Trainee Train Driver (and now qualified/'part-qualified') - Newcastle - East Coast Trains

[60074]

Probably wouldn’t expect anyone to answer that publicly in case of confidentiality clauses.

Just some food for thought that’s all...

 

[P444]

First UK Careers

First UK Careers, uk, careers, jobs, bus driver, train driver, engineer

uk.firstgroupcareers.com

East Coast Trains are looking for part qualified train drivers. Suit those with driving competence but without the ETDL.

 

[Mr Pickle]

Forgive my ignorance, but why would some qualified drivers have a European licence, and others not have one? Is it not standard issue?

 

[heedfan]

Forgive my ignorance, but why would some qualified drivers have a European licence, and others not have one? Is it not standard issue?

Depot drivers are often partly rules trained.

 

[theironroad]

First UK Careers

First UK Careers, uk, careers, jobs, bus driver, train driver, engineer

uk.firstgroupcareers.com

East Coast Trains are looking for part qualified train drivers. Suit those with driving competence but without the ETDL.

A few comments:

A 'customer driver' rather than a train driver???? Hope they never need to work ecs.

Need to make announcements - sounds like might be a variety of DOO

Competitive salary???

Lodging?

Pension - seems like they want to shake that up from the traditional toc final salary scheme

"You will already be a Qualified Train Driver who doesn't hold a European Train Driving Licence."

They want a driver with their key (qualified) but no etdl. I don't think that's possible. The plastic part that is for the driver should be issued on qualifying and is drivers personal issue by orr and thats the etdl. The paper counterpart that covers routes and traction is issued by the toc or other authorised operator and remains their property although a copy must be carried by the driver. Obviously they would issue that.



"Challenging and disrupting industry norms" almost sounds like code for , we'd rather you weren't bothered by all that union collective bargaining stuff.

Also, a brave time for a open access operator to be going ahead in next couple of years.

Edit: in light of post #3, that could be what they are after as I'm pretty sure depot driver's don't get etdl.

 

[heedfan]

Regarding lodging, when I interviewed for the trainee role for this I was told that two thirds of the turns involved lodging overnight in London.

I also got the distinct impression, when I asked about salary and ASLEF involvement, that they were unimpressed and we're looking to do things 'differently'.

 

[P444]

Depot drivers, light rail, test drivers, tube / metro etc all would be classed as part qualified as they do not or may not hold the ETDL.

 

[heedfan]

I would imagine they are looking to hook a load of Metro drivers over with this, seeing as it's a Newcastle role.

 

[ainsworth74]

Pension - seems like they want to shake that up from the traditional toc final salary scheme

I could be wrong but I don't think that's unual on an open access operator. I'm fairly certain that Grand Central staff are on an Arriva wide defined contribution pension rather than the more traditional (at least on the railway!) final salary scheme.

Regarding lodging, when I interviewed for the trainee role for this I was told that two thirds of the turns involved lodging overnight in London.

Would make sense if as there's been no sign (that I've seen) of them setting up depots in London!

 

[Trogladyte]

Avoid this job role like the plague. Sounds like they’d treat their drivers like c**p.

 

[60074]

I would imagine they are looking to hook a load of Metro drivers over with this, seeing as it's a Newcastle role.

100%

 

[Stigy]

Interesting titles for train drivers, but vacancies nonetheless. Don’t think this has been posted before?

First UK Careers

First UK Careers, uk, careers, jobs, bus driver, train driver, engineer

uk.firstgroupcareers.com

 

[Firestarter]

Interesting titles for train drivers, but vacancies nonetheless. Don’t think this has been posted before?

First UK Careers

First UK Careers, uk, careers, jobs, bus driver, train driver, engineer

uk.firstgroupcareers.com

it’s posted in the Trainee Driver Thread

 

[60074]

it’s posted in the Trainee Driver Thread

Do you have a link to this thread please? Struggling to find it

Over the last few days a lot has been said about ECTL. Are we now saying then that they’re anti union and planning to introduce a full DOO?

 

[heedfan]

Do you have a link to this thread please? Struggling to find it

Over the last few days a lot has been said about ECTL. Are we now saying then that they’re anti union and planning to introduce a full DOO?

It's this thread - they are being merged.

 

[Stigy]

it’s posted in the Trainee Driver Thread

Thanks for the head’s up....only place I didn’t check

 

[whoosh]

I expect the Government will be delighted if DOO can be introduced on the ECML on long distance trains, as a precedent will be set.

I expect ASLEF recognition at the company will eventually take place, but that will probably ("hopefully" for the company and the Government) take place after services start. Once DOO is in.

If T&W Metro drivers are a target for recruitment, they are already used to Driver Only work.

 

[MRIGuy]

The first steps of the application are somewhat contradictory.

To ensure we can proceed with your application, you must be able to answer ‘Yes’ in response to the statements below:

• I have a current right to live and work in the UK and will be able to provide proof of this should you offer me a position with East Coast Trains Ltd,
• I hold a current EU Train Driver Licence,
• I currently live within 60 minutes travelling distance of Newcastle, based on normal traffic conditions, or I am willing to relocate to meet this requirement.

However in the main job description under the about you section the advert reads...

You will already be a Qualified Train Driver who doesn't hold a European Train Driving Licence

Dare I ask, do First actually know what/who they are looking for with an advert of this nature?

 

[Stigy]

The first steps of the application are somewhat contradictory.

To ensure we can proceed with your application, you must be able to answer ‘Yes’ in response to the statements below:

• I have a current right to live and work in the UK and will be able to provide proof of this should you offer me a position with East Coast Trains Ltd,
• I hold a current EU Train Driver Licence,
• I currently live within 60 minutes travelling distance of Newcastle, based on normal traffic conditions, or I am willing to relocate to meet this requirement.

However in the main job description under the about you section the advert reads...

You will already be a Qualified Train Driver who doesn't hold a European Train Driving Licence

Dare I ask, do First actually know what/who they are looking for with an advert of this nature?

I think they need to be more transparent here. You’re right in that it seems contradictory. In fact, it’s not worded very well in general. If they are referring to drivers of light rail/underground etc when they say you don’t have to hold a European Train Driving Licence, then they should probably state that somewhere to save confusion.

 

[172345]

Would this not be for trainee drivers who have passed out on rules but haven't completed mentoring hours thus not having ETDL..

 

[MRIGuy]

Would this not be for trainee drivers who have passed out on rules but haven't completed mentoring hours thus not having ETDL..

I'm not sure, however the point I was trying to make and perhaps I've not made this clear is that the advert is contradictory.

If a trainee driver has passed rules but does not yet have ETDL then they cannot apply as they are unable to answer yes to the three statements I have copied above.

 

[lammergeier]

The first steps of the application are somewhat contradictory.

To ensure we can proceed with your application, you must be able to answer ‘Yes’ in response to the statements below:

• I have a current right to live and work in the UK and will be able to provide proof of this should you offer me a position with East Coast Trains Ltd,
• I hold a current EU Train Driver Licence,
• I currently live within 60 minutes travelling distance of Newcastle, based on normal traffic conditions, or I am willing to relocate to meet this requirement.

However in the main job description under the about you section the advert reads...

You will already be a Qualified Train Driver who doesn't hold a European Train Driving Licence

Dare I ask, do First actually know what/who they are looking for with an advert of this nature?

That's pretty poor. I imagine they'll expect better attention to detail from their "customer drivers."

 

[Kentp]

Congratulations to everyone who was successful! I really do hope that everything works out for you all.

Is there any word regarding operational method of work? Guarded or DOO? I personally expect the latter to come in.

Also, has there been any union recognition within your training program? You wouldn’t drive a car without insurance.

Is a 125mph train, potentially running from London to Edinburgh with just a driver deemed safe??

I really hope that these bases have been covered and not left to chance?

I've heard from a first group contact, but not an ECTL contact, that these trains will be guarded. Has anyone got anymore information?

Also what is the pay scale? Will it be more or less than TPE?

 

[Tom Quinne]

It’s funny, if you the candidate submitted an application to the standard of their job description you’d be laughed out of the process.

With the history of Wrexham & Shropshire, Grand Central’s Blackpool operation and both Hull Trains and Grand Central both looking very very risky why would anyone with any sense even consider this operation?

Key and jump job I’d assume, if your lucky enough to get that far of course - read the poor souls part way through their course at the Blackpool operation.

 

[Driver068]

From a Newcastle point of view i can only see Metro driverd not having a EDL.

Depot drivers i dont believe as classed as Qualified drivers, i dont beleive they'll be able to apply, however i maybe wrong.

It seems to me that these recent advertisements are aimed at Qualified drivers from other mainline TOCs and also Metro drivers in Newcastle. However saying that I dont understand why. When TPE were looking for drivers in 2019, they took aload on for Qualified roles. From what i have heard, any metro drivers moving to another TOC have to do all or part of class room training for rules. This maybe the reason why LNER, NORTHERN and XC do not recognise metro drivers as Qualified drivers. So maybe this is the Part Qualified vacancy.
Xp
Why would you avoid the job like the plauge???
Surely any opportunity to work on the railways is a good one. Also as for treating staff like cr*p, whats this based on??

The salary is stared as competitive, but yeah competitive with who??
I dont expect it to be with LNER but maybe HT and GC. Id imaging it will be more than Northern drivers and probably in line with TPE. It would not surprise me if its around the 60k mark.

Whos to say in coming years the risks have paid off. Wrexham and Shropshire members of staff, as stated in another thread, managed to get jobs elsewhere with another company, as did GC staff on the proposed Blackpool depot. HT although have halted services but have recently recruited Qualified drivers. GC staff from Jan 2020 recruitment have either gone back to the Metro or another TOC. Although its not a gurantee it is possible to be taken elsewhere if all fails.

A good indication will be how HT and GC manage and c into 2021.

I work o7 xx x.n the railways myself and i try and see arguments on both sides of discussions to establish a balance opinion.
n I. H
With ECTLs 3 year business plan, if the covid19 pandemic was going to have a massive effect on the start up of the company, then why not delay it like GC have done with the Blackpool depot/route. Id hatw to think jobs were already being put at risk when knowingly ECTL wont survive.

 

[60074]

ECTLs trains aren’t even fully built yet, they don’t start operating until at least October 2021, i’d assume they’re hoping covid will have blown over by then? Their plan was always to start in October 2021, so you could say that so far everything is still on target?

 

[TJ123]

I see ECTL are again looking for qualified train drivers, sorry customer drivers and customer driver instructors. I take it they are struggling to recruit qualified drivers then, I would imagine this to be the case when you have a range of TOCs to choose from. Would this role be suited more for trainees?

I know ECTL are trying to shake things up, but I've noticed the roles seem to be changing on a constant basis. Taking a look at the driving instructor role, it talks about doing investigations being on call etc would that not be part of a driver managers role?

I was chatting to a driver from Northern who applied for the customer experience operations manager job, as it was listed as a driver manager's job, he never got it but he said was not clear as half way through it was then listed as a depot managers job had he of known it was a depot managers job would not of bothered to of applied, I also noticed this.

Any one on here who has just joined as driver maybe explain, interested to know how its going.

 

[WarJan]

I see ECTL are again looking for qualified train drivers, sorry customer drivers and customer driver instructors. I take it they are struggling to recruit qualified drivers then, I would imagine this to be the case when you have a range of TOCs to choose from. Would this role be suited more for trainees?

I know ECTL are trying to shake things up, but I've noticed the roles seem to be changing on a constant basis. Taking a look at the driving instructor role, it talks about doing investigations being on call etc would that not be part of a driver managers role?

I was chatting to a driver from Northern who applied for the customer experience operations manager job, as it was listed as a driver manager's job, he never got it but he said was not clear as half way through it was then listed as a depot managers job had he of known it was a depot managers job would not of bothered to of applied, I also noticed this.

Any one on here who has just joined as driver maybe explain, interested to know how its going.

Due to devastating effects of the pandemic, our colleagues from Hull Trains and GC East have had huge difficulties with job protection of all staff including drivers, plus the redundancies of all staff on Grand Central West for the Blackpool axed route, I would strongly advise anyone who is a driver or below, stick with your franchised TOC.

Open access will not recover from this pandemic and TSSA, RMT and Aslef have advised me “we have had staff leave their positions from LNER, AWC, GWR and SWR” to join GC West who have had their contracts terminated who were due to be based at Blackpool North in various roles onboard and back office. It appears ECTL from already Bankrupt FirstGroup, will most certainly be axed next year so I would strongly advise anyone whatever role you are in, stay with your franchised TOC.

Many TOCs are struggling to start their current Trainee drivers, an Open Access TOC is a major risk for anyone joining from a franchised TOC.
Merry Christmas to you all.

 

[KJ83]

Due to devastating effects of the pandemic, our colleagues from Hull Trains and GC East have had huge difficulties with job protection of all staff including drivers, plus the redundancies of all staff on Grand Central West for the Blackpool axed route, I would strongly advise anyone who is a driver or below, stick with your franchised TOC.

Open access will not recover from this pandemic and TSSA, RMT and Aslef have advised me “we have had staff leave their positions from LNER, AWC, GWR and SWR” to join GC West who have had their contracts terminated who were due to be based at Blackpool North in various roles onboard and back office. It appears ECTL from already Bankrupt FirstGroup, will most certainly be axed next year so I would strongly advise anyone whatever role you are in, stay with your franchised TOC.

Many TOCs are struggling to start their current Trainee drivers, an Open Access TOC is a major risk for anyone joining from a franchised TOC.
Merry Christmas to you all.

What an absolute load of rubbish!

I have a friend at the new ECTL and its got major financial backing from First who are fully committed to this OA TOC.

I personally wish them and all their new drivers all the success, I think they'll be a good little outfit from what I'm hearing.

 

[Trogladyte]

Due to devastating effects of the pandemic, our colleagues from Hull Trains and GC East have had huge difficulties with job protection of all staff including drivers, plus the redundancies of all staff on Grand Central West for the Blackpool axed route, I would strongly advise anyone who is a driver or below, stick with your franchised TOC.

Open access will not recover from this pandemic and TSSA, RMT and Aslef have advised me “we have had staff leave their positions from LNER, AWC, GWR and SWR” to join GC West who have had their contracts terminated who were due to be based at Blackpool North in various roles onboard and back office. It appears ECTL from already Bankrupt FirstGroup, will most certainly be axed next year so I would strongly advise anyone whatever role you are in, stay with your franchised TOC.

Many TOCs are struggling to start their current Trainee drivers, an Open Access TOC is a major risk for anyone joining from a franchised TOC.
Merry Christmas to you all.

i agree. Trust me from experience don’t join an open access!!