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Trainee Train Driver - Virgin Trains East Coast

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Some depots are now oversubscribed, and with the new trains being delayed due to the infrastructure not being upgraded on time, recruitment at certain depots has been put on hold for the foreseeable.

Where have you heard this? Are you currently a trainee?
 
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FManc

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Some depots are now oversubscribed, and with the new trains being delayed due to the infrastructure not being upgraded on time, recruitment at certain depots has been put on hold for the foreseeable.

I don't suppose you know which depots are oversubscribed?
 

Blanka

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Edinburgh oversubscribed? Not likely, many jobs getting covered by overtime and still a number of retirements upcoming. Can't comment on the other depots. The issue is getting the required number of driver trainers. They are mobbed at the moment trying to get through the current trainees.
 

Lincdsg

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Not being able to take/ postponing my offer for the October start date isn't looking like the best decision now lol. Have to laugh or I'll cry
 

156484

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Edinburgh oversubscribed? Not likely, many jobs getting covered by overtime and still a number of retirements upcoming. Can't comment on the other depots. The issue is getting the required number of driver trainers. They are mobbed at the moment trying to get through the current trainees.
Do you work at Edinburgh?
 

Tyrion

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Edinburgh oversubscribed? Not likely, many jobs getting covered by overtime and still a number of retirements upcoming. Can't comment on the other depots. The issue is getting the required number of driver trainers. They are mobbed at the moment trying to get through the current trainees.

Once Current ex TOC drivers and Trainees are passed out in summer, Edinburgh will be well over subscribed by around 10 drivers, Newcastle has never seen the amount of spare drivers kicking about!

To the guys waiting you are caught between a rock and a hard place but personally I would be applying for other TOCs whilst waiting otherwise you may miss out on a driving career for quite a while if you don’t
 

156484

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Once Current ex TOC drivers and Trainees are passed out in summer, Edinburgh will be well over subscribed by around 10 drivers, Newcastle has never seen the amount of spare drivers kicking about!

To the guys waiting you are caught between a rock and a hard place but personally I would be applying for other TOCs whilst waiting otherwise you may miss out on a driving career for quite a while if you don’t
☝️☝️☝️☝️
What he said.
 

FManc

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I imagine we're gonna find out soon what's going on. In that respect at least we'll know where we stand. It might put a hold on everything or perhaps they'll fill where there's still a business need.....who knows!
 
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I imagine we're gonna find out soon what's going on. In that respect at least we'll know where we stand. It might put a hold on everything or perhaps they'll fill where there's still a business need.....who knows!

I have been following another thread on a different section of the forum where they are talking about the ECML and I decided to post about our current positions waiting for start dates. A couple of people have replied saying that we will still be required and that the human resources and talent team is most likely to still be in place whether another business or the government takes over the reigns. Hopefully this is the case so we are not forgotten about. I think the problem at the moment is knowing whether the azumas will still come into operation on the ECML and whether the planned service expansion will happen, if it doesn't we may then not be required.

With the complexity of the situation I can imagine that Virgin may not even know what is happening at the moment which is why we haven't had an update and I won't be expecting any news for at least a few weeks while everything is up in the air.

Also on the west coast the share between Virgin and stagecoach is much more equal (I think it is 51 to 49%) and it seems to be in a lot better shape than the east coast. Can anyone shed any light onto whether virgin can/may increase their share on the east coast or take full control in order to keep hold of the franchise? I'm sure I have read this somewhere but I may be wrong, I've taken in a lot of information and read a lot of conflicting opinions since last night whilst trying to make a lot more sense of the situation.
 

FManc

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I have been following another thread on a different section of the forum where they are talking about the ECML and I decided to post about our current positions waiting for start dates. A couple of people have replied saying that we will still be required and that the human resources and talent team is most likely to still be in place whether another business or the government takes over the reigns. Hopefully this is the case so we are not forgotten about. I think the problem at the moment is knowing whether the azumas will still come into operation on the ECML and whether the planned service expansion will happen, if it doesn't we may then not be required.

With the complexity of the situation I can imagine that Virgin may not even know what is happening at the moment which is why we haven't had an update and I won't be expecting any news for at least a few weeks while everything is up in the air.

Also on the west coast the share between Virgin and stagecoach is much more equal (I think it is 51 to 49%) and it seems to be in a lot better shape than the east coast. Can anyone shed any light onto whether virgin can/may increase their share on the east coast or take full control in order to keep hold of the franchise? I'm sure I have read this somewhere but I may be wrong, I've taken in a lot of information and read a lot of conflicting opinions since last night whilst trying to make a lot more sense of the situation.

The Azuma's will be coming in no matter who is running the ECML. It's a DfT progamme that is introducing the Class 800s rather than VTEC itself. They just won't be called "Azuma" anymore as that's a Virgin PR spin. In terms of network enhancements it's anyone's guess. There are more Class 800s being introduced than combined HSTs/Class 91s so they're eventually going to have to do something with the extra sets. At this stage I can't see them changing the order either. Obviously timescales have slipped so the enhancements might be introduced a few years down the line, but it doesn't seem likely for the May 2019 timetable change.

Virgin Group won't in a million years want full ownership of East Coast. Its not as lucrative £££ wise compared to West Coast which is a massive money making machine for them. Virgin only have a 10% share as it is in East Coast which is mostly for the Virgin brand.
 
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The Azuma's will be coming in no matter who is running the ECML. It's a DfT progamme that is introducing the Class 800s rather than VTEC itself. They just won't be called "Azuma" anymore as that's a Virgin PR spin. In terms of network enhancements it's anyone's guess. There are more Class 800s being introduced than combined HSTs/Class 91s so they're eventually going to have to do something with the extra sets. At this stage I can't see them changing the order either. Obviously timescales have slipped so the enhancements might be introduced a few years down the line, but it doesn't seem likely for the May 2019 timetable change.

Virgin Group won't in a million years want full ownership of East Coast. Its not as lucrative £££ wise compared to West Coast which is a massive money making machine for them. Virgin only have a 10% share as it is in East Coast which is mostly for the Virgin brand.

If the class 800s are to be introduced then that is good news for us. I was reading on another thread that if the government take on the ECML then it is quite possible they will not introduce the 800s on the ECML and that they will end up elsewhere. In fairness it seems that nearly every post in that other thread is opinion based anyway so take it with a pinch of salt.

We are just going to have to keep waiting until we get an update. Has anybody contacted virgin following this latest news?
 

Duns2208

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If another TOC takes over ECML or it goes back into public ownership, surely any train driver roles, assuming the class 800s are rolled out still, would be easier filled at less cost by experienced train drivers? I'm trying to remain positive but realistically would the new operator for the ECML even know we exist? I'm not sure how this works so please advise if I'm wrong but would we not even be the last to know as VTEC staff would be more concerned about their own roles/futures than keeping us updated on the situation.
 

Slet25

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I have sent an email today but haven't had a reply, just would really like to know what position we are in. I have turned down promotion since i have been awaiting a start date after completing my medical last march so still hopeful of hearing some good news soon.
 

FManc

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If another TOC takes over ECML or it goes back into public ownership, surely any train driver roles, assuming the class 800s are rolled out still, would be easier filled at less cost by experienced train drivers? I'm trying to remain positive but realistically would the new operator for the ECML even know we exist? I'm not sure how this works so please advise if I'm wrong but would we not even be the last to know as VTEC staff would be more concerned about their own roles/futures than keeping us updated on the situation.

There's a legal process when a franchise ends called TUPE which stands for Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment). Essentially everyone apart from senior level management just transfers across to the new train company. So the majority of the HR and Talent Team would just carry on as normal. In that respect I don't think there is anything to worry about.
 

Duns2208

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There's a legal process when a franchise ends called TUPE which stands for Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment). Essentially everyone apart from senior level management just transfers across to the new train company. So the majority of the HR and Talent Team would just carry on as normal. In that respect I don't think there is anything to worry about.
Appreciate that, I suppose that's at least reassuring. I guess all we can do is still keep waiting, we were expecting an update by end of April which bearing in mind it's been almost 18 months since first applied isn't long away, cheers for taking the time to reply though.
 

FQTV

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If the class 800s are to be introduced then that is good news for us. I was reading on another thread that if the government take on the ECML then it is quite possible they will not introduce the 800s on the ECML and that they will end up elsewhere. In fairness it seems that nearly every post in that other thread is opinion based anyway so take it with a pinch of salt.

We are just going to have to keep waiting until we get an update. Has anybody contacted virgin following this latest news?

There are two things, I think, to keep very clear:
  1. The trains are coming. No ifs, no buts; they're coming.
  2. They will need drivers.
Whilst I appreciate that it's an unsettling time, it's also an unsettling time for existing employees. And it must be particularly galling for those staff that Virgin Trains East Coast removed last year. They're not going to be getting those jobs back via a pre Virgin time machine.

As it stands, it would seem that there's far more security in future driver positions for the ECML than there would be from waiting lists at the vast majority of private companies. Whilst Virgin Trains East Coast is a private company, it was supposed to be doing the government's bidding and operating the (to all intents and purposes) government's new trains.

There will be lots of politics ahead, and lots of opinion, but whilst the government may have to weather the embarrassment of the public working out that shiny new trains are nothing to do with Virgin, they would almost certainly not be able to weather the storm of cancelling train orders, putting jobs at risk etc., etc.,

In the meantime though, if other train operating companies are recruiting, then why would ECML waitlisters not apply to those other TOCs? It may be worth remembering that further ahead in the future, ECML operators may move employee bases up and down their routes, so moving with them is always something that may have to be faced.
 

FManc

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If it puts anyones mind at rest someone has tweeted the managing director of VTEC today regarding the Azuma and extra services (specifically to Lincoln).

His response was:
"Entry into ECML passenger service is scheduled for Dec 2018, launch of extra Lincoln services remain on target for May 2019".
 

irish_rail

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Once Current ex TOC drivers and Trainees are passed out in summer, Edinburgh will be well over subscribed by around 10 drivers, Newcastle has never seen the amount of spare drivers kicking about!

To the guys waiting you are caught between a rock and a hard place but personally I would be applying for other TOCs whilst waiting otherwise you may miss out on a driving career for quite a while if you don’t

I would think that is irrelevant. To give an example on GWR at Plymouth we have 15 drivers over the top at the moment but this is part of the plan for forthcoming training. It is the same at all other GWR high speed depots. I don't know how big these ECML depots are but i suspect being just 10 drivers over the top unless it is a very small depot, is nothing and more will likely be recruited.
So don't give up!
 

Grannyjoans

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I don't think it is right to see new drivers starting at a company like East Coast when there are many who have been working at Northern on stopping work for many years wanting to progress up to better work.
 

FManc

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I don't think it is right to see new drivers starting at a company like East Coast when there are many who have been working at Northern on stopping work for many years wanting to progress up to better work.

You do realise that they've taken on both qualified and trainee drivers? So anyone who works for Northern had the same opportunity to apply as everyone else.
 

Tyrion

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It
I would think that is irrelevant. To give an example on GWR at Plymouth we have 15 drivers over the top at the moment but this is part of the plan for forthcoming training. It is the same at all other GWR high speed depots. I don't know how big these ECML depots are but i suspect being just 10 drivers over the top unless it is a very small depot, is nothing and more will likely be recruited.
So don't give up!

It is not irrelevant as it is a small depot there is not going to be any work for the drivers concerned who will be going into a holding link which will be full of spare turns! If the company are holdimg out for guys bogging off once the trains arrive they are in for a shock! Edinburgh will also be last depot to get the training also!
 

156484

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I would think that is irrelevant. To give an example on GWR at Plymouth we have 15 drivers over the top at the moment but this is part of the plan for forthcoming training. It is the same at all other GWR high speed depots. I don't know how big these ECML depots are but i suspect being just 10 drivers over the top unless it is a very small depot, is nothing and more will likely be recruited.
So don't give up!
It’s far from irrelevant! There is no work for these extra drivers, and there won’t be until a significant number of the new trains/services arrive. They’re not needed at present, and are effectively being paid for nothing. Hence why recruitment at certain depots is being put on hold temporarily.
 

irish_rail

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It’s far from irrelevant! There is no work for these extra drivers, and there won’t be until a significant number of the new trains/services arrive. They’re not needed at present, and are effectively being paid for nothing. Hence why recruitment at certain depots is being put on hold temporarily.
Right I get that but I am telling you what is happening on comparable TOCS. Almost all of GWR turns are now training or spare turns despite the fact no one at Plymouth has started IET training yet. It is the strategy of the dft to drastically overpopulate depots so that when training begins there is no shortfall. Quite what happens at the end of training to all the extra drivers is anyone's guess but I see no reason why east coast will be treated any differently to GWR in terms of driver depot strategy. Best get used to sitting about doing jack all boys!
 

Lincdsg

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I received a response from virgin today saying that they are not far off being able to give us an update of how they'll be moving forward in relation to us and that they expect to be able to confirm the situation in the coming week
 

Ffcsteve14

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I received a response from virgin today saying that they are not far off being able to give us an update of how they'll be moving forward in relation to us and that they expect to be able to confirm the situation in the coming week

Sounds like bad news in regards to any start dates, but I believe we all kinda new that anyway. At least we will know weather there will b hope for the future (all put on hold indefinitely) or that’s it!!
 

Lincdsg

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I think i assume that it is going to be bad news for us all unfortunately but at this point i just want to know so that i can stop thinking about it all the time
 

FManc

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The only slight positive thing I can think of is the fact that if it was bad news, wouldn't we have been told by now?
There's been rumours we'd find out this/next week for just over a week now (most likely to tie in with this week's news) so obviously they must have some idea of what's going on. If at this stage we were going to be let go I'm sure we would have heard by now.
 
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