW2 is that yes - it is DTG holding up their hands, in a way, and saying "TSW wasn't all it was cracked up to be". Something you don't normally see from DTG.
The LU DLC seems quite interesting - I'd like to see how the Bakerloo Line stock compares to the freeware Piccadilly Line stock from the Virtual District Line for TS2020 (it's the closest we have in TS2020) and how it drives. But I'll have to do that through watching reviews because I'm not in a position to buy a game which doesn't work very well - if at all - on my machine. :)

-Peter
 

nlogax

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I have TSW on the PS4 and it's..very good, though as updates arrive I've noticed external camera bugs and scenery performance limitations from the piece of spinning rust that sits inside the console. So I'd hope that TSW2 would improve upon things. Compatibility with the upcoming PS5 is pretty much guaranteed so we'll be able to see the performance benefits when moving to the newer console even though Unreal Engine 5 isn't going to play a role anytime soon.

We're only getting an Underground route from the UK perspective which is a bit disappointing. I've spent enough time on BVE with this route over the years already. At least I'd hope there's the opportunity to pursue WCML services up to Harrow & Wealdstone, but would Pendos and 350s feature purely as background scenery on this stretch?
 

_toommm_

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Whilst Train Sim 2020 is now rather old, with some third party addons it can look and feel great. I’d highly recommend a look at Armstrong Powerhouse, who enhance existing models, or create their own. Their 319 pack is almost an anal attention to detail, and well worth the money, as is their 150/2 pack.

Id also recommend getting RW Enhancer which vastly improves the lighting (for only around £9). There’s also the Steam Workshop which provides third-party scenarios, and there’s a particular user called Danny who combines routes, so you can drive in one scenario all the way from Bedford to Brighton, or Kings Cross to Edinburgh. Personally, I believe that TS2020 will still be supported and worked on once TSW2 comes out, so I’d invest (and have invested) in TS2020.
 

MB162435

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Personally I feel with the PS5 on the horizon it is time for DTG to focus mainly on TSW, not saying they should forget TS2020 but there is more than enough on there and with 3rd parties also working on it they should try and build up the TSW content now, otherwise TSW will never take off like TS has

As a main player of the TSW game rather than TS2020, it is frustrating when new fleets, routes and liveries is released for TS2020 but on TSW you have the same stuff, although the Class 20 has recently been released for TSW but nothing modern, the newest UK train available being the 66, not sure if any of the foreign fleets are any newer on TSW then the 66
 

Crossover

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Reading between the lines, it looks like TSW2 may have an ability to create custom scenarios. If my reading of this is correct, its good news and is something that is lacking in TSW
 

Peter C

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My understanding is that the "Scenario Planner" seems to be more of a Quick Drive, whereby you can drive from one place to another but choose the AI and certain things, but you can't make a scenario in the TS2020 sense of the term. Unless there's something else which I've completely missed, which is more than likely :D

-Peter
 

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