Train Timing / Recording - What do you do? (and similar discussion)

[Peter C]

Hello all,

I was looking on the Rail Performance Society website this morning (link here) and I was quite interested to see that train timing (or recording, whichever you prefer) is a big thing.
Having read quite a few Ian Allan books, I was familiar with the idea of recording trains "in the good old days of steam", but I didn't know it was still a thing today. Turns out it is a major thing.

I was wondering - what do you do for train timing? As in, if you time trains, how do you do it? Do you always sit in a particular bit of the train, or on one line? Do you use mileposts, signals, or stations?
I've timed a few services (I'll try and put the information I got from them below, or in a post following on from this) and I've mainly recorded HST services on their last few runs up the Cotswold Line.

I've also put together a table for timing trains on the Cotswold Line between Oxford and Honeybourne, if anyone is interested, which I will also try and put in a secondary post here.

Thanks,

-Peter

Sorry if this has already been posted - I've done a search and couldn't find anything.

 

[Peter C]

Secondary post with timing information:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1k9NQJDN3LR5APwLJ-f6DCmT8X9SfNZAg

The above link takes you to a Google Drive .pdf with two of my timings on.

-Peter

EDIT: Here's the one I made for the Cotswold Line between Oxford and Honeybourne:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vvgRXrpuVD_wkelN981qIVGG2VwMkGkh

 

[The Planner]

Timing points from the TPRs and obviously stations if you are stopping. Sit at the front so you can possibly hear for AWS, as chances are you aren't going to see signals. Either that or up front in the cab if it can be arranged or OTMR downloads. Unless it is, or likely to become related to a SRT, then I ignore it. It needs a clean run without restrictive signals (unless restrictive aspects are the best you are going to get, ie approach control) or it's pretty much wasted on that section.

 

[Peter C]

Timing points from the TPRs and obviously stations if you are stopping. Sit at the front so you can possibly hear for AWS, as chances are you aren't going to see signals. Either that or up front in the cab if it can be arranged or OTMR downloads. Unless it is, or likely to become related to a SRT, then I ignore it. It needs a clean run without restrictive signals (unless restrictive aspects are the best you are going to get, ie approach control) or it's pretty much wasted on that section.

OK - thanks. Just wondering: what do TPR, OTMR, and SRT mean?

Thanks,

-Peter

 

[The Planner]

TPR Timetable Planning Rules, OTMR On Train Monitoring Recording, AWS Automatic Warning System, SRT sectional running time.

 

[Peter C]

TPR Timetable Planning Rules, OTMR On Train Monitoring Recording, AWS Automatic Warning System, SRT sectional running time.

Thanks very much. I never thought about sitting near the cab - but it has happened by accident once or twice!

-Peter

 

[Ken H]

Does anyone use GPS for speeds etc?
My phone GPS is pretty rubbish in a train - Faraday cages not good for the satellite signals - but holding against the window usually works.

I have a Android phone and I use a free app called GPS test by Chartcross Ltd. It can give you a speed and elevation, together with a GPS fix in lat/long or OSGB grid ref. If it can 'see' 4 satellites. Upgrade allows you to save locations. never bought that.

 

[KingJ]

Does anyone use GPS for speeds etc?
My phone GPS is pretty rubbish in a train - Faraday cages not good for the satellite signals - but holding against the window usually works.

I have a Android phone and I use a free app called GPS test by Chartcross Ltd. It can give you a speed and elevation, together with a GPS fix in lat/long or OSGB grid ref. If it can 'see' 4 satellites. Upgrade allows you to save locations. never bought that.

Different phones have different capabilities - older models will only be able to use GPS satellites, but newer models can combine other GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite System) providers such as Russia's GLONASS, China's BeiDou and the EU's Galileo. This can greatly help improve positioning, and therefore speed, accuracy in less than ideal conditions - such as inside shielded vehicles or deep cuttings. Another improvement present in some 2019 phones is support for "Dual Frequency GNSS". Both the US GPS system and the EU's Galileo transmit positioning signals on multiple frequencies - receivers that can process both frequencies can make this to improve accuracy further, especially in poor conditions such as dense urban environments and cuttings!

Even if your phone supports some of these more advanced features, not all apps are able to take advantage of them. For the best results, I would recommend GPSTest (no space compared to the "GPS Test" app you use). It's free, open source and supports as many of the advanced positioning features as your phone's hardware has.

Bringing it slightly back on topic, although you can use a GPS/GNSS receiver for speed measurements, the most accurate will always be timing between two known points (at least, most accurate for an average speed measurement!).

 

[Peter C]

Does anyone use GPS for speeds etc?
My phone GPS is pretty rubbish in a train - Faraday cages not good for the satellite signals - but holding against the window usually works.

I have a Android phone and I use a free app called GPS test by Chartcross Ltd. It can give you a speed and elevation, together with a GPS fix in lat/long or OSGB grid ref. If it can 'see' 4 satellites. Upgrade allows you to save locations. never bought that.

I haven't considered using my phone for speeds - thanks for that! When I worked out the average speeds, the speedometer (which I suppose was using the GPS) app I was using worked them out for me or I worked them out with a calculator and maths.

-Peter

 

[Ken H]

Different phones have different capabilities - older models will only be able to use GPS satellites, but newer models can combine other GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite System) providers such as Russia's GLONASS, China's BeiDou and the EU's Galileo. This can greatly help improve positioning, and therefore speed, accuracy in less than ideal conditions - such as inside shielded vehicles or deep cuttings. Another improvement present in some 2019 phones is support for "Dual Frequency GNSS". Both the US GPS system and the EU's Galileo transmit positioning signals on multiple frequencies - receivers that can process both frequencies can make this to improve accuracy further, especially in poor conditions such as dense urban environments and cuttings!

Even if your phone supports some of these more advanced features, not all apps are able to take advantage of them. For the best results, I would recommend GPSTest (no space compared to the "GPS Test" app you use). It's free, open source and supports as many of the advanced positioning features as your phone's hardware has.

Bringing it slightly back on topic, although you can use a GPS/GNSS receiver for speed measurements, the most accurate will always be timing between two known points (at least, most accurate for an average speed measurement!).

Ill give that one a try. Thanks