Trains becoming more boring?

[Singing Rails]

It saddens me to think about it, but has anyone noticed a trend for newer trains to be more boring and more similar to each other?
Of course there is the obvious landmark of steam being completely withdrawn, but I find that there is a more gradual change even today, of trains becoming 'standardised' and dull; Trains becoming less distinctive sounding and looking, and more of the same trains. some examples are:

-The move from DC to AC traction
-A focus on Multiple units: no noisy locomotives with personalities and just units which all look the same
-Speed over nice routes (e.g HS1 has many views of just concrete or tunnel)
-Passenger Capacity over Passenger Comfort
-Foreign Vehicles/Designs being imported
-Pretty much all EMUs being replaced by Siemens Desiro, with more for newly electrified lines
-Eurostar to be replaced with Siemens Velaro (already in many countries)
-EWS taken over by DB

Even the announcements are becoming all the same!
The same woman announces on London Midland, Heathrow Connect, Piccadilly line, Southeastern/highspeed, and I believe Greater Anglia as well!

I of course understand the reasoning behind all these things, as standardization makes the railway much easier to run, but I fear in maybe 50-100 years there will be only 3 types of trains (Intercity, Suburban, Metro), as opposed to the great variety the UK has currently (it seems already most other countries only have a small variety of rolling stock). Will this also mean a decline in Rail enthusiasts?

Thoughts?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Well to be honest, the railway is not run for enthusiasts, its as simple as that.

 

[Anon Mouse]

This old chesnut, comes out all the time. There may not be as much interesting stuff as in the past but there is still enough to keep a thirty something enthusuast happy. If you are bored with the UK scene why not look a bit further? Plenty of interesting stuff in Mainland Europe, especially Eastern Europe, Russia, China, India, Oz. The interest is still there but you may need to broaden your horizon's to find it....

 

[150001]

I think the new stock can be more boring for some; personally I love the new stock, especially the LM 172s. Excellent trains which look unique and also have some unique engine sounds.

 

[Class377/5]

Some of us prefer new stuff over the old stock.

However considering the paying public want valve for money then standardisation is what to expect. After all railway is run for them.

 

[The Ham]

Even within franchises there can be differences in stock, yes each type is going to more or less the same, but we are unlikely to only ever end up with three types of trains.

In fact since privatisation we have seen an increase in IC type trains pre privatisation it was basicly IC125's and IC225's now we have them as well as class 390's class 220's, class 221's class 222's and class 395's with IEP's not that far off.

Likewise look at all the different types of trains which have replaced the Mark 1 EMU's in the south east.

 

[Kali]

As time passes there's more history to learn about, too

I suspect this came up 100 years ago when Churchward was busy standardizing the GWR...

 

[Condor7]

I think most replies on here are missing the 'spirit' of what you are saying 'singing rails'

Yes of course the railways are not for enthusiasts, and clearly there are many (like me) that enjoy the current scene, and clearly standardisation will be favoured by the railways for ease and costs.

However from an enthusiasts point of view you are correct, the variety that many of us were brought up on has diminished and is missed (by me at least).

Although some have implied that you should look elsewhere or change your hobby, there is nothing to suggest you are that disillusioned just missing what once was.

I remember when HST's were first introduced railway magazines were full of letters from enthusiasts who hated them and made similar observations as yourself. Now many get very interested in HST workings and actively seek them out.

Pendolinos are in my view a very attractive train, and if there was only one on the network it would be actively sort, but their profusion make them less interesting.

There is still plenty to enjoy, but yes you are correct not as much as there used to be.

 

[yorksrob]

I remember when HST's were first introduced railway magazines were full of letters from enthusiasts who hated them and made similar observations as yourself. Now many get very interested in HST workings and actively seek them out.

Pendolinos are in my view a very attractive train, and if there was only one on the network it would be actively sort, buttheir profusion make them less interesting.

There is still plenty to enjoy, but yes you are correct not as much as there used to be.

Is it that modern trains are less interesting - or is it just that some are less comfortable

 

[Beveridges]

MU's don't give the same impression of power as a locomotive. Lots of small engines or traction motors - one under each carriage - rather than a load of carriages hauled by one large power unit.

 

[Singing Rails]

Just to make my position clearer, I think the railway as it is at the moment is still very interesting, as there is a mix of old and new, I just fear that eventually the old will be all gone and replaced.

 

[TDK]

It's not only the railways that are changing, look at Formula 1 for instance it is called progression and technology, if you find it boring try another hobby

 

[Lewisham2221]

Just to make my position clearer, I think the railway as it is at the moment is still very interesting, as there is a mix of old and new, I just fear that eventually the old will be all gone and replaced.

Yes, the old will eventually be gone. But, by then, what is new now will be old. And so on and so forth.

 

[samxool]

as a commuter, I couldn't care less what a train looks like.
I just want it to be clean, comfortable and run on time.

 

[SS4]

Standardisation of stock is a good thing. Homogeneous stock will have spares readily available and units can be loaned (look at tanks in WWII for examples - especially the Sherman/T34)

Of course it should come second to suitability, I'd hate 323s on the WCML and 390s on the XCity

 

[cj_1985]

i don't really see much different between how things are now/becoming and how they used to be...

you used to have large numbers of certain loco types, or unit types the same as we now have large numbers of certain loco types and large numbers of MUs

we still have:-
large numbers of LHCS trains (on ECML, GEML, Sleepers, Chiltern, ATW, and HSTs if you want to include their mk3s),

large numbers of diesel passenger trains (again HSTs, and timetabled class 67 hauled trains),

Electric locos still in use (albeit in smaller numbers)

Diesel Hauled freight

Large numbers of different types of MUs in use all round the country... just like was the way under BR. (several different types share common features like BR MUs)

Mk1 and Mk2 stock still in regular use (albeit on charters)

class 20, 37, 47, 56 locomotives in use on the mainline

Different Liveries for different operations or regions

locos still being ordered to replace or supplement existing fleets like was done by BR

I could go on and on...
so I don't see how trains are getting boring. unless you just think that way because your fave classes have been reduced or stored or scrapped. Everything is going to evolve in one way or another... TVs, Phones, Computers, Cameras, Cars.. and shock horror... even trains.
There is still a lot of the old regime out there for older enthusiasts to enjoy be it on the mainline or on one of the many great preserved lines around the country.

 

[sarahj]

I think there has always been the perception that 'todays' railways are boring, and that it was better years ago. But its so. Someone had posted a old TV prog of NSE and all the shots were of the same class EMU. Back then spotters whould have groaned, but now everyone is, cool, look at the old slam doors.
Years ago I remember at Newcastle people used to moan as it was all HST,s, 56's on MGR's, 40's on trans pennine and pacers on the locals. Now people would pay good money to travel behind a 40, or even a 56.

And things change, when i joined southern 5 plus years ago I was trained and worked 377's only, now I work, 442's and 313's as well, and you see some differing locos on the stone trains to purley and three bridges, and who knows what will run the ash trains from Newhaven when that gets running (track down, soon to connected up, perhaps this weekend!!!).

Its like a book out called Southern electrics. Its mentioned that there are few pics of the trains etc on the Arun valley line, as they were all seen as a bit boring. Nowdays people want to see what was boring then.

Everything out there is NOT the same, and remember, there are people down south who have no idea what a pacer is, and would get quite excited if one turned up. In fact the first time one turned up at Newcastle there was quite a crowd, cause all we were used to was boring old 101's (or whatever DMU turned up, never been much of an expert on those)

Anyway, mini rant over.

 

[RobShipway]

I think it is down to how you are interested in trains as to whether they are more boring now.

I have spent a good part of today on the Watercress Line (Mid Hants Railway) and yes there was lots of Steam hauled trains as part of their Spring Gala they have this weekend including Steam Engines like 'Lord Nelson' and other visiting locos.

However, I also have am interest in Diesel and Electric hauled trains as that was for the most part what I grew up with being a child through the 1970/80's.

I travel to work during the week by car, but when I can I love to travel at weekends by train and I am planning in either a few weeks or a few months, to travel down to Wareham by train so that I can then travel on to Swanage. But all part of this day, both travelling on electric 458/450/455 from Martins Heron to Clapham Junction and then travelling class 444 to Wareham, to get a Steam/diesel down to Swanage is going to be a fun day.

 

[tbtc]

You get older. You realise that the variety of classes there used to be were basically slightly different flavours of the same thing. Yeah, there's little difference between a 376 and a 377 but then there wasn't much difference between a 45 and a 46 once upon a time. A 171 is just a slightly different 170 but then how different were the 81/ 82/ 83/ 84/ 85s? Or the 24/ 25/ 26/ 27/ 33s?

I grew up in the era of mass classes of standard coaches - Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3s. You learnt the differences between classes and within classes (like what made a 37/4 different from other 37s).

If anything, since privatisation we've moved away from BR's large classes of standard DMUs into small fleets of 172/ 175/ 180/ 185/ 380/ 460 due to the lack of centrally planned stock procurement.

T'was ever thus.

 

[yorksrob]

Standardisation of stock is a good thing. Homogeneous stock will have spares readily available and units can be loaned (look at tanks in WWII for examples - especially the Sherman/T34)

Of course it should come second to suitability, I'd hate 323s on the WCML and 390s on the XCity

Absolutely. A lesson well learnt by the. Southern Railway/Region with its units.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Standardisation of stock is a good thing. Homogeneous stock will have spares readily available...

Agreed; it keeps the total operating costs down (or profits up, depending on your point of view). Commonality of parts means a simpler, cheaper demand chain for replacement parts; simpler, cheaper training for technical/functional skills; greater likelihood of turning around repairs/servicing to maintain high in-service availability.

That being said, I agree with the OP. The soul has gone from our railways - my 1980s recollections are of belching Sulzers and EEs, of DMUs which could bounce the unwary traveller out of their seat, of coach compartments which would toast or freeze their occupant - and black chins & hands due to grime which only seemed to exist around Mark 1 window-frames. How I miss it...

 

[scarby]

Great thread with a lot of cracking posts.

I agree with aspects of all of them.

As mentioned upthread, who wouldn't give anything, for example, for my local station, Scarborough, as it was in the 1970s/1980s, with an 08 or 03 station pilot all year round, loco-hauled trains in summer, loco-hauled freight and a rich variety of DMU classes?

Now you could sit there for 8 months and all you would see would be 185s and whatever class it is Northern operates on the Hull services.

At the same time, as also mentioned, you can go and seek out nostalgic trains - go and ride on a bubble car in Princes Risborough or Cardiff or take a sleeper to Penzance. Or just ride on an HST.

There are also a vast number of charter trains and preserved lines with no equal anywhere in Europe.

If you live near a preserved line such as the NYMR you can ride old stock to your heart's content every day from about March to October, including over National Rail metals.

 

[Anon Mouse]

I can sympathise with those who have lost interest, I myself have lost interest a couple of times but always come back. When I come back I am then saddended by what I have missed, VT using a Deltic, 33's on the Gospel Oak (or was it NLL?) etc etc. My interest was more or less ressurected with the help of foreign stuff which I feel still has a hell of a lot of interest in it!

 

[yorksrob]

I think there has always been the perception that 'todays' railways are boring, and that it was better years ago. But its so. Someone had posted a old TV prog of NSE and all the shots were of the same class EMU. Back then spotters whould have groaned, but now everyone is, .

Er, some of us are old enough to have loved the slam door trains for the twenty five years or so we've had the priveledge of using them in day to day service.

 

[Temple Meads]

I'm sure enthusiasts were saying exactly the same thing at the end of steam, but some enthusiasts managed to adjust to diesels (although yes, some packed it in), and we're at a similar crossroads now, just with units being the new guard, and I expect many enthusiasts will/have given up.

I have nothing against progress (and yes, it is progress, for the passengers and the TOC's), and will embrace IEP and any other new trains that come our way even if I do love the HST's and 57's, I guess I'm a railway enthusiast, and not just a train enthusiast, because although trains will undoubtedly get less interesting for the basher, there are always other aspects of railways I can enjoy.

 

[Oswyntail]

I am essentially an old-fashioned train spotter, having been ticking off the numbers in my various ABCs for over half a century. There is nothing today to match the sheer variety of a summer Saturday on the Blackpool line in the sixties. And the seventies were pretty rich too, with the various small loco classes being locally concentrated, but still apt to be found just about anywhere if you were lucky (rail blue tried to put a damper on things, though). Today the fleets are much more standardised and are either "go anywhere" or "never leave the area".
But I am not a disillusioned old grump, far from it. Why? Because, for instance, I "copped" 66601 at Willesden last Wednesday. Another new experience for me, just like living each moment of every day. I found it just as interesting as my 5 year old self did when I saw my first Jub ("Seahorse", as I recall). Railways are infinitely fascinating, in an infinite number of ways, and anyone who complains of boredom should simply learn to open their eyes.

 

[tbtc]

The soul has gone from our railways - my 1980s recollections are of belching Sulzers and EEs, of DMUs which could bounce the unwary traveller out of their seat

We still have plenty of "bouncing" DMUs - just read the Pacer threads on here.

 

[D365]

OP, I myself do enjoy even the latest AC motors, they have their 'characteristics'. You act a bit Siemens-centric; which EMU/DMU series is most common in Britain?

Standardisation of stock is a good thing. Homogeneous stock will have spares readily available...

Agreed; it keeps the total operating costs down (or profits up, depending on your point of view). Commonality of parts means a simpler, cheaper demand chain for replacement parts; simpler, cheaper training for technical/functional skills; greater likelihood of turning around repairs/servicing to maintain high in-service availability.

And if all the privatised operators had ordered from Washwood Heath..? I agree in principle but one can never be reliant on just one supplier.

That being said, I agree with the OP. The soul has gone from our railways - my 1980s recollections are of belching Sulzers and EEs, of DMUs which could bounce the unwary traveller out of their seat, of coach compartments which would toast or freeze their occupant - and black chins & hands due to grime which only seemed to exist around Mark 1 window-frames. How I miss it

Does the average folk enjoy such an environment? coughPACERcouch...

 

[Kali]

Just to make my position clearer, I think the railway as it is at the moment is still very interesting, as there is a mix of old and new, I just fear that eventually the old will be all gone and replaced.

When I was a wee boy the railway was basically steam-era run with diesels - semaphores, manual crossings, odd freight work and old stock. It was interesting as someone who's interested in complicated things, but not the best thing to travel on! really given the way other systems have gone in the meantime the railways should have centralised their control systems & standardized stock decades ago. That would be interesting too, in it's own way - just not as diverse.

 

[upnorth71]

I guess I'm a railway enthusiast, and not just a train enthusiast, because although trains will undoubtedly get less interesting for the basher, there are always other aspects of railways I can enjoy.

Well said, Temple Meads. I also tend to look at the total railway scene- infrastructure such as station architecture and layouts, trackwork, signaling and the like. Also railway operations- such as timetable changes, service patterns, and railway response to service disruptions.

As far as rolling stock, as someone else has mentioned, it's interesting to seek out the minor variations within a model type, such as different traction packages, with their different sounds. It does help though, where I live (in Japan), that the sheer number of independent railway operators, most with custom-built designs, along with the existence of seven different rolling stock builders, keeps variety alive, despite the aggressive rolling stock replacement practices conducted here.

*It's also a function of (our) age- the types we grew up with are gone or are being replaced- so it's natural to look with disdain at the newcomers to the scene. Curiously, the slightly older stock I disdained only a few years ago now seem attractive after they too are threatened with replacement.