Trains leaving early

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by bradders1983, 27 Apr 2015.

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  1. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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    Was on the 1411 Blackpool North to York service yesterday and the train got into Burnley Manc Road at about 1510, two minutes before it was due to depart at 1512 according to the timetable.
    However it didnt hang around long, the doors closed and we were setting off as the clock on the platform ticked over to 1510 and 50 seconds.

    Should trains be leaving platforms early like this? OK it was only 70 seconds but the point remains.
     
  2. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    Let me paraphrase the pages and pages of arguments that will now follow.

    No, they shouldn't be, traincrew are human though and make mistakes. Someone will no doubt point out if you miss a train and are only reaching the station within a minute of departure then maybe the passenger is cutting it too fine. The someone will come along and claim its the biggest travesty in the world and any guard or dispatcher who allows a train to run early, no matter by how much, should be sacked, set to the gulag then eaten by lions. Then it will be pointed out that the station clock may not match the watch used by the guard hence the discrepancy. Then several more pages of the same argument going in circles between normal users, traincrew and the people on here who hate all rail staff.

    tl:dr: Shouldn't happen, sometimes does, rarely more than a minute or so.
     
  3. thelongestroad

    thelongestroad Member

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    The "system" shows it leaving right time, so perhaps the station clock was wrong and the guard's watch correct?

    I have seen quite a few inaccurate stations clocks out and about.
     
  4. scott118

    scott118 Member

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    never happened on my 'watch'...:lol:

    Railway issued watches are usually 'radio controlled' to keep a uniform time, that's if they update when they should do. When both platform clocks are displaying a different time to your wrist watch, when would you depart?
     
    Last edited: 27 Apr 2015
  5. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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    I went on National Rail Enquiries after it departed and the train was still up as I was looking at it when I got to Accringtron. When I hit refresh, it changed from "1512" to "1511 Departed On Time".

    As an aside, the train was going very very slow between Burnley and the "Todmorden Curve" area. Is that the usual line speed to crawl at a snails pace? And if so, why?
     
    Last edited: 27 Apr 2015
  6. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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  7. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

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    The 20:38 at South Parkway (An Oxford Road to Lime Street service) was disappearing in to the distance at 20:36 on 25/04 as I crossed the footbridge to catch it. It shouldn't happen but people make mistakes. I've made plenty in my time.
     
  8. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Not just down to the train crew leaving early, I have seen many instances of our schedule cards having different times to the departure screens so my diagram tells me I'm booked to leave at 0921 but the platform screens show me as the 0923. This Is generally down to a train planning error or an out of date schedule card being issued (ie it has been amended at short notice but not passed on to the signing on point in time). If you don't notice the station departure boards which on DOO is highly likely and go by the schedule card you are most probably going to leave ahead of time.
     
  9. sarahj

    sarahj Established Member

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    Sometimes the staff diagram might not match up to the PIS. Yesterday, my 1H02 from Victoria to Portsmouth had in my diagram to leave Haywards Heath at 09.11, but the PIS said 09.13. There are platform staff at HHE, and I could see the CIS, and so 09.13 is the time we left, but had there been none, and the CIS been hard to see, then I would have left at 09.11, the time on my diagram.
    and a few weeks earlier, doing another train. My diagram said dept from a station at 06.15, I could see the CIS saying 06.17. i could tell my driver was getting worried as he got the onboard system to say, 'stand clear of the doors, the train is about to leave'. Wheels were rolling at 06.16.50. Told the driver why, and as yet, no 'please explain'.

    edit, or as A driver said!
     
  10. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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    Surely the guard would have seen the display on the platform though, or do they solely rely on their own timekeeping device?
     
  11. plastictaffy

    plastictaffy Established Member

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    Unfortunately, Maps has stopped.
    You can't always see the clock at the station. If I can't see the clock, I'll go when my watch says it's time to go. I'll always hit "Door Close" 20 seconds before it's actually time to leave because on a Desiro, it takes about that for the whole sequence to complete. If you turned up at say 1442 and 50 seconds, I'm sorry, you've probably missed it. By the time I actually move, it will be a second or two after booked time.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    We get on our diagrams a "PTT" and a "WTT". Sometimes there's a difference of a minute or two between the times, allowing for a freight or the like to be booked in front of us.
     
    Last edited: 27 Apr 2015
  12. miami84

    miami84 Member

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    I think there's a certain level of pragmatism going on here. How many timepieces should the guard consult before departure? :)
     
  13. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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    Dunno :D

    At the end of the day it didnt really affect me, I just guess if I was going to get on a train at Burnley and got to the station a minute before departure and saw it sailing into the sunset with no other train for an hour, I would be miffed. And not just because I lived in Burnley ;)
     
  14. miami84

    miami84 Member

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    Miffed? I would be absolutely beelin'! :)
     
  15. SPADTrap

    SPADTrap Established Member

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    Great post made me chuckle.
     
  16. Fincra5

    Fincra5 Established Member

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    At the end of the day traincrew follow the diagram they are given. If the CIS is different thats at fault of planning.

    Station clocks do often seem to be wrong, compared to the Radio watch.
     
  17. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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  18. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    From your RTT link it was running more than fast enough to keep time. The route is heavily speed restricted basically because of the geology.
     
  19. tocguard

    tocguard Member

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    Does seem to be discrepancies at northern managed stations. WORKSOP is another example where it has been incorrect for as long as i can remember. There it is out by 20 - 30 seconds, not much but that's not the point when i imagine they know full well about it.
     
  20. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    Trains should be be departing early. It is up to the guard to ensure he gives right away to the driver at the correct time. Its a simple as that. This is one of those vital things the guard should be getting right without exception.
     
  21. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    How do you know the guard got it wrong?
     
  22. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Most pointless post ever. What a load of absolute rubbish! Shows you have neither read the thread at all and also that you don't have the faintest clue what you are talking about or the reasons trains can sometimes end up leaving early.

    Quite simply you are trolling. Perhaps consider deleting such a pointless and silly post so that people can carry on with a sensible, more thought out, conversation...
     
  23. TimG

    TimG Member

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    Okay. 1b00 left a 1 minute 15 seconds early today. There were two staff on the platform and a gazillion clocks and they still can't get it right. i don't see how this can be anything other than deliberate.
     
  24. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    1b00 where in the country? Is it DOO or guard worked? Do platform staff dispatch from the station?

    May just be a mistake, may be a scheduling error as has already been discussed. Not sure why you think a train crew would "deliberately" leave a station early, what possible gain to them is there in doing so?!
     
  25. TimG

    TimG Member

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    Brighton. They do it just to wind me up. :)
     
  26. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    I believe most services have staff dispatch them at brighton in which case most likely it's a scheduling error and the platform and train staff had a different time on their schedule cards and didn't notice the screens gave a different time.
     
  27. TimG

    TimG Member

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    Is this really plausible? There have been no changes to the timetable since January.
     
  28. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Either that or a genuine mistake, however for a train to leave brighton early the signaller would need to clear it early which is fairly unlikely with conflicting movements. There is a good chance that if the signal was cleared early the staff automatically dispatched the train without double checking their watch which is nothing more than a simple error.

    But I don't understand why people accuse staff of dispatching trains early deliberately, why on earth would they?!
     
  29. TimG

    TimG Member

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    Because it seems like no other explanation is plausible, as on the face of it it seems like such a simple thing to get right.
     
  30. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    I need to post a photo of Polmont station in Scotland.

    It is possible for a passenger to see 3 clocks all at different times. 2 digital clocks and the one under the departures. That is the one I tend to trust.
     
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