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Trainee Train Drivers - Waterloo (14.01.20)

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Cassy j

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Has anyone who applied for this position had any updates since the lockdown? As far as I know, things have been put on hold. Having come so far already and one more hurdle to overcome (MMI), I’m just hoping that they will still be continuing with the position once this situation has eased.
They have a good team in Southampton and have always been happy to answer and questions/emails so give them a call if it will help you mentally as the wait can be difficult.
 
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Cassy j

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Guys I have read a lot about management issues and trying to force drivers to stay by making sure they have an unclean licence so they cant get a swap anywhere else. Swr has a high staff turnover does anyone have any information on the working life ?
 

TTDARL

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At the end of the day it’s the driver that has the incident. It’s the driver that is responsible for their driving standards thus preventing incidents. As drivers, we are all given the skills, training & advice not to have incidents. The vast majority of drivers keep clean licences. The management have a duty to investigate so it is the driver that has the incident(s) that may prevent them moving, not the management. Management cannot cut corners in contravention of TOC policy and RSSB policy. You will hear this coming from most TOCS. Back in the day it is alleged that a driver could get away with certain incidents due to lack of technology / safety systems back then or because of less corporate management. Times change.
 
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TTDARL

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Unfortunately some drivers think they are untouchable and should have the best of everything and will moan moan moan. Some drivers that have incidents are quick to blame others and say its someone else’s fault, not theirs. Human nature I guess. Management are management, they have a job to do and that involves dealing with those that have incidents at whichever TOC you are at.
 

Cassy j

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Unfortunately some drivers think they are untouchable and should have the best of everything and will moan moan moan. Some drivers that have incidents are quick to blame others and say its someone else’s fault, not theirs. Human nature I guess. Management are management, they have a job to do and that involves dealing with those that have incidents at whichever TOC you are at.
I guess that is a better way of looking at it and taking ownership of your actions.
 

Cassy j

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Does anyone know the start and finish times at waterloo? What are the terms and conditions and time given off as breaks etc
 

43066

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The vast majority of drivers keep clean licences.

Definitely not my experience. In fact, I’d say the opposite.

The vast majority of my colleagues, with a few years’ experience, have at least something on their records.
 

43066

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Guys I have read a lot about management issues and trying to force drivers to stay by making sure they have an unclean licence so they cant get a swap anywhere else. Swr has a high staff turnover does anyone have any information on the working life ?

SWR has some very intensive metro work at the inner depots, which naturally leads to more risk of operational incidents.
 

Cassy j

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SWR has some very intensive metro work at the inner depots, which naturally leads to more risk of operational incidents.
Your comments seem to reflect what is being said in forums. What about break times and shifts?
 

Twotwo

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Your comments seem to reflect what is being said in forums. What about break times and shifts?


But then on the other side, they have guards so the chances of a operational incidents such as stop short door release is slim as the guard may clock it and not open the doors. Also the chances of doing a spad on platforms as passenger service is slim as hopefully the dispatch (not all stations have platform staff) or the guard would have picked up on it.

Most of the operational incidents on my toc tend to be wrong side door release, stop short and tpws.


I'm not sure what most of the operational incidents at swr are but it's most likely spad or tpws.
 

43066

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But then on the other side, they have guards so the chances of a operational incidents such as stop short door release is slim as the guard may clock it and not open the doors.

That’s a fair point but, once the new ASLEF deal comes in, inner SWR drivers will be fully responsible for doors and dispatch, as I understand it. Therefore effectively the same as DOO drivers.

I’d expect PTI incidents to rise massively.
 

Twotwo

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That’s a fair point but, once the new ASLEF deal comes in, inner SWR drivers will be fully responsible for doors and dispatch, as I understand it. Therefore effectively the same as DOO drivers.

I’d expect PTI incidents to rise massively.

I'm not an expert and please don't think I'm taking anything away from swr drivers as Ive always said the South West is the most intense network but at the moment they are just focusing on driving (which isn't easy in itself) . Most tocs operational incidents is wrong side door release and stop short. So in that sense swr have had it good as they've not had to worry about that. Yet.

Yes, esp as some of their platforms are quite curved. Would be interesting to know how the dispatch procedure would be from non terminal stations coz atm its bat to guard unless they do bat to driver or cd/ra with a key.
 

Cassy j

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What would the high incidents currently contain if they have a guard on board atm?
 

Twotwo

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What would the high incidents currently contain if they have a guard on board atm?

Anything can happen but I meant the chances are a lot less as you have a second pair of eyes. If you've stopped short the guard might realise and not release the door and contact the drivers. So yes anything can happen.

Main incidents probably tpws or passing a signal at danger. I think they've had two issues where the train has 'gapped' but I work with Ohle so I'm not entirely sure what it is but I think in laymen terms it's when the train has stopped in neutral section and can't draw any power. I know it's happened twice in the last few years at swr.
 

43066

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I'm not an expert and please don't think I'm taking anything away from swr drivers as Ive always said the South West is the most intense network but at the moment they are just focusing on driving (which isn't easy in itself) . Most tocs operational incidents is wrong side door release and stop short. So in that sense swr have had it good as they've not had to worry about that. Yet.

You’re quite right the PTI incidents are by far the the most common at DOO TOCs. That said stopping short can still occur with a guard. It’s generally the guards’ fault too, for not checking the train is fully platformed, but the driver will be more severely treated.


Yes, esp as some of their platforms are quite curved. Would be interesting to know how the dispatch procedure would be from non terminal stations coz atm its bat to guard unless they do bat to driver or cd/ra with a key.

Presumably the new stock will be completely reliant on in-cab monitors.

CD/RA is an interesting one, and can also be a can of worms. Incidents can occur where drivers close the doors on CD and take off before getting RA. Also where a guard erroneously gives two on the bell, once interlock is obtained, and the driver takes power before getting RA from the platform dispatcher.
 

godfreycomplex

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Anything can happen but I meant the chances are a lot less as you have a second pair of eyes. If you've stopped short the guard might realise and not release the door and contact the drivers. So yes anything can happen.

Main incidents probably tpws or passing a signal at danger. I think they've had two issues where the train has 'gapped' but I work with Ohle so I'm not entirely sure what it is but I think in laymen terms it's when the train has stopped in neutral section and can't draw any power. I know it's happened twice in the last few years at swr.
Gapped is indeed the same as that. in the case of third rail in that the train stops with no/not enough shoes in contact with the live portion of the conductor rail (there’s physical gaps in the conductor rail rather than neutral sections, at level crossings/points for instance). Many occurrences happen in and around depots (poor weather and/or low speeds often being a contributory factor)
 

43066

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Gapped is indeed the same as that. in the case of third rail in that the train stops with no/not enough shoes in contact with the live portion of the conductor rail (there’s physical gaps in the conductor rail rather than neutral sections, at level crossings/points for instance). Many occurrences happen in and around depots (poor weather and/or low speeds often being a contributory factor)

Becoming gapped isn’t treated as an operational incident, though. It’s an infrastructure issue.
 

godfreycomplex

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Becoming gapped isn’t treated as an operational incident, though. It’s an infrastructure issue.
That is true. I don’t know how it’s dealt with on the driver competence side of things, but it is indeed treated as an infrastructure issue on the infrastructure side
 

theironroad

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I'm not an expert and please don't think I'm taking anything away from swr drivers as Ive always said the South West is the most intense network but at the moment they are just focusing on driving (which isn't easy in itself) . Most tocs operational incidents is wrong side door release and stop short. So in that sense swr have had it good as they've not had to worry about that. Yet.

Yes, esp as some of their platforms are quite curved. Would be interesting to know how the dispatch procedure would be from non terminal stations coz atm its bat to guard unless they do bat to driver or cd/ra with a key.

A driver stopping short is a driver stopping short regardless of whether there is a guard on board.

In theory the guard operating doors should hopefully act as a safeguard if there is a stop short and prevent a door release, but it happens that a stop short happens and guard still releases doors, though reasonably rare.
 

dctraindriver

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Guys I have read a lot about management issues and trying to force drivers to stay by making sure they have an unclean licence so they cant get a swap anywhere else. Swr has a high staff turnover does anyone have any information on the working life ?
Rubbish. That info refers to another TOC. Many drivers have moved on with incidents.
 
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dctraindriver

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I know drivers who’ve had operational incidents within months of driving. I also know drivers who’ve driven for 30 odd years who’ve had no recordable incidents then have 2 or 3 on the bounce.

It’s how the cards are stacked on the day, and how your brain responds to recognising the risk. 99% of the time every driver sees the risk coming, however every now and again......

Much better drivers than myself have had incidents. Believe in your ability, keep on top of your rules, revise out of course incidents and never ever ever think you’re better than others in the grade. I’ve heard a couple of PQs state they cannot fathom how someone made a mistake....... Those words will come back to haunt them IMO.

it’s a good job, but treat it with respect. Passing the assessments and getting your key is just the beginning of it.
 
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theironroad

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I know drivers who’ve had operational incidents within months of driving. I also know drivers who’ve driven for 30 odd years who’ve had no recordable incidents then have 2 or 3 on the bounce.

It’s how the cards are stacked on the day, and how your brain responds to recognising the risk. 99% of the time every driver sees the risk coming, however every now and again......

Much better drivers than myself have had incidents. Believe in your ability, keep on top of your rules, revise out of course incidents and never ever ever think you’re better than others in the grade. I’ve heard a couple of PQs state they cannot fathom how someone made a mistake....... Those words will come back to haunt them IMO.

it’s a good job, but treat it with respect. Passing the assessments and getting your key is just the beginning of it.

Exactly.

Complacency is the enemy in this job at times, don't succumb.

As for trainees and pq who take the 'won't happen to me' line, always an interesting one :)
 

Dieseldriver

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I know drivers who’ve had operational incidents within months of driving. I also know drivers who’ve driven for 30 odd years who’ve had no recordable incidents then have 2 or 3 on the bounce.

It’s how the cards are stacked on the day, and how your brain responds to recognising the risk. 99% of the time every driver sees the risk coming, however every now and again......

Much better drivers than myself have had incidents. Believe in your ability, keep on top of your rules, revise out of course incidents and never ever ever think you’re better than others in the grade. I’ve heard a couple of PQs state they cannot fathom how someone made a mistake....... Those words will come back to haunt them IMO.

it’s a good job, but treat it with respect. Passing the assessments and getting your key is just the beginning of it.
Couldn't have put it any better!
 

Cassy j

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How is the work shift pattern do they give breaks often and what is the earliest start and latest finish at waterloo?
 

MatthewLdn

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Has anyone had any updates regarding these positions or whether recruitment and training has now resumed with SWR? I passed my DMI in February and now awaiting a date for my MMI.
 

DunfordBridge

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No, just trying to wait patiently for a DMI date for other depots but not quite succeeding. I know of nobody else who is progressing.
 
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I can confirm that Training has resumed, however at a slower rate because of COVID-19. SWR take social distancing very seriously and have done a great job. They clearly care about their staff as the conditions at the training centre in Basingstoke are strict, we even have 1 trainer per 6 trainees to ensure social distancing is kept too.

Myself and 11 others started in March and have our Rules final exam next Friday.
We have been learning over Zoom for the past 10 weeks and had 5 days on the sims with 1 - 1.5 hours each per day last week. With an exam every day this week instead of 1 every week as it’s normally done.
Yes it’s taken longer than it should have but SWR have been great in giving us full pay whilst learning from home.

The trainers and support staff are great, they want to get things moving so I would expect you will hear from them in the coming weeks if you are waiting for a start date.

I am only a trainee so I’m not privileged to precise information. Just thought I’d give some info to those who are waiting As I’d be keen to hear back if i were in their shoes.
 

MatthewLdn

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Heya Craig, thanks for the reply. Encouraged to hear that training within the classrooms has recommenced. All the best with your forthcoming exams and hopefully I’ll be joining you in the not too distant future!
 
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