Trains are better than the stress of flying, anyone agree?

[colchesterken]

I agree, I often go on holiday to the very south of France, Ryanair is the only provider, with all the aggro that goes with that
I enjoy flying the take off and landing is my favorite bit. But getting to Luton, 2 hrs before the flight and the baggage rules
takes almost as long as the train
I have never had a cheap fare to Beziers, The train fare is about the same. I love getting an upstairs sear on the TGV and looking out of the window seeing France wizz by. And in the words of the Eurostar people you can take as much luggage as you can carry. and and bring back booze. ( no liquid on the plane, had my sun tan stuff confiscated last time! )

 

[fowler9]

I really don't find air travel stressful although I wouldn't bother using it internally. There aren't many internal destinations from Liverpool anyway. I would rarely use the train to get to the European mainland either, it makes little sense for me personally. Once there though I am quite happy to use the train. Airports do involve more faffing than catching a train but I personally know several people who find changing trains or even catching one in the first place very stressful so they drive everywhere, now driving everywhere I would find stressful. Ha ha.

 

[hooverboy]

Internal UK train fares are usually much more expensive than continental ones; I don't know how internal air fares compare. But even if British rail fares were as cheap as Italian, budget airlines undercut every time. It's not exactly good for the environment. I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens to Ryanair etc after Brexit. Maybe PM Rees Mogg will make it impossible for us to leave the country.

this is supposedly one of the arguments for HS2,by the time you've faffed around in airport lounges/security for london to edinburgh,you are no better off timewise than if you took the train.It just costs 1/2 of the price than the train if you travel on the day,and even less on advance booked a while ago.
I think standard price booking for london-edinburgh booked 48hrs advance(no baggage):
plane: £100 return
train: cheapest(£150 with restrictions)- £250 standard

 

[Silver Cobra]

I've only every travelled by air once in my life so far, which was from Luton to Glasgow back in October 2016. Ignoring 'first time nerves', the overall experience wasn't too stressful, and I would be happy to do it again. However, I doubt I'll choose air over rail most of the time for Anglo-Scottish journeys, because I live too far from the major London airports. Even Luton Airport is far enough away that any time or cost saving from the flight itself is off-set by the costs of travelling to the outbound airport and from the destination airport. It's why I favoured travelling with VTEC to Glasgow last summer rather than flying from Luton again.

 

[hooverboy]

I really don't find air travel stressful although I wouldn't bother using it internally. There aren't many internal destinations from Liverpool anyway. I would rarely use the train to get to the European mainland either, it makes little sense for me personally. Once there though I am quite happy to use the train. Airports do involve more faffing than catching a train but I personally know several people who find changing trains or even catching one in the first place very stressful so they drive everywhere, now driving everywhere I would find stressful. Ha ha.

If I had to choose between london-paris by plane or eurostar,eurostar wins every time, much further afield(anything over 1hr flight time) and the plane makes more sense.

 

[hooverboy]

I've only every travelled by air once in my life so far, which was from Luton to Glasgow back in October 2016. Ignoring 'first time nerves', the overall experience wasn't too stressful, and I would be happy to do it again. However, I doubt I'll choose air over rail most of the time for Anglo-Scottish journeys, because I live too far from the major London airports. Even Luton Airport is far enough away that any time or cost saving from the flight itself is off-set by the costs of travelling to the outbound airport and from the destination airport. It's why I favoured travelling with VTEC to Glasgow last summer rather than flying from Luton again.

I love flying!
you really can't beat an early morning flight at dawn with a bit of cloud cover as you traverse from dingy old luton airport into bright blue cotton-wool land!
window seat every time for this experience,It's so lovely!

 

[CapitalStar378]

I'm going to Edinburgh in July and looked at both train and air options. I usually fly to Scotland if I can go from Gatwick as I live near Clapham Junction, so it's an easy journey to the airport. On this occasion the fares from Gatwick and the train fare with VTEC weren't much different and the flight times were off putting for comparable fares. The cheap fares were from Luton and Stansted which makes the journey by air so much longer. So I'm going by train, which is quicker than travelling to Bedfordshire or Essex then going through all the motions at least an hour before take off.

Of course, a big advantage for train travel is arriving in the centre of the place you're going to rather than miles outside.

 

[fowler9]

I love flying!
you really can't beat an early morning flight at dawn with a bit of cloud cover as you traverse from dingy old luton airport into bright blue cotton-wool land!
window seat every time for this experience,It's so lovely!

Yeah ditto. I find it almost spiritual. Have seen some amazing views, circled twice over Rome at a few thousand feet and saw all the sites, took off over Prague at night again seeing the stes lit up, flying over the Alps in a thunderstorm looking at the lightening, flying up the Andes from Patagonia towards Santiago, flying over the Coromandel in New Zealand on the same flight.

 

[Bald Rick]

Britain is a small country and should have a network of high-speed lines covering by the whole country by now. it is an indictment of transport policy failure and governments' refusal to invest in HS rail that the internal airline market still exists in 2018.

Just like in France, Spain and Japan with their comprehensive network of high speed lines, where there is no domestic air market

 

[hooverboy]

Yeah ditto. I find it almost spiritual. Have seen some amazing views, circled twice over Rome at a few thousand feet and saw all the sites, took off over Prague at night again seeing the stes lit up, flying over the Alps in a thunderstorm looking at the lightening, flying up the Andes from Patagonia towards Santiago, flying over the Coromandel in New Zealand on the same flight.

landing at oslo in winter in snow is very picturesque,the houses all have different coloured roof tiles and it looks like someone's made a model out of lego!

...not detracting at all from railway scenery...ribblehead ,highlands and shap fell are awesome.

 

[JamesT]

I'd say more often than not I'd do Oxford to Kirkcaldy by flying Birmingham to Edinburgh. Mostly it comes down to speed, pricing is fairly even between the two. But being able to do a normal day's work and still make it North that day is fairly handy. I don't find flying excessively stressful, making connections on the train gives me more grief.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Although I plan to use an ALR this summer, I did a quick look-up for if I wanted to repeat what I did last summer. Checking Easyjet's website, for Monday 30th July, the only flights available from Luton/Stansted/Gatwick to Glasgow are all either before 0900 or after 1700. The pre-0900 flights I could not make and the 1700 and beyond flights mean a large part of the outbound day is wasted. As such, the train would win again if even just for this reason (I can't compare the price currently due to it being more than 12 weeks away from 30th July).

 

[hooverboy]

I'd say more often than not I'd do Oxford to Kirkcaldy by flying Birmingham to Edinburgh. Mostly it comes down to speed, pricing is fairly even between the two. But being able to do a normal day's work and still make it North that day is fairly handy. I don't find flying excessively stressful, making connections on the train gives me more grief.

on a normal day I'd say yes,but you don't get a normal day's work done if your plane has been held up by 3 hours by french air traffic control going on strike and holding everything up coming that way.
4am start(6.00 am flight..at customer for 9.30am or something respectable) soon turns into 4am start( 10.00 flight, land at 11..30 mins for bags/security.....see customer after lunch)

 

[IainG81]

Depends were I'm going and how often after traveling up and down the east coast main line. Sometimes it is nice to fly just to get the whole thing out of the way in and hour. It's not stressful at all for me. Obviously flying is only relevant for long journeys.

 

[3141]

Some people are frightened by the thought of flying, and some don't like it for other reasons: my wife suffers from claustrophobia, and dislikes being hemmed in by others, which always occurs once the plane has taxied to the terminal and almost everyone stands up. She can find the Underground stressful too, and fowler9 has pointed that there are some who find any travel by train stressful.

But for most people, there is no built-in reason for finding travel by one means or another a difficult experience. I now travel by air a couple of times a year, mostly for leisure, and I rarely find the sort of difficulties described by the OP. There's no reason why a 20kg. luggage allowance should be a problem, and if it is there are ways round it to avoid being charged a large amount for excess baggage. Once you know what happens at airport security you can largely prepare for it. My toilet bag contains metal nail scissors so I pack that in the case that will be checked in and go in the baggage hold. If I was travelling with a smaller case which I wanted to take into the cabin I'd leave the nail scissors at home. Most people don't need to carry more than 100ml of liquid through security and they can buy a bottle of water airside if they wish.

It shouldn't be difficult to tell yourself that going by air involves certain procedures, they will take time, so accept that that's how it is and get on with it. As for the choice between air or train, as many have said it depends mainly on distance and the amount of time you have available. I have once travelled by air from Edinburgh to London, when we were staying 15 miles from Edinburgh Airport and needed to be in London by 12.30. It could have been done by train but would have required an extremely early start.

The OP didn't mention passport control. I think that's where I've experienced the biggest delays. One was at Heathrow, but the worst was at St. Pancras after a journey from Lille.

 

[Robertj21a]

A key problem for me is that I often need to plan a long way ahead. The airline will usually get my business as I can book up to 12 months ahead - the trains are hopeless for long term planning.

 

[Dentonian]

Properly funded health and social care is very important. Where did I say it wasn't or that it shouldn't have priority ? What have the desires of the (comparitively) rich got to be with it? What point are you trying to make ?

You said taxpayers money should be spent on investment/infrastructure. It seems there isn't enough left for essential services, so why can't the private sector pay for Infrastructure that they will profit from, and the majority of taxpayers' don't need - or can't even access?

 

[Dentonian]

It's the relative cost. I travel to Genova in north-west Italy from time to time, and enjoy the train journey via Paris and Turin. From my home in Liverpool it is technically possible to do the trip within one day, but it's less fraught to stay overnight in London or Paris. Even without that cost the cheapest fare I could find this year was over £150 one way. Ryanair fly to Milan for less than £25; add on the train fare to Genova and it is still well under £50. In this case the flights are at sensible times in the middle of the day, and occasionally they involve a late arrival which calls for an overnight stay en route, but even then I would save money.

Internal UK train fares are usually much more expensive than continental ones; I don't know how internal air fares compare. But even if British rail fares were as cheap as Italian, budget airlines undercut every time. It's not exactly good for the environment. I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens to Ryanair etc after Brexit. Maybe PM Rees Mogg will make it impossible for us to leave the country.

As Midlandschap hinted, internal UK airfares are very high per mile, though as with rail I dare say off-peak flights to/from London are far cheaper per mile than any other journey.
All the lo-co Airlines are hedging their bets by setting up subsidisaries either side of the Channel. easyjet now have a large "easyjet europe" fleet registered in Austria and Ryanair have started to transfer a small number of aircraft to the Polish register. As mentioned elsewhere, I suspect EHIC arrangements will have a bearing on the European market overall.

 

[johntea]

I flew to Brussels - an hour from Manchester Airport, but it was a Ryanair so flew to the non central airport, meaning a further 1-2 hour bus ride to get from/to the airport! So I guess even with having to get to London from Yorkshire the Eurostar would be quite competitive. Very good weekend for sampling a few of the local beers!

 

[route:oxford]

I split my domestic journeys three ways. Drive, Fly, Train. Often, the Fly/Train is split for the out and back too.

Timing is important. Leaving work at 17:00 on a Friday night, I've got no chance of getting a train from Oxford to Bridge of Allan same day - whereas if I jump in the car and drive, chances are I'll be there just after 23:00. If I head to the airport, there's a wide choice of flights from multiple airports that will get me into Edinburgh or Glasgow for 9pm or earlier.

I've got no need to be carrying flasks of liquid through security at the airport, My belt has a rather nice carbon fibre buckle, I don't have any intimate piercings, I've never been asked to take my shoes off at a UK airport, never been asked to show ID or passport for a domestic BA flight. I can't even think of a need to carry 35Kg of luggage. I've just done a two week spring holiday in the USA - and only carried 16Kg including several pairs of hiking boots and shoes and plenty of winter clothing.

The only reason that flying would be stressful would be if you choose to find things to stress about.

The key reason why I often fly is cost.

My trip to Scotland this weekend is going to cost me £33 return for the flight and a further £40 for a hire car. But then I did book 350 days in advance.

 

[30907]

A key problem for me is that I often need to plan a long way ahead. The airline will usually get my business as I can book up to 12 months ahead - the trains are hopeless for long term planning.

Bit puzzled by this.
12 months ahead of a long distance journey by rail, I can be pretty sure that
1.the fares available when bookings open will be comparable with this year's.
2. there will be trains (if I'm very unlucky, there might be a RRB somewhere).
3. the times will not be vastly different from now

12 months ahead of a flight (depending on route),
1. I can be sure of the fares because I have to pay upfront but
2. the route might still be withdrawn at short notice (not only by Ryanair)
3. the times might very well change (it has happened with 4 of the 5 flights I have taken in the last year, in one case meaning a complete change of plan)

 

[Bald Rick]

I think standard price booking for london-edinburgh booked 48hrs advance(no baggage):
plane: £100 return
train: cheapest(£150 with restrictions)- £250 standard

You can get the very next flight to London from Edinburgh (0605 tomorrow), and come back Sunday, for £75 return.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's the relative cost. I travel to Genova in north-west Italy from time to time, and enjoy the train journey via Paris and Turin. From my home in Liverpool it is technically possible to do the trip within one day, but it's less fraught to stay overnight in London or Paris. Even without that cost the cheapest fare I could find this year was over £150 one way. Ryanair fly to Milan for less than £25; add on the train fare to Genova and it is still well under £50. In this case the flights are at sensible times in the middle of the day, and occasionally they involve a late arrival which calls for an overnight stay en route, but even then I would save money.

EasyJet now fly to Genoa (Tue, Thur, Sat) from Manchester.
Obviously depends on your dates but I can see £45 return in May, nice mid-day times.

I've only made one domestic flight in the last 10 years, where Gatwick Airport confiscated my umbrella as a "dangerous weapon" on check-in for Manchester.
I had come from Bologna where the Italians, and BA, took no interest in the umbrella at all.
It's the inconsistency in security procedures that is annoying.
Rail has its idiosyncracies and issues, and the degree of hassle on trains is increasing, but its generally more relaxing than air travel.
But its not good that both modes keep shrinking the personal space on board.
For foreign travel, air wins easily, but I make up for that by touring round my destination country by train.

 

[muddythefish]

You said taxpayers money should be spent on investment/infrastructure. It seems there isn't enough left for essential services, so why can't the private sector pay for Infrastructure that they will profit from, and the majority of taxpayers' don't need - or can't even access?

Private sector won't pay for national infrastructure roads, railways, HS2, broadband, Heathrow expansion ete etc, and neither should it. That's the job of government. The money is always available for essential services - it's just that this government chooses not to spend it for ideological reasons (austerity), give it away in tax cuts for the wealthy or use it to keep itself in power (£100m for 10 DUP MPs).

 

[Mikey C]

Flying is a pretty miserable experience, the train wins every time where it is practicable.

Britain is a small country and should have a network of high-speed lines covering by the whole country by now. it is an indictment of transport policy failure and governments' refusal to invest in HS rail that the internal airline market still exists in 2018.

The number of mainland domestic flights taken these days is minimal, other than those to Scotland. The WCML upgrades during the 90s killed the London-Manchester route, while air passenger duty has killed off most of the other domestic English routes, especially to London

 

[frodshamfella]

I use domestic flights of Flybe to Norwich particularly from Manchester. I can get the train from Widnes but its extremely slow and packed and actually not always very cheap, I also use Liverpool Airport quite a lot and its very easy to transfer through, I was off plane through passports and indoors in 45 mins !

 

[frodshamfella]

It's the relative cost. I travel to Genova in north-west Italy from time to time, and enjoy the train journey via Paris and Turin. From my home in Liverpool it is technically possible to do the trip within one day, but it's less fraught to stay overnight in London or Paris. Even without that cost the cheapest fare I could find this year was over £150 one way. Ryanair fly to Milan for less than £25; add on the train fare to Genova and it is still well under £50. In this case the flights are at sensible times in the middle of the day, and occasionally they involve a late arrival which calls for an overnight stay en route, but even then I would save money.

Internal UK train fares are usually much more expensive than continental ones; I don't know how internal air fares compare. But even if British rail fares were as cheap as Italian, budget airlines undercut every time. It's not exactly good for the environment. I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens to Ryanair etc after Brexit. Maybe PM Rees Mogg will make it impossible for us to leave the country.

In case you didn't know there is Blue Air as well as Ryanair offering Liverpool to Milan now, I'm flying out with one back with the other in a couple of weeks, looking forward to the trip.

 

[fowler9]

I flew to Brussels - an hour from Manchester Airport, but it was a Ryanair so flew to the non central airport, meaning a further 1-2 hour bus ride to get from/to the airport! So I guess even with having to get to London from Yorkshire the Eurostar would be quite competitive. Very good weekend for sampling a few of the local beers!

At the end of the day if it was going to be easier, cheaper and quicker (or a combination of the three) for me to get to that part of Europe from Liverpool by train I would do it. It never has been yet. It's like when people say "It can be cheaper to use a legacy airline than a budget one". Well it never has been for me living in Liverpool.

 

[JohnRegular]

My preference is to take the train where possible. I don't really like airports and security, and I find trains generally a more comfortable experience than flying in an aircraft.I fairly regularly travel from Aberdeen to the Solent area, and I'll almost always take the train, because:

• Aberdeen-Southampton flights are infrequent
• Aberdeen-London flights are often either to inconvenient airports (e.g. Luton, wrong side of London) or at awkward times (cheap flights to Gatwick seem ideal, but they land too late for the last Gatwick-So'ton train)
• The train takes me much closer to where I want to go, saving me a bus to Aberdeen airport and a train journey from So'ton or a London airport
• No need to deal with airport security (or hang out in airports, which I don't care for)
• I just prefer travelling by train!

However, the journey does take some 9 hours generally, and that is reaching my upper limit. Normally on a journey up to Aberdeen I'm starting to feel a bit restless by Dundee. Getting a bed on the sleeper train makes the journey much more tolerable!
I think if journey time eclipsed 10 hours I'd have to fly; I had to go from Aberdeen to Amsterdam last summer and I didn't really even consider taking the train, as there are frequent flights and the train would have been expensive and taken much longer.

 

[Master29]

Without doubt domestically. The roads in this country are a joke. Even with rail delays driving has become a nightmare most times of the year. The nations arteries are cogged. Rail wins every time even given it`s deficiencies.