Train sitting in the station with doors locked, passengers waiting outside

[BrianW]

But if there was an announcement saying "furthest train from the barrier" and they got on the wrong train what would they have to complain about. Afterall, it is their responsibility to get on the right train!

Back when I was knee high I was taught to look at the destination blind on the front of the train/bus (and tram when I went to Blackpool for the Illuminations) to make sure it was going to were I wanted to go !

As an irregular 'punter' I find 'front train' confusing. It may be thought clear when one approaches via and end-of platform barrier at a terminal station; not so, for reason stated above. Front is the first you come to. I seem to recall a visit to Glasgow Central with three trains in the same platform, and no 1a, Ib etc.

I also had experience at Shrub Hill of my train from Oxford arriving in time for me to connect to a Kidderminster train only for the doors on the ex-Oxford to be kept locked while the train was divided and my ongoing train went. Infuriating.

Why don't trains have route numbers? Irregular stopping patterns are also unhelpful. Hoping GBR will 'get a grip' on that

And finally, for now

It does warrant a complaint if the customer is unhappy about it.

Complaints help move things on- they enable disgruntled folk to download, thereby defusing, and enable improvements to be made. Where would we be without this Forum?!

 

[Steve Harris]

As an irregular 'punter' I find 'front train' confusing. It may be thought clear when one approaches via and end-of platform barrier at a terminal station; not so, for reason stated above. Front is the first you come to. I seem to recall a visit to Glasgow Central with three trains in the same platform, and no 1a, Ib etc.

So if front is the first you come to... when you get onto a traditional Routemaster bus (not a Boris copycat) you step onto the platform and sit in the nearest seat to said platform, your sitting at the Front are you ???

Nope, in buses and train context, the Front is always the bit of the train/bus which is going to arrive first at wherever your going to ! (It never has anything to do with the trains relation to stairs/barriers).
As Alexanda the meekat would say... Simples !!

 

[Taunton]

How is it this belief arose that passengers need staff present to nanny them when the train is standing at the platform, but not when it starts rolling along the line ...?

 

[dk1]

It does warrant a complaint if the customer is unhappy about it.

As long as it departs on time i see no cause to complain.

 

[skyhigh]

How is it this belief arose that passengers need staff present to nanny them when the train is standing at the platform, but not when it starts rolling along the line ...?

But there will be staff present when the train is in motion - definitely a driver, possibly a guard as well? And yes I know the driver will be concentrating on driving, but they are there to answer any passenger alarms.

 

[stuu]

So if front is the first you come to... when you get onto a traditional Routemaster bus (not a Boris copycat) you step onto the platform and sit in the nearest seat to said platform, your sitting at the Front are you ???

No, that's not a comparable case. In general, when arriving at somewhere, the front is nearest to us and the rear furthest away. I think the front train/rear train confusion is entirely understandable. Referring to nearest train/furthest train from the buffers removes any confusion

 

[Darandio]

Referring to nearest train/furthest train from the buffers removes any confusion

Assuming the person being referred knows what a buffer is.

 

[stuu]

Assuming the person being referred knows what a buffer is.

Fair point! No, I wouldn't suggest that term in general announcements, either barriers or concourse or whatever is most appropriate

 

[lachlan]

Fair point! No, I wouldn't suggest that term in general announcements, either barriers or concourse or whatever is most appropriate

"The half closest to the barriers" is a good way to differentiate, but even so, I still think it's a good idea to have staff members on platform to help if possible. I think some forum users are forgetting that not everyone speaks fluent English.

Assuming the person being referred knows what a buffer is.

Out of curiousity do you apply this in other areas? For example as long as your food arrives promptly you wouldn't complain to your waiter even if it tasted awful? It's a small issue but one rail companies may be able to minimise but they'll only see the need to do that if they have feedback from customers!

 

[Taunton]

Assuming the person being referred knows what a buffer is.

That's why the old Southern Region said "barrier" instead at termini.

If you can't recognise the platform end buffers you likely aren't going to identify which way the train is going to depart, and thus front/back either .

More straightforwardly, there has been so much effort and fuss in recent years to installing/retrofitting internal destination indicators on trains, but few seem capable of showing the different destinations in different carriages where the train is going to split en route - something which Old School Railway readily handled by having different paper destination labels pasted up at the doors.

 

[Darandio]

Out of curiousity do you apply this in other areas? For example as long as your food arrives promptly you wouldn't complain to your waiter even if it tasted awful? It's a small issue but one rail companies may be able to minimise but they'll only see the need to do that if they have feedback from customers!

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If the food isn't as expected it goes back but how does that compare in any way to buffers?

 

[GatwickDepress]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If the food isn't as expected it goes back but how does that compare in any way to buffers?

If the buffers taste awful, you send them back to the kitchen?

 

[BrianW]

Assuming the person being referred knows what a buffer is.

Where there are buffers ... so where's the front at eg Birmingham New Street or Leeds, or Newcastle-upon-Tyne where a train may depart for London in either direction.
I know also that operations have changed over time and some can be confusing. I used to take what became XC from Cheltenham to Yorkshire. Sometimes it would enter via Proof House and 'reverse' out, 'front' becoming 'rear' (and to the surprise of many); sometimes it would enter from the other direction. Similarly a St Pancras- Sheffield train 'reversing' in Nottingham.
Trains today, by-and-large not loco-hauled, have two potential fronts, unlike a bus (except some airside transfer buses?) or a person or a queue. Not 'simples'.

 

[lachlan]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If the food isn't as expected it goes back but how does that compare in any way to buffers?

Haha, just noticed I responded to the wrong one, I was referring to the comment above about "as long as it departs on time..."

 

[geoffk]

Exmouth train at Exeter St Davids, happens quite frequently.

The crew have to change ends of course but no sure why this would require the train to be locked.

 

[dk1]

The crew have to change ends of course but no sure why this would require the train to be locked.

That confused me unless it was an early morning starter or back when some trains didn't originate in Torbay.

 

[bramling]

Hi all, I did a quick search but couldn't find anything discussing this issue so here goes

What is standard practice regarding keeping trains locked or unlocked while sitting on platforms? I showed up at Aberdeen 15 minutes early and tapped through the gates only to find the train locked and passengers sitting on the platform, despite it being "on" (engines running). I tweeted ScotRail about this at the time to ask if the doors could be unlocked but received no response, so submitted a complaint. After an initial "we'll pass that on" I asked again and today I was told that apparently the train needs to be locked as it was sitting there for a few hours and others depart from the same platform. Train crews don't attend the train until five minutes before departure so this is why it was locked.

While it's good ScotRail took the time to write a better response I'm a bit confused. I don't think

What is standard practice regarding keeping trains locked or unlocked while sitting on platforms? I showed up at Aberdeen 15 minutes early and tapped through the gates only to find the train locked and passengers sitting on the platform, despite it being "on" (engines running). I tweeted ScotRail about this at the time to ask if the doors could be unlocked but received no response, so submitted a complaint. After an initial "we'll pass that on" I asked again and today I was told that apparently the train needs to be locked as it was sitting there for a few hours and others depart from the same platform. Train crews don't attend the train until five minutes before departure so this is why it was locked.

While it's good ScotRail took the time to write a better response I'm a bit confused. I don't think they'd leave the engines on for "a few hours", why does two trains on the same platform mean one has to be locked, and if the traincrew were there to turn the engines on then why can't they have opened the doors?

I know in the grand scheme of things its only a small problem (a "first world problem"!) which is why I initially tweeted lightheartedly but was disappointed that this didn't receive a response from ScotRail's usually excellent team. Plus the issue is made worse by the low service frequencies (hourly), there being hardly any seats on the platform, and the adjacent Union Square having very little public seating and what is there is hard with no back rest, and much of it is closed due to coronavirus. It is an inconvenience for me but could be an accessibility issue for elderly and/or disabled people who may arrive early for their train.

Is locked trains a common occurrence? Usually, they're left unlocked at Aberdeen. I thought I'd make this thread in case others would like to share their experiences or knowledge. Thanks

Must admit this is a bit of a bugbear of mine.

There’s 101 reasons given why trains should be left locked up as much as possible, however in practice some locations seem to manage totally happily without needing to do it, and many of the reasons simply read as excuses to make life easier for staff.

I suspect the reality is that the places where it happens religiously do it simply because they always have done, than for any practical reason.

The worst reason is “bus stations do it”. Perhaps this sort of customer focus is symptomatic of why buses are a distress purchase for most of the population...

 

[Taunton]

That's a good summary.

Some of the excuses given above are so unlikely/implausible that the member is maybe rehearsing for being a Hollywood thriller scriptwriter.

 

[seagull]

There’s 101 reasons given why trains should be left locked ... many of the reasons simply read as excuses to make life easier for staff.

That means many don't, too. So there you go.

Rather reminds me of the time stood waiting for an hour at a signal because of an engineering overrun - with very visible track machines around on the adjacent line, and workers everywhere scurrying to get things moved and finished, a passenger, after being given the completely honest reason for the delay, stated in a loud voice "that's just another excuse, not a reason."
Cue hilarity and shaking of heads from those nearby.

 

[TEW]

It's certainly pretty uncommon on SWR for units to get locked up during the day. Generally at Waterloo units only get locked up if there is platform sharing occurring, and then the part of the train locked up wouldn't be advertised until the other half has left anyway. Other than that though trains are nearly always just left unlocked at terminal stations and passengers are free to board.

 

[zwk500]

More straightforwardly, there has been so much effort and fuss in recent years to installing/retrofitting internal destination indicators on trains, but few seem capable of showing the different destinations in different carriages where the train is going to split en route - something which Old School Railway readily handled by having different paper destination labels pasted up at the doors.

I've personally always liked the GTR (and possibly wider southern region) practice of announcing the common calling points, then announcing the split, then announcing each portion in turn (with carriage numbers) and finally confirming the current carriage number.

 

[bramling]

That means many don't, too. So there you go.

Rather reminds me of the time stood waiting for an hour at a signal because of an engineering overrun - with very visible track machines around on the adjacent line, and workers everywhere scurrying to get things moved and finished, a passenger, after being given the completely honest reason for the delay, stated in a loud voice "that's just another excuse, not a reason."
Cue hilarity and shaking of heads from those nearby.

That’s as maybe, however it doesn’t change the fact that location A can quite happily leave virtually all their trains open with no problems, whilst at location B the self-same type of train apparently can’t be for a whole list of supposed reasons.

This points to it being more cultural than practical.

No doubt some staff would prefer not to let the passengers on the train at all, and just run round empty all day. Blackpool North would likely be happily complicit with that!

 

[zwk500]

That’s as maybe, however it doesn’t change the fact that location A can quite happily leave virtually all their trains open with no problems, whilst at location B the self-same type of train apparently can’t be for a whole list of supposed reasons.

This points to it being more cultural than practical.

Or that there's local factors at B that A doesn't have/copes with differently?

 

[bramling]

Or that there's local factors at B that A doesn't have/copes with differently?

Whichever way one looks at it, local factors invariable mean local working practices, which essentially means staff.

It’s a pretty shoddy spectacle for a crowd of people to be left standing in the cold until the guard turns up, which in the majority of cases is what people will experience.

“That’s how we do things here” isn’t really acceptable.

 

[zwk500]

Whichever way one looks at it, local factors invariable mean local working practices, which essentially means staff.

It’s a pretty shoddy spectacle for a crowd of people to be left standing in the cold until the guard turns up, which in the majority of cases is what people will experience.

“That’s how we do things here” isn’t really acceptable.

Agreed entirely, but that doesn't mean you have to unlock the train - better comms, better shelters and better seats would go a long way. maybe don't advertise platforms at termini until the train is ready to be unlocked as well.

 

[LowLevel]

You would never have to stay with the unit. That’s not an official place to have a break. Has to be an agreed messroom with all available facilities.

We have short breaks of 20 minutes without walking time that can be taken on the unit.

 

[D6130]

maybe don't advertise platforms at termini until the train is ready to be unlocked as well.

This is what happens at Leeds with the LNER Kings Cross services.

 

[physics34]

Why complain? I see passengers getting edgy and annoyed when i arrive at my locked up train and i enter the cab to set it up and then open the doors. As long as the train doesnt leave late there shouldnt be a problem

 

[YorksLad12]

This is what happens at Leeds with the LNER Kings Cross services.

Never works with the regulars or even semi-regulars though. Pre-Azuma, the xx15 left from P6, the xx45 from P8; there's only one in the station at any one time so it's easy to work out once you get through the gates. I generally wander down about 15 minutes before departure, through the gates, amble down the platform and wait for the doors to open. In fact, I don't know why LNER trains aren't always called at 15 minutes instead of 10, it might space everyone out a bit more at the gates and the trains are usually ready by then.

 

[dk1]

We have short breaks of 20 minutes without walking time that can be taken on the unit.

Sometimes we choose to stay with the unit but would be against all agreements to be booked to do so in a pnb.