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Trainee or apprentice ?

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DriverEight

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Is there a difference between a trainee train driver and an apprenticeship? I notice the advert for Northern apprentice doesn't mention the usual Maths and English requirements, so is this part of the course?
 
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Brad182

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Yeah, the apprenticeship will incorporate the maths, English and IT within the course - unless you already have those grades/qualifications then you can forego the exam.

afaik the main difference is that the TOC gets funding from the govt. when they call it an apprenticeship :D:lol:
 

Manda2194

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Yeah, the apprenticeship will incorporate the maths, English and IT within the course - unless you already have those grades/qualifications then you can forego the exam.

afaik the main difference is that the TOC gets funding from the govt. when they call it an apprenticeship :D:lol:
The funding side may explain why companies you would not expect to take in trainees are. CrossCountry is an example. So is LNER.

I was surprised to see trainee vacancies for both as I would have thought they would have easily been able to fill the roles with qualified drivers and not have to spend time to money training but if they are getting money from the government that makes sense.
 

12guard4

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The funding side may explain why companies you would not expect to take in trainees are. CrossCountry is an example. So is LNER.

I was surprised to see trainee vacancies for both as I would have thought they would have easily been able to fill the roles with qualified drivers and not have to spend time to money training but if they are getting money from the government that makes sense.
Wrong. Cross Country are taking trainees because they need them or will be desperately short in the coming years.
 

Manda2194

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Wrong. Cross Country are taking trainees because they need them or will be desperately short in the coming years.

Fair enough but what I mean is I would assume that the long distance operators with the higher salaries would just be able to attract qualified drivers from other TOCs and save themselves some money.
 

DriverEight

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The funding side may explain why companies you would not expect to take in trainees are. CrossCountry is an example. So is LNER.

I was surprised to see trainee vacancies for both as I would have thought they would have easily been able to fill the roles with qualified drivers and not have to spend time to money training but if they are getting money from the government that makes sense.
There's a difference between an apprentice and a trainee. An TRUE apprenticeship is a fixed term course, with additional funding from the government and includes non vocational training, usually at a college, in things like maths, english and IT. It usually, but not always, leads to a full time job. My original question was to try to establish whether the post offered by Northern was a true apprenticeship or a traineeship by another name. The reason I ask is because the Northern advert specifically mentions a 2 year course which is something I've not seen in other TOCs.
 
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There's a difference between an apprentice and a trainee. An TRUE apprenticeship is a fixed term course, with additional funding from the government and includes non vocational training, usually at a college, in things like maths, english and IT. It usually, but not always, leads to a full time job. My original question was to try to establish whether the post offered by Northern was a true apprenticeship or a traineeship by another name. The reason I ask is because the Northern advert specifically mentions a 2 year course which is something I've not seen in other TOCs.
This is what i'm also confused about as this was my understanding too. I applied for the XC one which didn't mention anything about courses or a fixed term which makes me wonder if it's a trainee position just named differently to benefit from government funding
 

DriverEight

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This is what i'm also confused about as this was my understanding too. I applied for the XC one which didn't mention anything about courses or a fixed term which makes me wonder if it's a trainee position just named differently to benefit from government funding
I'm not sure either.
 

Inthe4foot

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I’ve just finished my Mentoring and due to pass out this week.

I did the apprenticeship and we had the company apprenticeship manager come in and spent an hour talking about the apprenticeship about what is required and what it involves. She explained that the idea is to make the train driver course a universal course and then after the classroom stuff has been passed the drivers go to their relevant TOCs/FOCs/OA operators for traction, route learning, handling etc.

The course that They ran after us had colas drivers mainline on and mainline drivers + depot drivers for my TOC.

i think the funding from the government might have had a swing on why so many companies agreed to sigh up lol
 

DriverEight

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I’ve just finished my Mentoring and due to pass out this week.

I did the apprenticeship and we had the company apprenticeship manager come in and spent an hour talking about the apprenticeship about what is required and what it involves. She explained that the idea is to make the train driver course a universal course and then after the classroom stuff has been passed the drivers go to their relevant TOCs/FOCs/OA operators for traction, route learning, handling etc.

The course that They ran after us had colas drivers mainline on and mainline drivers + depot drivers for my TOC.

i think the funding from the government might have had a swing on why so many companies agreed to sigh up lol
Thanks for that. Can I ask, was it 2 years and did you remain on the training wage for 2 years?
 
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Yeah, the apprenticeship will incorporate the maths, English and IT within the course - unless you already have those grades/qualifications then you can forego the exam.

afaik the main difference is that the TOC gets funding from the govt. when they call it an apprenticeship :D:lol:

Its unlikely to be the Government paying - more likely the TOC themselves using funds from their apprenticeship levy (they have to pay 0.5% of their salary bill into the levy). If they don't use it then they lose it after 24 months!
 

Inthe4foot

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Thanks for that. Can I ask, was it 2 years and did you remain on the training wage for 2 years?
Hi we went up to full pay after 18 weeks but I’m going Depot driving. I think mainline have to do 1 year on 80% pay at our TOC after the 18 weeks Before going on full whack.

The apprenticeship has worked good for me as going from depot driver to mainline at Nottingham is easier. There’s no intermediate course as we all do same rules, all we have to do is some high speed handling before mentoring and route learning.

It’s a 1 year program. You are not tied in so when a mainline job comes up at notts for me I can go even if it’s within that year.

Another thing we were told is that the end of apprenticeship exam is done by managers from a different TOC. I don’t know why this is.

:)
 

DriverEight

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Hi we went up to full pay after 18 weeks but I’m going Depot driving. I think mainline have to do 1 year on 80% pay at our TOC after the 18 weeks Before going on full whack.

The apprenticeship has worked good for me as going from depot driver to mainline at Nottingham is easier. There’s no intermediate course as we all do same rules, all we have to do is some high speed handling before mentoring and route learning.

It’s a 1 year program. You are not tied in so when a mainline job comes up at notts for me I can go even if it’s within that year.

Another thing we were told is that the end of apprenticeship exam is done by managers from a different TOC. I don’t know why this is.

:)
Thanks, much appreciated
 

TeaTrain

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I would of thought it will be tested via another TOC in order to ensure safety standards are met? I haven’t heard of that before though! Interesting!
 

Smigg92

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I would of thought it will be tested via another TOC in order to ensure safety standards are met? I haven’t heard of that before though! Interesting!
The Apprenticeship is tested by another TOC. Its slightly different at the minute with Covid, the assessment is done on a Zoom-Like platform with a Driver Manager from another TOC and an invigilator from an external assessment company. From personal experience, I have just completed the apprenticeship and it took around 1 and a half years to do my final assessment, but that time frame all depends on getting Maths, English and ICT passed, I already had mine.

I can't speak for the difference between the trainee and apprentice jobs advertised but the apprenticeship side of it involved doing a lot of the rules based learning in the classroom electronically in order to evidence it all towards the criteria of the apprenticeship. Following the classroom course, the apprenticeship side was more or less non existent to allow you to learn all the aspects of the actual job ... Traction etc. Then I got a date around 1 month before the final assessment to brush up, especially on freight related stuff because as a post above says, its a set standard for all rail companies I work for a TOC but your asked about everything.

As with everything some companies might run this slightly differently.. But it can't be that different as the whole idea of the apprenticeship is to standardise the process.
 

TeaTrain

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I see @Smigg92 thanks for the extensive reply. I’m currently on an apprenticeship with Train’d up but we were supposed to do our classroom stuff with them but now it’s being done internally.

TPE is doing the lot internally as far as I know. I have done my maths IT English functional skills and heard nothing since!
 

Smigg92

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I see @Smigg92 thanks for the extensive reply. I’m currently on an apprenticeship with Train’d up but we were supposed to do our classroom stuff with them but now it’s being done internally.

TPE is doing the lot internally as far as I know. I have done my maths IT English functional skills and heard nothing since!
Yeah everything was done internally with me too, apart from the End Point Assessment. As far as I'm aware the Functional skills are done externally through a local College for us.
 
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