Trains leaving early

[A-driver]

Because it seems like no other explanation is plausible, as on the face of it it seems like such a simple thing to get right.

It is simple to get right. But when different clocks give slightly different times and train planning are constantly ammending running times etc it can lead to mistakes.

Plus staff are human and can can make a mistake-especially when dispatching hundreds of trains a day with great pressure not to let them out late.

 

[WCMLaddict]

In our Northern land it is very often (especially around rush hours) that the advertised and actual timetabled times differ. Usually by 1-2 minutes either way.
We are supposed to be running the trains accordingly to times on the docket NOT the ones on the screens.
We are also supposed to use our watches issued to us by the company. The ones that radio adjust themselves every day.
So I am sorry to break it some of you guys but I'm not supposed to look at what the screen or station clock says when I have different times in front of me.

 

[hounddog]

How do you know the guard got it wrong?

How do you know he didn't?

 

[Greenback]

Let me paraphrase the pages and pages of arguments that will now follow.

No, they shouldn't be, traincrew are human though and make mistakes. Someone will no doubt point out if you miss a train and are only reaching the station within a minute of departure then maybe the passenger is cutting it too fine. The someone will come along and claim its the biggest travesty in the world and any guard or dispatcher who allows a train to run early, no matter by how much, should be sacked, set to the gulag then eaten by lions. Then it will be pointed out that the station clock may not match the watch used by the guard hence the discrepancy. Then several more pages of the same argument going in circles between normal users, traincrew and the people on here who hate all rail staff.

tl:dr: Shouldn't happen, sometimes does, rarely more than a minute or so.

It looks like you were spot on with your prediction!

 

[The Planner]

Not sure how the schedules have anything to do with this, if we alter something it gets uploaded overnight and should reflect on the CIS.

 

[Fincra5]

Okay. 1b00 left a 1 minute 15 seconds early today. There were two staff on the platform and a gazillion clocks and they still can't get it right. i don't see how this can be anything other than deliberate.

Well not all the clocks at Brighton match... also I've not seen a train to leave Brighton early... maybe 30secs- as thats when doors are going to close.

A passenger once had a go at me for leaving a minute early... it was 20 secs, doors closing at 30 secs before departure.

So he missed his train before because it too closed doors at 30 seconds.

 

[Llanigraham]

Trains should be be departing early. It is up to the guard to ensure he gives right away to the driver at the correct time. Its a simple as that. This is one of those vital things the guard should be getting right without exception.

What happens when there isn't a Guard?

 

[TimG]

Well not all the clocks at Brighton match... also I've not seen a train to leave Brighton early... maybe 30secs- as thats when doors are going to close.

A passenger once had a go at me for leaving a minute early... it was 20 secs, doors closing at 30 secs before departure.

So he missed his train before because it too closed doors at 30 seconds.

There are signs that indicate this and have been for many years. Personally I think this is stupid, but at least it is clear. I pointed out to the guys on the platform that there was no train yet it was not yet 30 seconds prior to departure.. they said nothing and just walked off. LOL!

 

[A-driver]

Not sure how the schedules have anything to do with this, if we alter something it gets uploaded overnight and should reflect on the CIS.

The issue is when the train crew are issued out of date diagrams so they have different timings to the CIS. It certainly happens, quite commonly on a Sunday especially. Often it's because so many diagrams have been issued and the wrong one has been printed to the SOP.

 

[The Planner]

Thats a TOC issue then.

 

[A-driver]

Thats a TOC issue then.

Well yes, I didn't claim it wasn't a TOC issue did I?

 

[reb0118]

Trains should be be departing early....

Not according to my rule book.

Most pointless post ever. What a load of absolute rubbish! Shows you have neither read the thread at all and also that you don't have the faintest clue what you are talking about or the reasons trains can sometimes end up leaving early...

Mistakes happen - but I feel from gray (or should that be grey) 1404's postings that he does not live up to his username but seems to be very much a black & white person.

Do not ascribe to malice what can easily be ascribed to error.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In our Northern land it is very often (especially around rush hours) that the advertised and actual timetabled times differ. Usually by 1-2 minutes either way.

You have WTT departure times *before* PTT ones? Really? That needs to be fixed (though in the meantime you indeed should do what you're told).

I have heard of WTT being *after* PTT, which can make sense depending on the situation.

So I am sorry to break it some of you guys but I'm not supposed to look at what the screen or station clock says when I have different times in front of me.

OTOH guards might do well to quickly look at the PIS if they can see it, because they can check it is correctly displaying their train and if they find it isn't make some announcements. I'm sure most do.

 

[TimG]

It is simple to get right. But when different clocks give slightly different times and train planning are constantly ammending running times etc it can lead to mistakes.

Plus staff are human and can can make a mistake-especially when dispatching hundreds of trains a day with great pressure not to let them out late.

Looking at real time trains the train prior (0544 from Brighton) is shown has departing 45 second early. Not sure when this is triggered exactly and how accurate it is, but it would seem to point to some common element. This would point away from driver being the issue.

 

[455driver]

Okay. 1b00 left a 1 minute 15 seconds early today. There were two staff on the platform and a gazillion clocks and they still can't get it right. i don't see how this can be anything other than deliberate.

It also left Burgess Hill 1 minute before it arrived there, arrive 0601, departed 0600!

 

[TDK]

Not sure how the schedules have anything to do with this, if we alter something it gets uploaded overnight and should reflect on the CIS.

The CIS is unreliable

 

[martynbristow]

Merseyrail have a nasty habbit of doing it and as much as you *could* say its a genuine mistake its not. It always seems to happen when the crews swap over :/ but a few other times too such as the last train!

 

[W230]

Reasons I've left stations "early":

1) My diagram differed to the station display. I followed the diagram as it was an amended one, presumably (hopefully) correct.
2) My company issue watch failed. I drive DOO and can't see CIS displays at most stations. I made an educated guess until I could replace it.
3) I've been late at the previous 35 stations and accidentally expected I was a bit behind schedule still when I wasn't.
4) Platform staff watches have gone wibble.
5) I accidentally left early. Shock horror.
6) I did it to wind up TimG.

I have a company radio controlled watch (that recently replaced the other one that broke) and it is currently out of sync with the platform clocks. I can't seem to get it to line up with them.

 

[causton]

I have a company radio controlled watch (that recently replaced the other one that broke) and it is currently out of sync with the platform clocks. I can't seem to get it to line up with them.

Don't worry, in the booking office my phone, 2 radio controlled watches, the computers on the TIS and the CIS boards all differ

 

[Skoodle]

Reasons I've left stations "early":

1) My diagram differed to the station display. I followed the diagram as it was an amended one, presumably (hopefully) correct.
2) My company issue watch failed. I drive DOO and can't see CIS displays at most stations. I made an educated guess until I could replace it.
3) I've been late at the previous 35 stations and accidentally expected I was a bit behind schedule still when I wasn't.
4) Platform staff watches have gone wibble.
5) I accidentally left early. Shock horror.
6) I did it to wind up TimG.

I've had all of the above plus being asked by the signaller to depart early to help clear a queue of trains waiting to come in to the terminus platform I was in.

 

[Monty]

Then it will be pointed out that the station clock may not match the watch used by the guard hence the discrepancy.

This is not as far fetched as people may think. Basingstoke's station clocks on the CIS (Customer Infomation System) screens were found to be running over a minute early sometime last year and it had been like that for several weeks before being rectified.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseyrail have a nasty habbit of doing it and as much as you *could* say its a genuine mistake its not. It always seems to happen when the crews swap over :/ but a few other times too such as the last train!

The last train should never, ever, for any reason, depart early. It should be checked carefully, and if the PIS is seen to be wrong it should be checked. Better to run a few minutes late. At other times on Merseyrail the effect is probably limited with the high frequency service that operates.

A LM guard I know personally told me that they tend to run the last train of the evening from Euston (0134 weekdays, 0010 Saturdays) a couple of minutes late just to catch the stragglers, FWIW.
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Don't worry, in the booking office my phone, 2 radio controlled watches, the computers on the TIS and the CIS boards all differ

It really wouldn't be that hard to get them all showing the same thing, surely.

 

[A-driver]

The last train should never, ever, for any reason, depart early. It should be checked carefully, and if the PIS is seen to be wrong it should be checked. Better to run a few minutes late. At other times on Merseyrail the effect is probably limited with the high frequency service that operates.

A LM guard I know personally told me that they tend to run the last train of the evening from Euston (0134 weekdays, 0010 Saturdays) a couple of minutes late just to catch the stragglers, FWIW.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---








It really wouldn't be that hard to get them all showing the same thing, surely.

The last train shouldn't leave early, no. Nor should any train.

But as this thread has shown, things happen and people make mistakes. Not the end of the world, get over it and move on with life...

 

[Bletchleyite]

But as this thread has shown, things happen and people make mistakes. Not the end of the world, get over it and move on with life...

Extra special effort should go into ensuring that the last train does not run early, because of the obvious impact of people being stuck overnight and the low level of staffing meaning that people would have to pay for taxis themselves - or possibly be totally stuck if unable to afford it.

 

[A-driver]

Extra special effort should go into ensuring that the last train does not run early, because of the obvious impact of people being stuck overnight and the low level of staffing meaning that people would have to pay for taxis themselves - or possibly be totally stuck if unable to afford it.

Well effort is put into ensuring no train leaves early, but as I say, mistakes happen and there are reasons trains end up leaving early.

By the same token passengers should make "extra special effort" as you put it to arrive particularly early for he last train to ensure they don't miss it.

Plus, as I have said before, not all staff will know they are driven the last train over a particular route. It can be obvious on mainline routes but not always on branch lines.

 

[Bletchleyite]

By the same token passengers should make "extra special effort" as you put it to arrive particularly early for he last train to ensure they don't miss it.

Probably sensible. But just running it a little late can be a reasonable solution, as the LM guard I mentioned said to me.

You could almost argue that having the WTT 2-3 minutes after the PTT on departing major stations on those services might be sensible.

 

[A-driver]

Probably sensible. But just running it a little late can be a reasonable solution, as the LM guard I mentioned said to me.



You could almost argue that having the WTT 2-3 minutes after the PTT on departing major stations on those services might be sensible.

You could almost argue that you are trying to find a solution for a non existent problem as well. Perhaps before you go further you should present us with figures of how many people miss the last train of the night as it departed more than 30sec early and were left stranded all night...

 

[40129]

You could almost argue that having the WTT 2-3 minutes after the PTT on departing major stations on those services might be sensible.

The problem with this however is that if passengers see a train regularly departing later than shown in the PTT they will turn up for the time the train normally leaves

 

[The Planner]

You will also get everyone moaning that their train arrives and leaves late.

 

[G0ORC]

I think there's a certain level of pragmatism going on here. How many timepieces should the guard consult before departure?

Old chinese proverb...

"man with one watch always know time - man with two never does"