Trains leaving early

[158747]

I say if the train departs up to 2 minutes early and you miss it then it's your own bloody fault. Buses leave early all the time and you don't see people whinging about it. If the train leaves 3 whole minutes early then you may have a case. But in my experience the last trains often tend to depart a minute late rather than a minute early anyway.

How can it be the passengers fault if they miss a train which departs 2 minutes early?

 

[jon0844]

It's also wrong when buses do it and people DO whinge about it.

Damn right. And any half decent bus operator takes it very seriously too.

I accept people make mistakes and would be inclined to believe on the railway it would be almost always a genuine mistake for a range of reasons, but on the buses it's purely the fault of the driver.

 

[Merseysider]

How can it be the passengers fault if they miss a train which departs 2 minutes early?

Poor planning. Would you turn up for a job interview 2 minutes early?

 

[Antman]

I say if the train departs up to 2 minutes early and you miss it then it's your own bloody fault. Buses leave early all the time and you don't see people whinging about it. If the train leaves 3 whole minutes early then you may have a case. But in my experience the last trains often tend to depart a minute late rather than a minute early anyway.

This is ridiculous, buses shouldn't be leaving early and believe me if they do the chances are that somebody will be complaining about it and rightly so. How on earth is it "your own bloody fault" if your train leaves up to two minutes early?:roll:

 

[hulabaloo]

Poor planning. Would you turn up for a job interview 2 minutes early?

It depends if my train had left early or not

 

[Merseysider]

This is ridiculous, buses shouldn't be leaving early and believe me if they do the chances are that somebody will be complaining about it and rightly so. How on earth is it "your own bloody fault" if your train leaves up to two minutes early?:roll:

The train leaving early isn't the passenger's fault but the passenger missing the train is. Do you honestly think leaving 120 seconds to catch the last train of the night is sensible?

 

[Trainfan344]

How can it be the passengers fault if they miss a train which departs 2 minutes early?

What if they've left 5 minutes connection time as recommended and they've missed it due to the train leaving early?

 

[Antman]

The train leaving early isn't the passenger's fault but the passenger missing the train is. Do you honestly think leaving 120 seconds to catch the last train of the night is sensible?

Well it's not ideal but if said passenger had been delayed en route to the station

 

[Merseysider]

Well it's not ideal but if said passenger had been delayed en route to the station

Then said passenger would be conveyed by the TOC to their destination by other means if the delay was due to another train

Otherwise that's what taxis are for!

 

[158747]

Poor planning. Would you turn up for a job interview 2 minutes early?[/QUOTE

Not intentionally, but things can and do go wrong. Ideally it is a good idea to arrive at the station in good time, but there are many things that can happen to prevent this. As long as a passenger arrives on the platform before departure time they expect to be able to catch the train.
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poor planning. Would you turn up for a job interview 2 minutes early?[/quote

not intentionally, but things can and do go wrong. Ideally it is a good idea to arrive at the station in good time, but there are many things that can happen to prevent this. As long as a passenger arrives on the platform before departure time they expect to be able to catch the train.

 

[johntea]

Here's an interesting one.

Just left work for the 17:27 Saltaire to Bradford service but I get to the station around 17:26 and it's not there. Now I can see the station from a bit of a walk away so I assume it is running delayed.

Get to the station and no sign of the train but just checked my departures online and it even says 'Departed 3 minutes early'!

 

[martynbristow]

Here's an interesting one.

Just left work for the 17:27 Saltaire to Bradford service but I get to the station around 17:26 and it's not there. Now I can see the station from a bit of a walk away so I assume it is running delayed.

Get to the station and no sign of the train but just checked my departures online and it even says 'Departed 3 minutes early'!

It actually states No Report on RTT - I'm aware some places interpolate between when it has No Report. It was 3E at bradford foster square

 

[fowler9]

The train leaving early isn't the passenger's fault but the passenger missing the train is. Do you honestly think leaving 120 seconds to catch the last train of the night is sensible?

That is absolutely ridiculous. Seriously! It is your fault if you miss the train because it leaves two minutes early. The reason for ones late arrival at the station could be any number of things including poor planning. But if you get to the platform two minutes before departure you should be able to get on. We aren't talking having to go through check in and security here.

 

[infobleep]

What if they've left 5 minutes connection time as recommended and they've missed it due to the train leaving early?

Well then they clearly didn't run fast enough along the platforms and/or across the footbridge/subway. If people were in the way slowing them down then they were not pushing through them fast enough.

I've never had to run to catch a train leaving early but I do have to run around stations when trains arrive late. This very occasional problem only seems to occur during rush hour, although as I mostly travel through the rush hour, that's not surprising.
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As expected, TheEdge's forecast in post #2 is spot on (and probably more accurate than the Met Office's one for this weekend).

Couldn't agree more. Felt like I had been transported back to earlier threads, one of which I started, and I've not even read all of this thread!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That train appears to have travelled back in time.

According to RTT, this train, this train and this train all appear to have left 45 seconds, 30 seconds and 15 seconds early respectively. That's clearly a major problem that needs addressing by upper management and people need to be sacked and the watchmakers need to be sued and imagine all those poor passengers left stranded at Crewe overnight (there must be crowds of them) because their planning was immaculate but it wasn't their fault the careless staff left a fraction of a minute early

I say if the train departs up to 2 minutes early and you miss it then it's your own bloody fault. Buses leave early all the time and you don't see people whinging about it. If the train leaves 3 whole minutes early then you may have a case. But in my experience the last trains often tend to depart a minute late rather than a minute early anyway.

I actually once complained about a bus leaving early. This was over 16 years ago. I was running to the bus stop when the bus went passed. A passing motorist stopped and said the bus driver saw me and carried on. The bus was early that day. The motorist very kindly offered to give me a lift. Given they were a woman and I'm a man, that was very nice of them. After all they didn't know me. I accepted and avoid a 30 minute wait for the next bus service.

The bus driver didn't have a great personality when it came to deal with passengers and after a time I didn't see him any more so I hope he got another job away from public facing duties. It clearly wasn't for him.

 

[josh-j]

My view as a passenger can be simplified to:

*The "train's" part of the deal is to leave on time, and if the passengers are late and miss it its their own fault.

*The passenger's part of the deal is to be on the platform before the time the train is supposed to close its doors. If the train leaves early, it is the "train's" fault.

I think its possible to accept these statements without it implying casting rail staff in a bad light. Of course mistakes happen, both by passengers and by guards, dispatchers etc.
But if the train leaves early it still isn't the passenger's fault if they were there at the right time, however marginal. Otherwise where do you draw the line? Surely the line should be drawn at the departure time / door closing time.

I'll be clear in saying I don't have anything bad to say about rail staff, I just don't think this can be blamed on passengers. Of course if a passenger wishes to be extra sure, they should arrive extra early. But that isn't to say it should be their fault when a train leaves earlier than its supposed to and they miss it.

 

[johntea]

17:12 from Saltaire to Leeds was moving by 17:11:30 by my iPhone clock.

I know that doesn't sound like much and I'm not posting to have a moan about it, but I've actually noticed on the Airedale line being a regular user that the trains used to be notorious for having a tight timetable and frequently arriving at stations a couple of minutes late. They recently seem to have fixed that but now they often seem to depart the stations a minute or so early

 

[455driver]

17:12 from Saltaire to Leeds was moving by 17:11:30 by my iPhone clock.

I know that doesn't sound like much and I'm not posting to have a moan about it, but I've actually noticed on the Airedale line being a regular user that the trains used to be notorious for having a tight timetable and frequently arriving at stations a couple of minutes late. They recently seem to have fixed that but now they often seem to depart the stations a minute or so early

And how accurate is your watch exactly?

Ask any bus driver how accurate passengers (especially pensioners) watches are?
Twerly time is 9:25 when their passes become valid at 09:30 and they come out with the "but its nine thirty with my watch" and then try and keep the bus there until it actually is 09:30 so they can have a free ride even though it delays all the other passengers on the bus

 

[DaleCooper]

And how accurate is your watch exactly?

I was thinking that too so I checked my phone and pc against a radio controlled clock - they were all exactly the same a far as I could tell, certainly within a second of each other.

Only a snapshot I know but interesting nonetheless, gone are the days when we set our clocks by the railway.

 

[fowler9]

And how accurate is your watch exactly?

Ask any bus driver how accurate passengers (especially pensioners) watches are?
Twerly time is 9:25 when their passes become valid at 09:30 and they come out with the "but its nine thirty with my watch" and then try and keep the bus there until it actually is 09:30 so they can have a free ride even though it delays all the other passengers on the bus

Ha ha. My regular bus to work used to be the twerly bus. Every day the same twerlys were there. Didn't bother me, most of the drivers would let them on even though technically they were bunking on like the naughty youngn's. What baffled me was why they didn't wait 10 minutes. The bus behind was often empty because all the twerlys bunked on the one before.

 

[johntea]

My phone is accurate enough for the connecting train

I don't set the time on it so I'm guessing it syncs through either a mobile signal or an Internet source somehow.

I do catch at least 4 train services a day and often compare my phone clock to those at Leeds station, it pretty much matches up!

 

[martynbristow]

And how accurate is your watch exactly?

Ask any bus driver how accurate passengers (especially pensioners) watches are?
Twerly time is 9:25 when their passes become valid at 09:30 and they come out with the "but its nine thirty with my watch" and then try and keep the bus there until it actually is 09:30 so they can have a free ride even though it delays all the other passengers on the bus

Twerlys-same rule applies to the train usage here but I'm sure I've seen them sneaking on an 8am sardine can :/
In seriousness iPhones use time.apple.com. Computers need accurate time checks for various protocols.
It should be the buses timetabled time anyway, as it is with trains. It would keep the twerlys quiet.

 

[cjmillsnun]

And how accurate is your watch exactly?

Most smartphone clocks use ntp and sync their time via the internet. Ultimately this means taking a reading from a stratum 0 clock, normally an atomic clock. This normally gives a accuracy within milliseconds.

 

[A-driver]

Most smartphone clocks use ntp and sync their time via the internet. Ultimately this means taking a reading from a stratum 0 clock, normally an atomic clock. This normally gives a accuracy within milliseconds.

Largely irrelevant though as the train driver won't be going by their iPhone for te time but by their watch or can clock which may not match a phone to the second.

 

[DaleCooper]

Largely irrelevant though as the train driver won't be going by their iPhone for te time but by their watch or can clock which may not match a phone to the second.

Don't drivers use radio controlled watches which are synchronised to the same signal as phones? See post 108.

 

[A-driver]

Don't drivers use radio controlled watches which are synchronised to the same signal as phones? See post 108.

Yes, but they arnt as accurate as you may think. Line 5 up in a messroom and you will get 2 or 3 different times on them.

 

[DaleCooper]

Yes, but they arnt as accurate as you may think. Line 5 up in a messroom and you will get 2 or 3 different times on them.

I think that must be because they have lost the signal which can be shielded by the metal framework of buildings or other structures and watches probably aren't as sensitive as full size clocks due to aerial limitations.

 

[A-driver]

I think that must be because they have lost the signal which can be shielded by the metal framework of buildings or other structures and watches probably aren't as sensitive as full size clocks due to aerial limitations.

...um, yes. Plus they are cheap tat.

Dosnt change the fact that just because they are radio controlled it dosnt mean they are 100% accurate and most definately dosnt mean that they will match platform clocks.

 

[DaleCooper]

...um, yes. Plus they are cheap tat.

I didn't realise that, I naively assumed they were good quality, you live and learn.

 

[40129]

My radio watch has a symbol that is displayed if it manages to check itself overnight (blank otherwise) so I know if I need to be extra careful. Strangely, though it is usually 1/2 a second ahead of the departure board clocks but in sync with the freestanding station clocks

 

[Flamingo]

These are the issued watches:
http://www.watch-heaven.com