Trains that don't fit the pattern (mainly Glasgow)

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p123

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Ok, so on the Helensburgh-Edinburgh (via Airdrie/Bathgate) line services are booked to run Helensburgh to Dalmuir, then non-stop from Dalmuir to Hyndland via Yoker.

However, a few weeks ago I overheard a conversation by TE's on my train that one (yes, just one) during the day goes via Singer. The conversation was fairly amusing, with one TE asking the other if they'd imagined it, or fallen asleep, or if a giant magnet had moved the train from platform 4 to platform 2 at Dalmuir... however, a driver later joined them and confirmed that one train each day runs via Singer (still non-stop between Dalmuir and Hyndland) rather than via Yoker.

Today, I was standing at Singer station, and managed to spot this train passing through - right behind a stopper that it would normally 'overtake' by running express via Yoker.

So it's the 1540 from Helensburgh-Edinburgh... and this little swap of the jigsaw pieces appears (at first glance) to serve no purpose other than to increase journey time on the Helensburgh-Edinburgh train by a grand total of 6 minutes and have it running behind the Larkhall service as opposed to in front of it when passing through Hyndland and Partick.

Dare I ask, what kind of operational reason would require this once-a-day swap? Seems really odd that a train in the middle of the afternoon has a different path over part of its route compared to every other service during the day.

Apologies if you're not familiar with the route. If I haven't been clear (which given I'm rambling a bit, there's a fairly high chance of...) then feel free to ask for more details!

So yeah, once a day. Why?
 
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Big Chris

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The most likely reason for such a diversion would be retention of route knowledge for diversions. Many regular services have one or two a day that take an alternate route to maintain crew knowledge. Virgin services on the Northampton loop being a prime example.
 

p123

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Possibly, but it's my understanding that the drivers on this route work generally between Helensburgh/Dalmuir/Hyndland/Airdrie/Springburn on a mixture of services that can go either via Singer or Yoker.

If there's anyone from SR on here maybe they could let us know what routes are signed for these drivers (hopefully not getting too nosey just yet!)
 

reb0118

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Just off the top of my head are there any West Highland Line Services booked that may cause a conflict of interests? I can't see it as for route retention as I would assume crews would work a mixture of fast/slow trains over both routes.
 
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Ok, so on the Helensburgh-Edinburgh (via Airdrie/Bathgate) line services are booked to run Helensburgh to Dalmuir, then non-stop from Dalmuir to Hyndland via Yoker.

However, a few weeks ago I overheard a conversation by TE's on my train that one (yes, just one) during the day goes via Singer. The conversation was fairly amusing, with one TE asking the other if they'd imagined it, or fallen asleep, or if a giant magnet had moved the train from platform 4 to platform 2 at Dalmuir... however, a driver later joined them and confirmed that one train each day runs via Singer (still non-stop between Dalmuir and Hyndland) rather than via Yoker.

Today, I was standing at Singer station, and managed to spot this train passing through - right behind a stopper that it would normally 'overtake' by running express via Yoker.

So it's the 1540 from Helensburgh-Edinburgh... and this little swap of the jigsaw pieces appears (at first glance) to serve no purpose other than to increase journey time on the Helensburgh-Edinburgh train by a grand total of 6 minutes and have it running behind the Larkhall service as opposed to in front of it when passing through Hyndland and Partick.

Dare I ask, what kind of operational reason would require this once-a-day swap? Seems really odd that a train in the middle of the afternoon has a different path over part of its route compared to every other service during the day.

Apologies if you're not familiar with the route. If I haven't been clear (which given I'm rambling a bit, there's a fairly high chance of...) then feel free to ask for more details!

So yeah, once a day. Why?

And this post, Lady and Gentlemen is what makes this site so good, its these random quirks which make the railway in Britain so Interesting, well done on spotting this, as no public timetable would be able to show this.

It is stange as the Singer line from Westerton to Hyndland West Junc. is very busy, and I am sure Anniesland is not chuffed at having a train passing through without stopping.
 

p123

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Thanks for the compliment ObservationCar, made me smile! And yes you're right, this stretch is busy (6 tph between Westerton and Hyndland junction)! The Edinburgh train at that time absolutly crawls behind a Larkhall stopper - I'm fairly sure it could stop at 2 or 3 stations along the way and still be able to keep to it's booked times from Hyndland onwards.

There's no West Highland trains booked around that time of day near there, even if there were they go via Singer (as far as Westerton) so removing anything in it's way would really require a path via Yoker (the other line).

The ECS movement from Yoker seems like a plausible theory, yes! I hadn't thought of rush hour. Seems strange to divert the train though causing it to take 6 minutes longer, would a better option maybe not have been just to let it run via Yoker and perhaps sit at Yoker or outside Garscadden for 6 minutes. Or even add a call in at Clydebank, it's quite busy at that time of night!
 
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Just off the top of my head are there any West Highland Line Services booked that may cause a conflict of interests? I can't see it as for route retention as I would assume crews would work a mixture of fast/slow trains over both routes.

WHL services join the line between Anniesland and Westerton (on the Singer loop) so are never on the Yoker section, the plot thickens :lol:

I doubt it's route knowledge, I'd imagine all drivers can go via Yoker, via Singer or to Milngavie anyway, same way I'd assume all drivers can go to Neilston, Newton and the Cathcart Circle.

Wouldn't be freight would it, why would freight ever go via Yoker as from there how is it going to avoid the low level stations, you don't get freight down there.
 

D1009

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a driver later joined them and confirmed that one train each day runs via Singer (still non-stop between Dalmuir and Hyndland) rather than via Yoker.

It's not non-stop, it calls at Drumchapel. Don't know why, possibly schoolchildren ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
this stretch is busy (6 tph between Westerton and Hyndland junction)!

There are actually 8 tph, 4 tph from Milngavie to Edinburgh or Lanark, and 4 tph from the Dalmuir direction.
 

table38

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At Huddersfield, "all" of the Stalybridge-bound TPX services depart from Platform 1 and the Victoria stoppers from 4B.

I confidently strolled up to Platform 1 with about a minute to go, to find the fast TPX train pulling into Platform 4 :shock:

Apparently it was also a regular route knowledge move.
 

p123

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It's not non-stop, it calls at Drumchapel. Don't know why, possibly schoolchildren ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


There are actually 8 tph, 4 tph from Milngavie to Edinburgh or Lanark, and 4 tph from the Dalmuir direction.

My bad! I'm living in pre-Larkhall rail link world where Milngavie only had 2 tph. Thanks for pointing that out!

How did you find it calls at Drumchapel? According to SR's timetable:

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/timetables-routes/1931/1951/2011/winter

And NRE:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timetable/details?id=1&return=false&callingPage=tf

it doesn't call at Drumchapel. Are you possibly thinking of the Larkhall or Airdrie services that run a few minutes before and after this train passes through Drumchapel? Or do you have some interesting secret info for us to deepen this mystery?!
 

D1009

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How did you find it calls at Drumchapel? According to SR's timetable:

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/timetables-routes/1931/1951/2011/winter

And NRE:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timetable/details?id=1&return=false&callingPage=tf

it doesn't call at Drumchapel. Are you possibly thinking of the Larkhall or Airdrie services that run a few minutes before and after this train passes through Drumchapel? Or do you have some interesting secret info for us to deepen this mystery?!

I was referring to TRUST, so presumably the stop's not advertised for some reason, so yes the mystery deepens!
 

p123

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Wow!

What's an unadvertised stop, if I don't sound to silly in asking? Are they fairly widespread? And why would one exist... especially at a seemingy random Glasgow suburban station?
 

p123

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I'm curious now as to what this unadvertised stop actually is. Tempted to go ride the service at the weekend and see if the doors are opened at Drumchapel!

Strange though that this mystery continued to deepen! Beginning to wonder really why it can't go via Yoker at this time, as surely even a couple of ECS movements won't get in the way that much.
 

calc7

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At Huddersfield, "all" of the Stalybridge-bound TPX services depart from Platform 1 and the Victoria stoppers from 4B.

I confidently strolled up to Platform 1 with about a minute to go, to find the fast TPX train pulling into Platform 4 :shock:

Apparently it was also a regular route knowledge move.

That's a bit of a mind**** for me - Platform 1 for TPE to Manchester must be second nature to everybody using Huddersfield!
 

Class172

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A similar situation happens on BHM-HFD services. A limited amount (usually last train) do not go via Bromsgrove but via Kidderminster, to retain driver knowledge. Last night when I was on one (23:16 BHM-WOS) and we were crawling along at about 25mph until Stourbridge Junction, stuck behind the last BMO-WOS train.
 

D1009

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A similar situation happens on BHM-HFD services. A limited amount (usually last train) do not go via Bromsgrove but via Kidderminster, to retain driver knowledge. Last night when I was on one (23:16 BHM-WOS) and we were crawling along at about 25mph until Stourbridge Junction, stuck behind the last BMO-WOS train.

That's not for route knowledge, it's what they need the route knowledge for ! There is regular overnight engineering work in the Bromsgrove area involving the High Output Track Renewal train. The route shuts at 2200, and the last XC and LM trains and all the overnight freight goes via Kidderminster until 11th May. The last Worcester reverts to 2300 via Bromsgrove from 14th May.
 

matchmaker

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Back in the old (old, old, old) days pre Argyle Line the weekday service was (outwith rush hours) utterly predicable with very few exceptions:

Airdrie - Helensburgh via Singer (headcode 15)
Bridgeton - Balloch via Yoker (headcode 26)
Springburn- Milngavie (headcode 65)

So if you got on at (say) Easterhouse and wanted to travel to Clydebank you had to change - Hyndland was the favourite.
 

p123

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I think it's still fairly predictable these days, just more complicated.

Mon-Sat daytime:
Helensburgh-Edinburgh (Runs express Dumbarton East to Dalmuir and Dalmuir to Hyndland) 2tph
Milngavie-Edinburgh (Runs express High St to Coatbridge, Coatbridge to Airdrie and Drumgelloch to Bathgate) 2tph
Balloch-Airdrie 2tph
Dalmuir-Larkhall 2tph
Dalmuir-Springburn 2tph
Dalmuir-Lanark 1tph
Dalmuir-Motherwell 1tph
Milngavie-Lanark 1tph
Milngavie-Motherwell 1tph

And... in all fairness my mystery train fits this pattern. Is just goes a slightly different route. Once a day.
 
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