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Trainee train driver assessment day

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Cheers guys . Any ideas on why dial no1 is numbered 1-20 or is it 1-25 (not sure) and all other Dials are numbered 1-100; no doubt it was explained in the cd / test booklet , but this is what threw me . I was pretty strong on practice with the 3 pie chart style ..
[/QUOTE]

My guess would be that the different scales used were so you took the time to check the numerical value it was pointing to.
If they were all say 0-100 you could then guess which priority to look at them by the physical angle of the pointer.

And I can’t be certain but pretty sure the scales changed the further you went on through the test.
 
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Island Dave

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this is what the test looked like on the day as you say the dials may have been different or changed further in to the test , you would then mark them correctly in order PHLC or similar I. Cant seem to find any examples online or practice material for this test with the 4 dials, Only a similar image on this website.
 

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Caad12

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this is what the test looked like on the day as you say the dials may have been different or changed further in to the test , you would then mark them correctly in order PHLC or similar I. Cant seem to find any examples online or practice material for this test with the 4 dials, Only a similar image on this website.

Nice one. P/H/L/C then for that diagram, innit?
 

William04

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Joined
19 Mar 2019
Messages
22
Hi everyone. I have my assessment end of the month. Any tips on how everyone practised for the tests. Is the practice leaflet they provide your best bet? Many thanks
 

trainbear

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Hi and congratulations on getting through to your assessment day!

I recently attended an assessment day with a TOC which accepts national standards.

I understand that many TOCs have around 20-25 people taking the tests on that day. The TOC which assessed me, however, assesses fewer people at once (8 were due to attend but only 5 did). Of the 5 who attended, two worked for the TOC in guard or ticket office roles, and at least one of the absentees, too.

The TOC should have e-mailed you an information pack telling you what tests would be conducted, the procedures for them and giving your ideas for practice before the day.

The tests are designed to be psychometric, hence they assess your capabilities. I saw that when doing the tests. There are some people I know who I think could practice full time and still never pass. It assesses inate abilities, although, of course, some practice in advance can help you a little.

Initially, we were asked to wait in a waiting room. We were asked 1-by-1 to go into an interview room where our identity, including NI number, was checked. We were also given a colour-blind test. In this test, you have to read the numbers which you can see in circles made of different colours. Warning: There are some trick ones! There are no numbers on some of them - don't try finding one, just say you can't see one!

When that was conducted, we were taken to a room where we each had a desk with stationery provided. I brought my own pens which I usually use which I find comfortable.

The first test was the Group Bourdon Test. There's a downloadable online tool you can find as a sticky on this forum. I initially started doing it online and then moved on to printing and doing them on paper. You do get used to the patterns of dots on the tool, and they are different on the actual test, although the skills are transferrable. There are various people on this forum who quote how many lines you need to complete and how many errors you can make to pass. I was doing about 9 or 10 lines on the printouts from the tool with only 1 or 2 mistakes per page and I passed. Be very sceptical of people who say you need to complete 14 or 15 lines with no more than one mistake! (Of course, some TOCs require enhanced testing, which may require slightly more.) There was also a practice section at the start. The practice grids in the information booklet were less helpful than the tool (using letters rather than dots).

We then had a break while the test was marked. One person was asked into the interview room to be told that he failed so he was sent home.

The next test was the Test of Everyday Attention (TEA-Occ). This measures attention to multiple things and how well you can multi-task.
Part 1 required us to listen to beeps (some with low tones, others with 'high' but I'd call them moderate-to-low). You will need to count just certain tones (can't remember if it was low or high). An example is available here, but there weren't so many tones for each question: https://traineetraindriverinfo.com/low-tones-test-track-1/
Part 2 required us to do some simple telephone directory work. I think it was finding companies in a particular trade with a rating of three stars and with a phone number with a particular area code. It wasn't rocket science and probably doesn't need much practising, but it is designed to make you work quickly. You might not finish and don't need to.
Part 3 was the hardest, combining both part 1 and part 2. You hear number 1 read out and a number of beeps (only one tone this time). You need to write the number down when told. This continues. At the same time, you have a telephone directory task similar to part 2. You are told that both parts are of equal importance. You must use different pens for both tasks. When doing it, I got a good sense that I was truly multi-tasking. It's a good test, actually!
The booklet gives you some activities to help you. Recognising symbols probably isn't too difficult for most people. If you have somebody who could play patterns of two tones on a keyboard or piano (written down first so the answers can be assessed), that might help you, and also if they can play similar tones while they asked you to do a reading task / telephone directory task / wordsearch. However, I didn't practise much for this test and I know some others didn't either, and we passed.

The next test was the Trainability for Rules and Procedures Test (TRP), Part 1 which assesses how well you can learn new things. The railway rulebook is huge for a start, and you will also need to learn about fault finding and repairing, not to mention route knowledge. We were given a two-page information sheet explaining how "GLOP" is applied to the rails using a locomotive and application vehicle operated by a driver and a guard, including what controls there are, the colours and locations of them, when they should be used, the signalling system between the driver and guard, etc. We also heard a recording of this. We then had to hand back the information sheet and answer questions on the procedure. I found this quite easy, but some people don't pick up new information well, especially when there is lots of details. They give a very clear example in the booklet sent before the day.
Part 2 is sometimes known as the dials test. You get sets of 3 dials with pointers pointing to the number on each dial, and you have to order them in order (I believe starting with the largest). However, each dial has a different number range (one might go from 0-150 and another might go 0-500) so in that example, halfway on the dial going up to 500 would read '250' but the whole way on the dial going up to 150 would be only '150'. You have 43 questions to complete in 8 minutes and I don't think that anybody ever completes them all. Apparently, you are scored for correct answers but not downgraded for any wrong answers.

The final written test was the Written Communication Test (WCT), although I understand that this is no longer compulsory and some TOCs no longer do this. We were given a cartoon strip showing a taxi booking, a taxi picking a person up on time, delays on the route, and arrival at destination late. We had to write what happened. The only thing that matters is clarity so your writing needs to be legible but not neat. You do not need to write in sentences - bullet points are acceptable. Grammar and spelling is not important if it does not obscure meaning. You can continue to look at the cartoon strip during the test - you do not need to turn it over or have it collected. I have been told that almost 100% pass this test - if your handwriting is legible and you can convey a simple story, even just in bullet points, you're fine!

Again, we were sent to the waiting room while the tests were marked - this took a long time (almost an hour, I think)!

The final tests were the computerised tests. There might not be one computer per person so some people might have to take the test while other people are waiting.

I think the first computerised test was the ATAVT Perception Test. You will view a picture of a street scene for approximately 0.5-1 second. You will then have to choose from the list what was in the picture from: pedestrians; motor vehicles (excluding motorcycles); bikes, motorcycles or scooters; road signs; traffic lights. There might be as few as one or as many as five in any one picture. Many pictures are busy scenes and you will notice the presence or absence of some things, but for most of the time, you will not be certain that you have got them all right - there will be some guesswork or subconcious decision-making involved. This will suit people who are observant and can process quickly.
This video will give you a good idea of the test, but I think the pictures disappear more quickly in the assessments than shown on this video:
Asking a friend or family member to download some pictures from the internet and test you on them (giving you only a brief peek) might help.

I think the second test was the 2Hand Co-Ordination Test. You will have two joysticks, one will only go up and down, and the other will only go left and right. You have to control a ball around a track trying not to let it go off of the grey track, which includes curved sections. You will hear a screech when it does. This is repeated many times. It is aimed to be difficult and most people will not keep it on the track all the way around. We all thought we did really badly on this!

The final test was the WAFV (Vigilance) Test. You will see a grey square flashing on the screen. When it changes colour to a different shade of grey, you press the large green button as quickly as possible. This continues for 30 minutes, sometimes for long periods between changing. Also, your eyes imagine it changing when it doesn't. It's a good assessment because if you can't concentrate on being vigilant for 30 minutes, being in charged of a train might not be a good idea! When your eyes lose focus, move closer to or further away from the screen. Also, surprisingly, the colour changes aren't random but pre-programmed. Therefore if one person starts their test, another starts two seconds later and another starts to seconds later, you will hear the first person press their button, then about two seconds later the next person, and another two seconds later the next person.

We were then asked to wait in the waiting room again while the results were generated.

Finally, we were congratulated for passing the tests and advised about the next procedures in the application process. We were also given some basic pieces of advice for the DMI.

Hope that this is helpful. Feel free to ask any further questions!
legend!!
 

William04

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2019
Messages
22
Also this is a random one. Did anyone quit alcohol leasing up to there test day. I drink once a week and wondering if cutting it out completely helps?
 

William04

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Joined
19 Mar 2019
Messages
22
Hi everyone. I’ve got my assessment coming up and a way of practicing the test of everyday attention (TEA-Occ) where you listen to tones and look through a telephone directory I’ve been recording high and low times on a piano. I just wanted to ask does anybody know how far apart roughy each tone is? Is it quick? Just want to get the recording similar. Many thanks
 

Sr123

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19 Nov 2019
Messages
22
Location
Newcastle
There’s as minimal as a gap as possible between each tone id say. think, there IS a gap otherwise it would be constant, but it’s as short a gap as possible without it being constant lol
Makes sense to me sorry
 

Fredytrains

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Joined
2 Nov 2018
Messages
43
Hi everyone. I’ve got my assessment coming up and a way of practicing the test of everyday attention (TEA-Occ) where you listen to tones and look through a telephone directory I’ve been recording high and low times on a piano. I just wanted to ask does anybody know how far apart roughy each tone is? Is it quick? Just want to get the recording similar. Many thanks
You only have high and low tones in part 1,really simple task this one, tones are about 0.5-2 seconds apart.. part 2 is “only” marking double symbols (no beeps - no counting)part 3 is counting the tones and marking symbols, in part 3 there is only one tone type to count “basically you just count everything you hear whilst marking double symbols” theese again are about 1-2 seconds appart.
this test is pretty straight forward, each set of tones is beetween 3-12 “ish” long with around 8 sets to answer if I remember and you just write you answer when tones stop.
What depot are you down for ?
 
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William04

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Joined
19 Mar 2019
Messages
22
There’s as minimal as a gap as possible between each tone id say. think, there IS a gap otherwise it would be constant, but it’s as short a gap as possible without it being constant lol
Makes sense to me sorry
Ok mate thanks.
 

William04

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Joined
19 Mar 2019
Messages
22
You only have high and low tones in part 1,really simple task this one, tones are about 0.5-2 seconds apart.. part 2 is “only” marking double symbols (no beeps - no counting)part 3 is counting the tones and marking symbols, in part 3 there is only one tone type to count “basically you just count everything you hear whilst marking double symbols” theese again are about 1-2 seconds appart.
this test is pretty straight forward, each set of tones is beetween 3-12 “ish” long with around 8 sets to answer if I remember and you just write you answer when tones stop.
What depot are you down for ?
Ok mate cheers. Did you just count in your head or you allowed to write down? Also while I remember the Vienna test system does that have the Mechanical Comprehension Test on? (Just so I know I need to prepare) thanks again
 

William04

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19 Mar 2019
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22
Ok mate cheers. Did you just count in your head or you allowed to write down? Also while I remember the Vienna test system does that have the Mechanical Comprehension Test on? (Just so I know I need to prepare) thanks again
Oh and Bletchley West Midlands
 
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Messages
988
Ok mate cheers. Did you just count in your head or you allowed to write down? Also while I remember the Vienna test system does that have the Mechanical Comprehension Test on? (Just so I know I need to prepare) thanks again

You can't write them down so you'll need to count them in your head (or on your fingers!)
 

William04

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2019
Messages
22
You can't write them down so you'll need to count them in your head (or on your fingers!)
Ok thanks for the info. Also do you know if the mechanical comprehension test is on the Vienna test system. Sorry for all the questions just handy speaking to someone who’s done it.
 
Joined
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Messages
988
Ok thanks for the info. Also do you know if the mechanical comprehension test is on the Vienna test system. Sorry for all the questions just handy speaking to someone who’s done it.

I don't recall doing a mechanical comprehension test so I can't really help you there. All the tests I did are listed on the 1st page of this thread and are also detailed in the practice materials which you should get from the TOC when you are invited to the assessment day. What I would say is not to worry unduly about them as the only one worthwhile spending any time practicing is the Group Bourdon. With the others you either have the aptitude or you don't (IMO)
 

William04

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2019
Messages
22
Ok mate. I’ve practised that a lot doing about 12 lines in 2 mins without mistakes but obviously will keep on practicing. I go over practice material a few hours a day so no harm in practicing it all I guess. Will let you know how I get on
 

Sebby

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
23
Location
York
Hi and congratulations on getting through to your assessment day!

I recently attended an assessment day with a TOC which accepts national standards.

I understand that many TOCs have around 20-25 people taking the tests on that day. The TOC which assessed me, however, assesses fewer people at once (8 were due to attend but only 5 did). Of the 5 who attended, two worked for the TOC in guard or ticket office roles, and at least one of the absentees, too.

The TOC should have e-mailed you an information pack telling you what tests would be conducted, the procedures for them and giving your ideas for practice before the day.

The tests are designed to be psychometric, hence they assess your capabilities. I saw that when doing the tests. There are some people I know who I think could practice full time and still never pass. It assesses inate abilities, although, of course, some practice in advance can help you a little.

Initially, we were asked to wait in a waiting room. We were asked 1-by-1 to go into an interview room where our identity, including NI number, was checked. We were also given a colour-blind test. In this test, you have to read the numbers which you can see in circles made of different colours. Warning: There are some trick ones! There are no numbers on some of them - don't try finding one, just say you can't see one!

When that was conducted, we were taken to a room where we each had a desk with stationery provided. I brought my own pens which I usually use which I find comfortable.

The first test was the Group Bourdon Test. There's a downloadable online tool you can find as a sticky on this forum. I initially started doing it online and then moved on to printing and doing them on paper. You do get used to the patterns of dots on the tool, and they are different on the actual test, although the skills are transferrable. There are various people on this forum who quote how many lines you need to complete and how many errors you can make to pass. I was doing about 9 or 10 lines on the printouts from the tool with only 1 or 2 mistakes per page and I passed. Be very sceptical of people who say you need to complete 14 or 15 lines with no more than one mistake! (Of course, some TOCs require enhanced testing, which may require slightly more.) There was also a practice section at the start. The practice grids in the information booklet were less helpful than the tool (using letters rather than dots).

We then had a break while the test was marked. One person was asked into the interview room to be told that he failed so he was sent home.

The next test was the Test of Everyday Attention (TEA-Occ). This measures attention to multiple things and how well you can multi-task.
Part 1 required us to listen to beeps (some with low tones, others with 'high' but I'd call them moderate-to-low). You will need to count just certain tones (can't remember if it was low or high). An example is available here, but there weren't so many tones for each question: https://traineetraindriverinfo.com/low-tones-test-track-1/
Part 2 required us to do some simple telephone directory work. I think it was finding companies in a particular trade with a rating of three stars and with a phone number with a particular area code. It wasn't rocket science and probably doesn't need much practising, but it is designed to make you work quickly. You might not finish and don't need to.
Part 3 was the hardest, combining both part 1 and part 2. You hear number 1 read out and a number of beeps (only one tone this time). You need to write the number down when told. This continues. At the same time, you have a telephone directory task similar to part 2. You are told that both parts are of equal importance. You must use different pens for both tasks. When doing it, I got a good sense that I was truly multi-tasking. It's a good test, actually!
The booklet gives you some activities to help you. Recognising symbols probably isn't too difficult for most people. If you have somebody who could play patterns of two tones on a keyboard or piano (written down first so the answers can be assessed), that might help you, and also if they can play similar tones while they asked you to do a reading task / telephone directory task / wordsearch. However, I didn't practise much for this test and I know some others didn't either, and we passed.

The next test was the Trainability for Rules and Procedures Test (TRP), Part 1 which assesses how well you can learn new things. The railway rulebook is huge for a start, and you will also need to learn about fault finding and repairing, not to mention route knowledge. We were given a two-page information sheet explaining how "GLOP" is applied to the rails using a locomotive and application vehicle operated by a driver and a guard, including what controls there are, the colours and locations of them, when they should be used, the signalling system between the driver and guard, etc. We also heard a recording of this. We then had to hand back the information sheet and answer questions on the procedure. I found this quite easy, but some people don't pick up new information well, especially when there is lots of details. They give a very clear example in the booklet sent before the day.
Part 2 is sometimes known as the dials test. You get sets of 3 dials with pointers pointing to the number on each dial, and you have to order them in order (I believe starting with the largest). However, each dial has a different number range (one might go from 0-150 and another might go 0-500) so in that example, halfway on the dial going up to 500 would read '250' but the whole way on the dial going up to 150 would be only '150'. You have 43 questions to complete in 8 minutes and I don't think that anybody ever completes them all. Apparently, you are scored for correct answers but not downgraded for any wrong answers.

The final written test was the Written Communication Test (WCT), although I understand that this is no longer compulsory and some TOCs no longer do this. We were given a cartoon strip showing a taxi booking, a taxi picking a person up on time, delays on the route, and arrival at destination late. We had to write what happened. The only thing that matters is clarity so your writing needs to be legible but not neat. You do not need to write in sentences - bullet points are acceptable. Grammar and spelling is not important if it does not obscure meaning. You can continue to look at the cartoon strip during the test - you do not need to turn it over or have it collected. I have been told that almost 100% pass this test - if your handwriting is legible and you can convey a simple story, even just in bullet points, you're fine!

Again, we were sent to the waiting room while the tests were marked - this took a long time (almost an hour, I think)!

The final tests were the computerised tests. There might not be one computer per person so some people might have to take the test while other people are waiting.

I think the first computerised test was the ATAVT Perception Test. You will view a picture of a street scene for approximately 0.5-1 second. You will then have to choose from the list what was in the picture from: pedestrians; motor vehicles (excluding motorcycles); bikes, motorcycles or scooters; road signs; traffic lights. There might be as few as one or as many as five in any one picture. Many pictures are busy scenes and you will notice the presence or absence of some things, but for most of the time, you will not be certain that you have got them all right - there will be some guesswork or subconcious decision-making involved. This will suit people who are observant and can process quickly.
This video will give you a good idea of the test, but I think the pictures disappear more quickly in the assessments than shown on this video:
Asking a friend or family member to download some pictures from the internet and test you on them (giving you only a brief peek) might help.

I think the second test was the 2Hand Co-Ordination Test. You will have two joysticks, one will only go up and down, and the other will only go left and right. You have to control a ball around a track trying not to let it go off of the grey track, which includes curved sections. You will hear a screech when it does. This is repeated many times. It is aimed to be difficult and most people will not keep it on the track all the way around. We all thought we did really badly on this!

The final test was the WAFV (Vigilance) Test. You will see a grey square flashing on the screen. When it changes colour to a different shade of grey, you press the large green button as quickly as possible. This continues for 30 minutes, sometimes for long periods between changing. Also, your eyes imagine it changing when it doesn't. It's a good assessment because if you can't concentrate on being vigilant for 30 minutes, being in charged of a train might not be a good idea! When your eyes lose focus, move closer to or further away from the screen. Also, surprisingly, the colour changes aren't random but pre-programmed. Therefore if one person starts their test, another starts two seconds later and another starts to seconds later, you will hear the first person press their button, then about two seconds later the next person, and another two seconds later the next person.

We were then asked to wait in the waiting room again while the results were generated.

Finally, we were congratulated for passing the tests and advised about the next procedures in the application process. We were also given some basic pieces of advice for the DMI.

Hope that this is helpful. Feel free to ask any further questions!

Hi, I have an assessment soon...well hopefully, my original date was put back due to going into lock down. This information you have kindly provided is golden! must admit, its the ATAVT test i am least looking forward too!
 

Driver2B

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2018
Messages
224
Hi, I have an assessment soon...well hopefully, my original date was put back due to going into lock down. This information you have kindly provided is golden! must admit, its the ATAVT test i am least looking forward too!


Good luck on your assessment! Sorry to hear that your date was put back, but the recruitment will still be going ahead!

Glad that the information was useful - hope it helps you!

Don't worry too much about the ATAVT Perception Test - they don't expect you to get 100% and probably nobody does. There will be a certain amount of guessing or sub-concious decision making involved, and as long as you are fairly observant, you should be fine. I've not heard of many people failing this.

I've heard of more people fail the Group Bourdon than anything else, and I would recommend that's the most useful to practise.

Anyway good luck! :)
 

Manda2194

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Joined
30 Apr 2020
Messages
171
Location
north west
Good luck on your assessment! Sorry to hear that your date was put back, but the recruitment will still be going ahead!

Glad that the information was useful - hope it helps you!

Don't worry too much about the ATAVT Perception Test - they don't expect you to get 100% and probably nobody does. There will be a certain amount of guessing or sub-concious decision making involved, and as long as you are fairly observant, you should be fine. I've not heard of many people failing this.

I've heard of more people fail the Group Bourdon than anything else, and I would recommend that's the most useful to practise.

Anyway good luck! :)

This actually raises a really good issue which I am keen to get people's thoughts on. Which part of the test do people find the most challenging? Reading this forum it seems the group bordon is where or MMI is where most people fall down. I dont remember many people saying they failed the computer test which I would have thought is the most challenging.

completely agree this thread is incredibly useful.
 

Driver2B

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2018
Messages
224
This actually raises a really good issue which I am keen to get people's thoughts on. Which part of the test do people find the most challenging? Reading this forum it seems the group bordon is where or MMI is where most people fall down. I dont remember many people saying they failed the computer test which I would have thought is the most challenging.

completely agree this thread is incredibly useful.


From what I've heard, it seems that the Group Bourdon and the MMI are most challenging for most. Those are the two that I would really recommend people practise and prepare for the most!
 

Sebby

Member
Joined
1 Jul 2020
Messages
23
Location
York
From what I've heard, it seems that the Group Bourdon and the MMI are most challenging for most. Those are the two that I would really recommend people practise and prepare for the most!
I have been practicing the Bourdon Test and rightfully so, i have missed 1 or 2 but never highlighted an incorrect cell. I enjoy the "checking tests", anything that requires a logical approach i quite enjoy.

I will be sure to update you on the outcome, thank you
 

Driver2B

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2018
Messages
224
I have been practicing the Bourdon Test and rightfully so, i have missed 1 or 2 but never highlighted an incorrect cell. I enjoy the "checking tests", anything that requires a logical approach i quite enjoy.

I will be sure to update you on the outcome, thank you


Great to hear that you've been practising the Group Bourdon test - very rightfully so!

On paper, I presume? I'd always recommend people use the computer tool to start with to get to grips with the task and get up a bit of speed, then move onto paper as that's what the real test will be like, and it is a different experience. Obviously, paper tests mean marking takes a bit longer, and making a little more investment in paper and ink, but worthwhile in my opinion.

I found that I would miss one much, much more often than mark an incorrect one, too! I also noticed that I tended to miss them towards the start and end of a line, or when very near to another one / other ones which I did mark. Noticing this gave me the opportunity to improve further!

Yes, please do share the outcome with us - looking forward to congratulating you! :)
 

richfoz84

Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
343
From what I've heard, it seems that the Group Bourdon and the MMI are most challenging for most. Those are the two that I would really recommend people practise and prepare for the most!
I’d agree with this
 

Stigy

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Joined
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Messages
4,879
I’d agree with this
I found the Group Bourden the easiest by far. The DFFT was hardest for me but admittedly not all TOCs do this. The MMI I agree can be a challenge and probably the easiest to fail?
 

PickleTree

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I found the Group Bourden the easiest by far. The DFFT was hardest for me but admittedly not all TOCs do this. The MMI I agree can be a challenge and probably the easiest to fail?
I agree with @Stigy the MMI is the easiest to fail and the toughest element by far IMO. I found all the paper and computer based tests straight forward enough with the 2 handed joystick challenge being the trickiest purely down to there being no real way to practice this one and they take a couple of attempts to get used to.
 
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