Trains are better than the stress of flying, anyone agree?

[PaxmanValenta]

(I’m not sure if this is the right forum to post this, please move if there is a more appropriate forum on here.)

People might moan about train fares being expensive, about overcrowding etc but flying is far far more stressful.
I’ve had the airport experience many times and certainly do not enjoy it these days. Unlike the railways baggage weight restrictions are very strict with airlines issuing fines for being 1kg over. Railways require that only a reasonable amount of baggage is taken. I think it’s around 35kg max correct me if I’m wrong.

Airport Security is increasingly horrible, long queues and increasing strictness and rude staff. It’s not unusual to queue up for an hour a Stansted Airport security. People are fed up of the no liquids rule, 12 years after it was introduced. At least on the train you can take a flask through, at the airport it gets confiscated. Then of course it’s shoes off, belts with metal buckles off, coats off and in some cases your carefully packed bags emptied. I know there is a reason but there just seems to be a new check or rule every 6 months. Now there are plans to ban laptops, iPads etc from hand luggage and even introduce fines if you carry through a prohibited item like liquids. Staff are also quite rude with it too.

If security has not stressed you out enough and made you need a sit down, you often have to endure walking through a busy shopping mall before reaching any seats.

Airline delays. They can delay you up to 3 hours and not give any compensation. At least railway companies compensate passengers after 2hrs. Ive been delayed 2 hrs 45 mins in an airport because of the fault of the airline and got nothing not even a free cup of tea on the plane as a good will gesture. I really think they don’t care and punctuality is not a right.

So do you prefer trains because flying is exceedingly stressful these days?

 

[47802]

I suppose it depends some people like flying other hate it, I hate flying but if you want to go to America for instance there isn't much choice or get to Europe quickly unless your doing such London Paris where the Eurostar is quite competitive.

When I used to go to stay at friends Villa in Spain for instance I used to take the Train to Bordeaux and then hired a car and drove various different ways to spain, I had some nice trips and lovely drives, but that used to take me a few days rather than a couple of hours, but if it come to a choice between taking the Plane or Train from Manchester to London for instance then I would always take the train without question.

 

[class387]

I definitely agree, and for UK domestic travel, Paris, Brussels as well as some other closer European cities train is always my first choice. To places further away however (that require a whole day on the rails, or a sleeper train), the stress and discomfort from flying is worth it when you consider the cost and time saving.

 

[hexagon789]

I agree, but for travel abroad the journey length is inconvenient in that it's too long from up here!

Certainly rail travel is preferable and for UK domestic journeys I would go by train as much as possible.

 

[muddythefish]

Flying is a pretty miserable experience, the train wins every time where it is practicable.

Britain is a small country and should have a network of high-speed lines covering by the whole country by now. it is an indictment of transport policy failure and governments' refusal to invest in HS rail that the internal airline market still exists in 2018.

 

[TwistedMentat]

All about time spent travelling. It's that 3 to 4 hour cut over where trains or planes start to beat the other.

Oddly enough humans prefer to not travel for longer than that if reasonably avoidable.

And honestly I find a lot of the stress is self inflicted. Once you accept that travel can be bumpy and you've put in what workarounds you can you just need to lean back and relax.

I've got a trip upcoming that will be smack in the French rail strike. But there's only so much I can do to work around it as tickets for the rest of the holiday have been bought. So I've put together some backup plans and if **** happens then **** happens.

As to the security theatre you see in airports today? Sure that's irritating but I won't stress about it. Note the two things that have been shown to work are x-ray machines and metal detectors. Those catch essentially anything truly dangerous.

 

[Dentonian]

Depends on each individual. As a plane spotter of 45 years standing, I'm going to be inclined to enjoy the Airport experience overall more than most. It also depends on individual circumstances; I have never travelled for work - except partly subsidised study trips over 30 years ago - so all my travel beyond the GM boundary comes out of my own pocket. I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to take a flask on a plane(!) and whilst the liquid restrictions are inconvenient, it is for obvious reasons(!) Security can be problematic, especially unloading belongings and shoes and making sure every single item is recovered from the trays, but I have managed to avoid delays of more than 15 minutes or so, so far. I might regret saying that though as I should be flying from MAN T3 on Saturday! I rarely travel on any route with a choice of modes anyway, as obviously there is a massive time penalty in travelling by Train from "the North" to northern Europe. Plus when any comparison have been done (not recently) train to such as Amsterdam has come out at twice the cost of flying, and that's before you consider extra night's accommodation as the first and last days of the trip would be wiped out travelling.
TBH, by far the biggest stress in Flying (and it would also apply in principle to land modes) is finding a decent price for air tickets because they vary so much and fares are geared towards tempting people to fly late out of MAN and early back - again wiping out 2 days holiday or meaning an extra 2 nights accomodation at £50-100+ a night.

As regards delays, yes I have suffered a couple of serious (24+ hour) delays on trips to/from the USA, but I seem to have been lucky within Europe - and the two times I visited the Far East. Overall, my delay experience on Rail in this country is FAR worse albeit over a smaller number of journeys and travel to/from the West Midlands being by far the worst.

 

[Dentonian]

Flying is a pretty miserable experience, the train wins every time where it is practicable.

Britain is a small country and should have a network of high-speed lines covering by the whole country by now. it is an indictment of transport policy failure and governments' refusal to invest in HS rail that the internal airline market still exists in 2018.

You mean failure of the Taxpayer to invest, preferring trivial things like Health and Education.

 

[muddythefish]

You mean failure of the Taxpayer to invest, preferring trivial things like Health and Education.

Taxpayers don't invest. Spending decisions are down to govt.

 

[Dentonian]

Taxpayers don't invest. Spending decisions are down to govt.

Governments invest in what they want, using our taxes. Occasionally, the private sector might contribute and "Economists" claim the Taxpayer will get their money back.....eventually.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes. I'd rather the comfort of a train for a long journey than flying, even where it takes longer.

 

[30907]

Manchester T3 Monday. Ryanair bag drop took 20mins but amazingly there was no queue at security - still a bit of a faff though.
Berlin Schoenefeld. Bussed to terminal, quick. Wait for baggage 35min from flight arrival, poor compared with previous experiences.
Overall about average for stress, but saved half a day (which is why we didn't fly) and a fair bit of money (bonus).
I'd always go by rail, or rail and sea, for choice, though - but in practice I end up flying one way.

 

[muddythefish]

Governments invest in what they want, using our taxes. Occasionally, the private sector might contribute and "Economists" claim the Taxpayer will get their money back.....eventually.

Correct. Governments spend taxpayers' money, not taxpayers as you originally stated.

Tax money should be spent, or invested, especially on infrastructure. .

 

[mrcheek]

Since I have yet to overcome anxieties enough to ever try flying, I would have to say "Yes" to this one

 

[Dentonian]

Yes. I'd rather the comfort of a train for a long journey than flying, even where it takes longer.

I assume you travel first class. I don't think I've ever been on a comfortable train whether a short journey into M'cr with seats blocked by lap tops and people spreading out or a longer journey to Yorkshire or north Lancashire squeezing into tight seats or stumbling over luggage in the aisles and doorways. Can't imagine how people manage on 6-8 hour crawls to Brussels or Amsterdam.

 

[theironroad]

Just to be clear, UK airports do not require you to remove shoes unless there is enough metal in them to trigger the body scanner. TSA rules for US airports do require the majority of people to remove shoes each time, with some people excepted.

 

[Dentonian]

Correct. Governments spend taxpayers' money, not taxpayers as you originally stated.

Tax money should be spent, or invested, especially on infrastructure. .

Matter of opinion. I disagree, as I feel the needs of the vulnerable are more important than the desires of the (comparitively) rich. Do you throw darts at an effigy of Robin Hood by any chance?

 

[Dentonian]

Just to be clear, UK airports do not require you to remove shoes unless there is enough metal in them to trigger the body scanner. TSA rules for US airports do require the majority of people to remove shoes each time, with some people excepted.

What about the EU?

 

[Mag_seven]

I see air travel as complementing rail travel - when I go on a European rail bash I nearly always fly to the country I am going to be bashing in. I occasionally take the Eurostar but that only tends to be if I am bashing in France, Belgium or perhaps Germany.

 

[MidlandsChap]

Seems like I am in the minority here.

Went from the midlands to Scotland last year, me +1 with one suitcase was £240, airport parking £35

Plane took about 60 minutes including taxi time. Layout was 2 seats each side of the aisle and I knew the person next to me. Therefore at no point did I have to sit next to an unknown member of the general public. Door to door, or rather door to car hire desk was about 5 hours (we left plenty of time for delays on the road). Down time was spent having a nice meal in a bar and perusing the shops in the airport. Door to desk would have been about 8.5 hours on the train at about £190 I seem to recall.

The longest queue we faced was still under 10 minutes.

 

[yorksrob]

I assume you travel first class. I don't think I've ever been on a comfortable train whether a short journey into M'cr with seats blocked by lap tops and people spreading out or a longer journey to Yorkshire or north Lancashire squeezing into tight seats or stumbling over luggage in the aisles and doorways. Can't imagine how people manage on 6-8 hour crawls to Brussels or Amsterdam.

Not all the time by any means. On my 12 hour jaunt down to Cornwall, for example, I'll often splash out for first on the EMT HST for the last leg of the journey back because I like it so much, however otherwise I find steerage comfortable enough, so long as it's not too crowded. This can entail various TOCs on the ECML, 159's on the South Western and GW HST's.

Of course, I tend to build in various changes and transfers, giving plenty of opportunities for leg stretching.

 

[theironroad]

What about the EU?

I'm pretty sure the EU guidance is the same as for UK in that shoes do not routinely have to be removed.

 

[muddythefish]

Matter of opinion. I disagree, as I feel the needs of the vulnerable are more important than the desires of the (comparitively) rich. Do you throw darts at an effigy of Robin Hood by any chance?

Properly funded health and social care is very important. Where did I say it wasn't or that it shouldn't have priority ? What have the desires of the (comparitively) rich got to be with it? What point are you trying to make ?

 

[theironroad]

I don't generally find airports that stressful but I very rarely check luggage and am pre-prepared for security. At least on a plane you always know you'll get some sort of seat.

It really depends on the journey and how much time I have and the costs involved whether I'd take one or the other.

 

[urbophile]

It's the relative cost. I travel to Genova in north-west Italy from time to time, and enjoy the train journey via Paris and Turin. From my home in Liverpool it is technically possible to do the trip within one day, but it's less fraught to stay overnight in London or Paris. Even without that cost the cheapest fare I could find this year was over £150 one way. Ryanair fly to Milan for less than £25; add on the train fare to Genova and it is still well under £50. In this case the flights are at sensible times in the middle of the day, and occasionally they involve a late arrival which calls for an overnight stay en route, but even then I would save money.

Internal UK train fares are usually much more expensive than continental ones; I don't know how internal air fares compare. But even if British rail fares were as cheap as Italian, budget airlines undercut every time. It's not exactly good for the environment. I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens to Ryanair etc after Brexit. Maybe PM Rees Mogg will make it impossible for us to leave the country.

 

[AY1975]

I would agree that rail travel is generally much less stressful than flying, for all the reasons mentioned above.

I have never taken a UK domestic flight in my life, apart from between London and Northern Ireland or from Manchester to London to connect with an international flight. When travelling to mainland Europe, I prefer to take the train if I can, as long as it's not too time-critical.

There is a separate thread on train versus plane for travel to mainland Europe at www.railforums.co.uk/threads/western-europe-do-you-train-it-or-fly-it.162932

 

[Jonny]

I only bother with air travel when leaving the UK to go abroad - the aggro for a flight is not worth it when there is a train available. In fact, of the three overseas trips on my current passport, two were into the southern hemisphere and the third was to Mexico (but not in that order).

 

[Robertj21a]

Air travel, or at least the hassle at airports, can certainly be stressful if you let it. However, there's little real alternative if you're travelling abroad (unless it's just, say, France/Belgium/Netherlands) as the time factor becomes excessive. The irony of course is that most air travel across Europe is now extremely cheap whereas train travel can prove expensive.

 

[hooverboy]

(I’m not sure if this is the right forum to post this, please move if there is a more appropriate forum on here.)

People might moan about train fares being expensive, about overcrowding etc but flying is far far more stressful.
I’ve had the airport experience many times and certainly do not enjoy it these days. Unlike the railways baggage weight restrictions are very strict with airlines issuing fines for being 1kg over. Railways require that only a reasonable amount of baggage is taken. I think it’s around 35kg max correct me if I’m wrong.

Airport Security is increasingly horrible, long queues and increasing strictness and rude staff. It’s not unusual to queue up for an hour a Stansted Airport security. People are fed up of the no liquids rule, 12 years after it was introduced. At least on the train you can take a flask through, at the airport it gets confiscated. Then of course it’s shoes off, belts with metal buckles off, coats off and in some cases your carefully packed bags emptied. I know there is a reason but there just seems to be a new check or rule every 6 months. Now there are plans to ban laptops, iPads etc from hand luggage and even introduce fines if you carry through a prohibited item like liquids. Staff are also quite rude with it too.

If security has not stressed you out enough and made you need a sit down, you often have to endure walking through a busy shopping mall before reaching any seats.

Airline delays. They can delay you up to 3 hours and not give any compensation. At least railway companies compensate passengers after 2hrs. Ive been delayed 2 hrs 45 mins in an airport because of the fault of the airline and got nothing not even a free cup of tea on the plane as a good will gesture. I really think they don’t care and punctuality is not a right.

So do you prefer trains because flying is exceedingly stressful these days?

depends on where you travel by train.If you go to spain these days a lot of routes have airport/eurostar style security checks,brought in after the madrid train was bombed.
IMHO it's treating the symptoms not the cause.
The best course of action is to refuse entry to said persons in in the first place/keep tabs on those who do come in for whatever reason.

there may actually be a use case for online "advance fares" being substantially cheaper than on-the-day turn-up-n-go if we ever get to that stage,
As passenger profiling could already be done before travel, you get to join the priority queue and whizz through,unlike the poor sod who just paid £100 at the counter and has to wait an hour in the queue for the x ray/cough "n" grab

by advance fares I mean 24hrs+ in advance, not 3 months.

+1 about the shopping mall thing.really does infuriate me that you have to navigate your way through a labyrinth of bendy maze concourse before you hit departure gates.It's a proper pain in the @rse when you are late/been held up in security /have a short connection.

 

[pemma]

It depends on the journey. When I stayed in Paris I stayed at a hotel within walking distance of Gare Du North so the fact I had to change trains twice to get to Paris and walk between Euston and St Pancras probably wasn't any less convenient than a flight. However, I went to Dubrovnik last year - I wouldn't have liked to get from England to there by train even if Dubrovnik still had trains. A couple of years back I joined a 9 day tour of Canada starting in Toronto and ending in Montreal - I was the only person on the tour who had decided to get a train from Montreal to Toronto at the end of it, most people had booked internal flights to connect with an international flight home from Toronto.