Train v National Express Coach v Plane

[DarloRich]

Recently challenging financial circumstances have forced me to take the National Express between MK & Leeds. I wondered what the forum view was on the difference in service and accommodation and the value for money versus the same journey by train. I will give my views below:

Firstly I will be honest - I hate buses, expect those in London, with a passion. I think they are for plebs, oiks and children. The one journey I took on National Express when at university took hours and was uncomfortable enlivened only by a drunk person trying to get on the bus at Birmingham coach station to fight the driver.

That said I was very surprised with my recent journeys!

The bus was modern and clean, the driver was smart and while grumpy not hideously so. The seats were leather, I got a double seat to myself, there were plugs, there was air con, there was a toilet, there were good reading lights and the journey was smooth and comfortable. The passengers were mainly students ( shudder) but not annoyingly stude like and everyone was well behaved. The journey time was 3 hours which was extended by a traffic jam to about 3 hours 30. The fare, at last minute ( 2 hours before departure) was £18!

That compares VERY well with the cost of a train ticket and the journey was non stop. The ambiance on the bus was better than the usual XC voyager ( the toilet certainly smelt less!) and the seats were more comfortable. The time of journey was competitive and I didn't have to waste time at New Street or the twilight zone that is Tamworth. There was no competition on price.

That said I am not sure I would want to do a longer journey or a journey away from the M1 corridor but I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of service. Perhaps I have been overly harsh on the bus! What are your views?

 

[Sacro]

I've used National Express as it's far easier to get to Mansfield than via train (have to go via Sheffield/Retford and Worksop/Nottingham), similar experience, cheaper than the train, direct, comfy and clean, I sat with my Kindle whilst the driver navigated the 50mph section on the M1!

I think there are a fair few routes where the coach is a faster option, especially if the route requires a change or two.

 

[najaB]

That said I am not sure I would want to do a longer journey or a journey away from the M1 corridor but I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of service. Perhaps I have been overly harsh on the bus! What are your views?

As you said, it depends on the length of the journey. I can quite happily take either bus or train going to Edinburgh or Glasgow as it's a short journey (1 hour 30 by train, 2 hours on the bus). But going to London the train wins hands down (6 hours on the train, 11 hours on the bus).

With that length of journey the ability to get up and walk around on the train makes a big difference.

 

[mikeg]

I too have a favourable impression of National Express, always friendly staff. I disagree with DarloRich that buses are for 'plebs, oiks and children', where they exist they can be a necessary means of getting around, especially where there is no station. I used the buses extensively in Nottingham, but now I'm back in North Yorskhire I don't use them - extortionate prices, poor frequency and they magically disappear just after 5pm. Here buses are less for plebs, oiks and chidren and more for twirlies, however, so that may be part of the issue - espcecially given NYCC's poor funding.

Returning to the subject of National Express, it was cheaper than by train to visit Thirsk from Nottingham and although it took a good hour longer was always a pleasurable journey, though sometimes I found if I had sufficient notice, splitting advances with the Northern and TPE services to be more economical. There were however only two viable services a day, both with a change at Leeds. It's also the cheapest way of getting to London at short notice by far from Thirsk, though unsuitable for a day trip, and the quickest way of getting to MKC, though I visited that modernist marvel once and decided it gets a bit tiring on foot.

 

[ComUtoR]

I've seen a few news reports about comparing Trains and Coaches to commute. Generally its quite favourable as long as your willing to accept the differences and potentially longer journey times.

Price wise, it can be a lot better on the wallet.

If I find an archived news report. I'll post it. It was quite informative.

 

[AlterEgo]

National Express are pretty good value. You don't get a huge amount (and usually a slow journey), but the fares are often very competitive indeed.

I'm shortly going to be taking the Stagecoach Gold sleeper bus between Aberdeen and London; now there's a little niche in the market.

 

[cf111]

I'd rather take the train but NX coaches are OK when you consider everything: Decent legroom, a power outlet at every pair of seats, loads of luggage room, wi-fi, on-board streaming entertainment (sometimes) and normally cheaper than rail.

What puts me off using the coach in Scotland unless I have to is that Stagecoach/CityLink vehicles are never as nice as NX coaches and it's normally more expensive than the train despite being slower.

 

[cambsy]

On pretty much all my trips, I use National Express 04.25 am Exeter to Heathrow non stop except driver change at Taunton Deanne services, because its peak time for traffic it is quicker and easier get tube from Heathrow, normally arrives early or on time, and is a quiet service, get double seat, normally pay about 7-8, then get train from London to somewhere up North, then National Express or Megabus about 11.30pm back to Exeter, I find the coach to be clean and comfortable, put music on and zone out, the train would be too much to London at that time of day, coaches are to me good to travel on, cheap and modern, though you pay for what you get, train you get space to move around, refreshments, quicker service, can stretch legs etc, coach u get reasonably comfortable seat, slower. Service, cant stretch legs except during breaks, more prone to delay, cramped, train is my favourite but coaches have their uses for me.

 

[DarloRich]

Mine didn't have wifi - that was the only thing missing - has it not been rolled out across the fleet?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not enough legroom, and not enough seat width unless I could pay to guarantee a double seat to myself. If they would solve those, e.g. with a couple of rows of premium seating, I could be tempted over.


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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

National Express are pretty good value. You don't get a huge amount (and usually a slow journey), but the fares are often very competitive indeed.

I'm shortly going to be taking the Stagecoach Gold sleeper bus between Aberdeen and London; now there's a little niche in the market.

Because of the longitudinal beds, I slept better on that for 20 quid than on the Caledonian for 200.


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[tbtc]

I hate buses, expect those in London, with a passion. I think they are for plebs, oiks and children

... in which case you should see some of the "fellow travellers" who use trains round here

I used to commute by National Express - in the days when the 070 provided three handily timed departures from Sheffield to Leeds in the morning (07:00, 07:15 and 07:30) - back when Cross Country trains were infrequent and unreliable and Northern Spirit were no faster than the coach (i.e. no "semi fast" via Barnsley, just the stoppers via Castleford or the Dearne Valley).

The only two problems I ever had with National Express were that I used to struggle to read on a coach (compared to being on a train - but that's not something I can blame NX for - that's just me) and the fact that long distance ticketholders with specific tickets had priority when boarding at Leeds on the way home (which makes perfect sense - and deals with the "short distance commuter" problems you see on journeys like Paddington - Reading - but used to be frustrating when you were queuing separately at Leeds and hoping there'd be a seat spare for you!).

I'd happily do so again - but most National Express routes are more useful at providing one direct service a day between two places (like XC used to be, pre-Virgin) than providing a regular service - but then they have their niche and seem to serve it pretty well - they are still going pretty strongly despite the increase in rail services and the cherrypicking competition from Megabus - NX seem to know what they are doing.

 

[47802]

I avoided coaches for many years but with increasing cost of tickets to London by train unless you know you want to travel substancially in advance, I have made a number of trips from Leeds to London by National Express and found it OK and very good value in many cases being substancially cheaper than the train. Having said that the 4 to 5 hours it takes by coach from Leeds to London is about the max time I would like to spend on the coach really.

I remember having a bit of shocker around 7 or 8 years back, they had mucked up the bookings I think in the fairly early days of booking online and massively overbooked. It was the overnight bus and I was catching an early morning Eurostar service. Getting on at Leeds there was a duplicate coach going straight to Victoria only, however I had booked to get off a Golders Green and then a short hop on the tube to St Pancras so got on the original stopping coach. Gets to Sheffield and there about a dozen too many passengers waiting to get on so the drivers gets onto his control and after about a half hours delay they manage to find a Minibus to take them. So then onward to Nottingham bus station and find smoke coming from the back wheel arch, and driver declares it a failure. They try to get hold of the duplicate but decide its now too far in front. Eventually manage to get onto a coach to Leicester, and then another to London and arrive in Golders Green over 2 hours late. Fortunately I made it to the Eurostar gate just in time.

 

[najaB]

Because of the longitudinal beds, I slept better on that for 20 quid than on the Caledonian for 200.

Obviously comfort is a subjective thing, but I'll counter that my one experience was enough to put me off for good. I found it very uncomfortable and didn't sleep much if at all.

 

[168lover]

National Express are pretty good value. You don't get a huge amount (and usually a slow journey), but the fares are often very competitive indeed.

I'm shortly going to be taking the Stagecoach Gold sleeper bus between Aberdeen and London; now there's a little niche in the market.

Good luck with the megabus gold sleeper, did it from London to Edinburgh last month, 8 and half hours of lying in a coffin that seemed to tip on its end every time the bus braked and with someone sleeping 4 inches above me who kept in throwing their pillow at me all night, not a pleasant experience.

 

[David Andrews]

One big advantage particularly for older people and those with disabilities is that there are a number of journeys that can be made without having to change and drivers who will look after you. Here in West Cumbria we can get a direct coach daily to Birmingham and London though the full journey takes around 10 hours whereas trains mean at least one change. With advance fares trains can be cheaper if you book ahead, not at the last minute.

 

[Temple Meads]

Prefer coach travel to train travel if I can get a front seat, there's so much more to look at!

Helps that the the coach is usually cheaper too, I used to be a loyal Megabus customer but their fares seem to have gone up a bit lately, so I'm now using Nat Ex too - I prefer their vehicles as well.

The Megabus sleeper experience has never appealed to me at all, paying a premium to lie flat with no forward view sounds awful!!

I do know that without express coaches I wouldn't be able to travel anywhere near as much, the fares are that much better!

And yes you do seem to get some 'unusual' fellow travellers at times, but I see it all as part of the fun to be honest. You do get them on trains too, but they are at closer quarters on a coach, and it's harder to move away from then

 

[96tommy]

In the summer when bringing luggage back home to Yorkshire from London, I used the Megabus 4 days running between London and Leeds and didn't spend more than £2 on any journey. Takes forever but the coaches were always half empty and if you have mobile data or a book, the time flies by (until you reach Lords on a matchday). Overall cost me £7.50, 4 journeys and around 800 miles. Ertaordinary when you conisder a return for me from Tadcaster to Leeds is less than a pound cheaper! Straightforward from Victoria to Whitechapel (District Line) and to connect with the bus at the other end at Leeds Bus Station.
Overall, I prefer the train, faster but a let down on the reliability front, but the coach is a great alternative if looking for something different and usually cheaper.

 

[najaB]

Good luck with the megabus gold sleeper, did it from London to Edinburgh last month, 8 and half hours of lying in a coffin that seemed to tip on its end every time the bus braked and with someone sleeping 4 inches above me who kept in throwing their pillow at me all night, not a pleasant experience.

I was also in the lower bunk and found it very constrained. Maybe it is better in the top bunk.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Megabus sleeper experience has never appealed to me at all, paying a premium to lie flat with no forward view sounds awful!!

For those of us who have trouble sleeping in a seat, it was excellent. Best night's kip I've had on a moving vehicle (other than a boat). The only oddity was that I woke up briefly each time they turned off to swap drivers, so the night was an odd memory of turning off the motorway in very quick succession then waking up in Glasgow!

Having the bunks longitudinal with the head to the rear (as braking is necessarily harsher than acceleration) made all the difference - far better than being sideways and having the blood alternate from head to feet on the Caledonian. The second best night's kip I've had on a moving vehicle was on a DB Talgo Kajueteliegewagen - longitudinal couchettes. I think it's a real shame the Caledonian didn't manage to sort out the flatbeds, as they would have been perfect.
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I was also in the lower bunk and found it very constrained. Maybe it is better in the top bunk.

I went for the top and it was a bit like the top hammock-style bunk you used to get in a Sprite touring caravan, which I spent my childhood kipping in when on holiday. I'm a very big person and just about fit. You can now pay a bit extra for a "double bed" to yourself, which would make it even better.

 

[Bungle965]

Good luck with the megabus gold sleeper, did it from London to Edinburgh last month, 8 and half hours of lying in a coffin that seemed to tip on its end every time the bus braked and with someone sleeping 4 inches above me who kept in throwing their pillow at me all night, not a pleasant experience.

There is an option for you to be able to book both bunks to help some of the problem with annoying passenger, however that bumps up the price.
Sam

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[Envoy]

Some people use the Megabus/ Nat Express because the drivers load their baggage. Would it not be a good idea to have uniformed porters at stations who would help those who need it onto trains?

The trouble with longer distance trains is that to get cheaper fares, you have to book well ahead in most cases. A more user friendly system would have 3 tiers of fares depending on the demand for a particular service - without the need to pre-book.

Cross Country have high fares because demand far outstrips supply of seats. I wonder how many extra people would be travelling on their routes if they had really low fares due to having a plentiful supply of seats?

The trouble with coaches is that you cannot guarantee accurate timings due to traffic jams.

 

[mirodo]

I was looking a few weeks ago at London-Bristol prices and comparing coach v train. At the time (I presume Megabus had just released the latest batch of fares), I could have booked a return journey for 50p. (£0 out, £0 back, 50p booking fee)!

Currently fares towards the end of the booking window are £1-3 each way (cf. £15-20 each way by train). Journey times are only 1 hour longer each way, some of which may be mitigated by travelling from Victoria rather than Paddington depending where one's journey originates.

 

[amarshe]

Sometimes the coach is the better option - London to Oxford or Cheltenham for example - and National Express are pretty decent.

I actually find myself enjoying short coach trips since it's a rare occurrence for me. Three hours would be my limit though.

My brother on the other hand will happily get the overnight coach from Glasgow to London...everyone's different.

In terms of passenger etiquette...I've experienced bad behaviour on all modes of transport. The best option would be to have a private jet/helicopter

 

[Bletchleyite]

My brother on the other hand will happily get the overnight coach from Glasgow to London...everyone's different.

If I could sleep on them I would. Sadly I can't sleep vertically.

 

[cuccir]

I've most commonly used them coming from London to the North East after football games at Wembley: the last train from KGX is at 22:00 which is usually too early.

I've found them surprisingly comfortable and have generally been able to sleep pretty much constantly from the M1 to arriving into Darlington.

The market for coaches is clearly in the niches where trains are too indirect, expensive or early/late for someone's needs, but in those niches they do a good job.

 

[jopsuk]

Cambridge is something of a black hole as a far as National Express goes. It has a couple of long distance/cross country routes, an awful London service (if you've got a railcard, trains are usually cheaper and the coach is timetabled for abut two hours with a high chance of being stuck in traffic), an almost baffling Stansted service (twice as long as the train, generally no cheaper) and a horrifically slow service to Luton and Heathrow airports (it takes over an hour and a half to reach Luton, a mere 30 miles away, and something like four hours to heathrow). I've consequently barely used them. When I have, the coaches have been distinctly nothing special.

There is one decent "coach" route, the Stagecoach X5 to Oxford. Which is technically a bus service.

 

[philthetube]

Cambridge is something of a black hole as a far as National Express goes. It has a couple of long distance/cross country routes, an awful London service (if you've got a railcard, trains are usually cheaper and the coach is timetabled for abut two hours with a high chance of being stuck in traffic), an almost baffling Stansted service (twice as long as the train, generally no cheaper) and a horrifically slow service to Luton and Heathrow airports (it takes over an hour and a half to reach Luton, a mere 30 miles away, and something like four hours to heathrow). I've consequently barely used them. When I have, the coaches have been distinctly nothing special.

There is one decent "coach" route, the Stagecoach X5 to Oxford. Which is technically a bus service.

I would agree with you about the London service, coaches could never compete with traffic so they dont try too hard,

Services to stansted Luton and Heathrow cannot be speeded up much, roads are roads and speed limits are what they are, travelling from Cambridge city centre you could probably save 5-10 mins to Stansted 15 to Luton and 25 to Heathrow, then you have to park. (there is a lot of padding in the timetable to Heathrow)

There is no Direct service to Luton or Heathrow and the coach is massivley preferable for luggage and convenience and close on time.

Incidentally AA route planner currently shows journey time as 1 hour 11 mins Cambridge to Luton airport by car, following the routh the coach uses, actual mileage 42.6 miles.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is one decent "coach" route, the Stagecoach X5 to Oxford. Which is technically a bus service.

The X5 is rather like your typical German or Austrian regional bus service - run using quality high floor (but accessible) vehicles - we need more of that kind of thing.

There was the other X5 (in Cumbria, similarly a "Beeching bus" that actually came later), but that is now run using Gold buses.

 

[johntea]

Out of interest are you allowed to drink (moderate!) booze on coaches these days?

One thing I do enjoy about a longer train journey is I can fire up my film on my laptop or whatever enjoy a few beers and just chill out...I remember it was a bit of a trouble walking straight upon arrival at Bristol Temple Meads the last time though

 

[Bletchleyite]

Out of interest are you allowed to drink (moderate!) booze on coaches these days?

No, you're not.

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