Tram Penalty

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by Jaybee111, 12 Oct 2017.

  1. BurtonM

    BurtonM Member

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    To me, this poster reads like the maximum Oyster fare is the penalty for not touching in twice. There's nothing more to the poster in fact.

    I agree with this idea - after all bus stops don't have Oyster readers.
     
  2. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    But a bus only has one entrance bar the boris buses and are not trams.
     
  3. Realfish

    Realfish Member

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    Just back from Lisbon* and Amsterdam where the (*newer) trams have readers at all of their entrances.
     
  4. Jaybee111

    Jaybee111 Member

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    So my appeal was denied. Generic response saying that we are not accusing you of deliberate fare evasion - the penalty was for not paying for my journey. Of course from my point of view, what I paid for was the wrong journey. Can't help but feel very angry about this. Anyway I will go to the next round of appeals.
     
  5. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    If they say they aren't accusing you of deliberate evasion, then that means they have accepted that their signage is inadequate, which gives another reason to uphold an appeal!
     
  6. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    I visited the station recently and believe the signage is indeed woefully inadequate. If you read all the notices at the station, you are actually required to touch TWO tram Oyster readers on the platform not one, while the posters at the top of the stairs make it optional, saying merely you'll be charged a maximum fare if you don't. I observed many people touching various sequences of readers, but they all knew exactly what to do - I didn't see anyone pausing to read the instructions, and when it's busy, you don't even notice the low-level readers as other people hide them from view. There's only a tiny blue notice saying it's a compulsory ticket area and that might breach the rules too.
     
  7. Jaybee111

    Jaybee111 Member

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    Thank you for the messages. The problem is trying to persuade the relevant people of that especially when from their point of view there is no reason to admit there is anything wrong because all they do is collect the money.<(
     
  8. Sussex Guy

    Sussex Guy Member

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    Absolutely, this really is daylight robbery!
     
  9. londonbridge

    londonbridge Member

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    Since when??? If I've arrived at Wimbledon by foot I touch once on the external gateline and then once on the tram platform reader. If I've arrived by tube or National Rail I walk to the tram platform and touch once on the reader. Where do you get touching two tram readers on the platform from?? :s
     
  10. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    There are two tram readers and the small print on each of them says you must use it. It doesn't say that if you already used the first one you can ignore the second one.
     
  11. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    No offence here but that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read - no one in their right mind would think that they have to touch both of them - I know you are trying to help but come on that's properly clutching at straws
     
  12. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Well there are actually three now, one near the new platform 10b and two next to platform 10a, however
    I have to agree with this. If it were true, people at Stratford switching from paper to Oyster would have to go around several platforms to take in every one of the 8+ Oyster validators.
     
  13. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Cluelessness. This, along with the regular posting of false hope in various D&P threads could be quite damaging to anyone looking for genuine advice.
     
  14. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    But that's the same reasoning that says because you already touched in upstairs, you don't need to touch in again on the platform. It's only by reading the text on each reader you pass that you find out otherwise - and both of them instruct you to touch them if using the tram even if you already touched another reader. Also, I saw a lot of people touching on two readers - both the national rail one and the tram one - thinking they were touching out from one then touching in on the other I presume.
     
  15. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    What's Stratford got do with this? I highly doubt that those readers bear the same small print as the Wimbledon tram ones.
     
  16. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    Im at west croydon and therea two on platform 3 that sayvyou must touch in and out on them are you saying i should do this because they say so?
     
  17. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    I really don't think your logic is correct here?
     
  18. PeterC

    PeterC Member

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    Don't underestimate the ability of the public to get things wrong.
     
  19. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    I generally dont but the signage at the station entrance and all over the tram system states what to do and having 3 oyster readers there doesnt imply you have to touxh on them all.
     
  20. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    They both say you "must" use "this" reader "even if you have touched in previously at this station" - no exceptions. So people think it's OK to ignore that in one case and not the other because they know it doesn't mean what it says? Even though ignoring it can seemingly lead to a Penalty Fare?
     
  21. Sussex Guy

    Sussex Guy Member

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    When even staff get confused by the arrangements it does kind of tell you something.
     
  22. island

    island Established Member

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    I think the interpretation that you must touch multiple readers on the platform is patently absurd.
     
  23. PeterC

    PeterC Member

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    It is to anybody with an in depth knowledge of the Oyster system. Considering how many people I have seen using yellow platform readers unnecessarily at other stations I wouldn't extend that to all of the general public.

    Of more concern is the traveller who thinks that they understand the system and so believe it unecessary to pay any attention to the platform readers as they *know* that they have legitimately touched in.
     
  24. Realfish

    Realfish Member

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    Exactly so. Not familiar with the stations, I nearly came to grief with a RPI at Blackfriars a few months back who accused me of not tapping in - his hand held machine confirmed it. I argued that I had and fortunately he lost interest. I had travelled from Kings Cross on the H&C to Farringdon, saw a yellow reader, at the foot of the stairs as I left the TfL platform so tapped out, then tapped back in again on the southbound Thameslink platform. After our 'discussion' I tapped out at Blackfriars. My Oyster history showed; Tapped in - Kings Cross St P; Tapped out Farringdon; Tapped out Farringdon; Tapped out Blackfriars. The correct fare was deducted for the whole journey. I think I was lucky that the RPI had better things to do, if he hadn't...?
     
  25. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    The validators at Farringdon are set to continuation exit. This means that you'd have to wait 15 minutes before touching another one would produce an entry. However it does keep the journey open, so as you discovered it closed it properly at Blackfriars. The RPI should have been able to detect this.

    Had your second touch at Farringdon recorded an entry you'd have been charged for two journeys.
     

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