tram track over level crossing

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L&Y Robert

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I remember once, when I was quite a small boy, being shown a level crossing in Brussels (soon after the war, it'd be) where the tram track in the street crossed the mian line railway on the level crossing. It might even have been dual guage tram-track (City - standard guage, Vicinal - metre guage) but I don't remember that. What I do seem to remember is the complexity of the overhead, where the tram wires mingled with the railway electification wires. I'm not certain of the details, though, and I wonder if the Belgian railways were electrified in the post-war era. Anybody know? Maybe my mischievous mind is bringing in complications that were not real! What was real was the level crossing.
 
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Ah, looks like the middle section above the crossing is an all-neutral section.

Bit of a problem if a train or tram has to slam the brakes on whilst on the crossing, and stops with the panto in the dead-square.
 

MK Tom

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If anyone has the book 'Heyday of the Trolleybus' by Howard Piltz, there's a picture in that showing a Hull trolleybus going over a level crossing. I can imagine that being a fairly noisy experience, especially given the lack of engine sound. Does anyone know if any of the numerous extensive trolleybus systems we used to have in the UK ever crossed an electrified line, or if that happens in any other countries?
 

apk55

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If anyone has the book 'Heyday of the Trolleybus' by Howard Piltz, there's a picture in that showing a Hull trolleybus going over a level crossing. I can imagine that being a fairly noisy experience, especially given the lack of engine sound. Does anyone know if any of the numerous extensive trolleybus systems we used to have in the UK ever crossed an electrified line, or if that happens in any other countries?
There has been an Electric railway crossing a trolley bus route in the UK, the Harton Electric Railway crossing a Sunderland trolley bus route. There is a picture of the overhead arrangement in the book "The Harton Electric Railway" by William Hatcher, Oakwood press
 

Sir_Clagalot

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I have been fortunate to have had a cab ride (for the driver's entire shift, he is a relation!) over part of the Melbourne system 7 years ago... IIRc the tram and heavy rail both use 1500VDC (the trams might use 750 I cant remember) and have to coast over the crossing, though there is one crossing where the trains are allowed to exceed the 15kmh limit as otherwise they would grind to a halt halfway along a platform, and with not being able to take power for fear of blowing the breakers on the tram circuit...
 

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I had thought (on a semi related note) that if the line that crosses the ECML at almost a right angle (can't remember which line it is, but I know it is passenger) were electrified, it could cause some problems.

Well, I suspect in such a case, it either couldn't be overhead electrified or it'd have to be grade separated
 

Yew

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I had thought (on a semi related note) that if the line that crosses the ECML at almost a right angle (can't remember which line it is, but I know it is passenger) were electrified, it could cause some problems.

Well, I suspect in such a case, it either couldn't be overhead electrified or it'd have to be grade separated
That would eb the Nottingham - Lincoln line (called the newark joint line?) It crosses the ECML at Newark level crossing. There is also a chord on the southeast corner

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=53.090661,-0.804835&num=1&t=h&gl=uk&z=18&iwloc=near

EDIT: for any kayakers out there, the weir near the level crossing is not the one you paddle! Its the left hand one of the other two in newark :)
 

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jopsuk

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I had thought (on a semi related note) that if the line that crosses the ECML at almost a right angle (can't remember which line it is, but I know it is passenger) were electrified, it could cause some problems.

Well, I suspect in such a case, it either couldn't be overhead electrified or it'd have to be grade separated
Not at all- though it would be, like with the tram crossing illustrated, a neutral section for all line. Easily done.
 

L&Y Robert

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There has been an Electric railway crossing a trolley bus route in the UK, the Harton Electric Railway crossing a Sunderland trolley bus route. There is a picture of the overhead arrangement in the book "The Harton Electric Railway" by William Hatcher, Oakwood press
Not quite on the thread, but somehow associated, is another phenomenon seen in Brussels at that time. We were waiting to cross the road at a city cross-roads where a trolley-bus routinely turned from one road into the other, and went on its way. The remarkable thing about it was the trolley-bus had only one trolley! The missing trolley was a sort of skate thing which trailed slightly behind; I remember it clattering over the cobbles as the bus turned, and watching it "find" the tram-rail and drop cosily into the groove. The overhead had a "chord" wire joining the respective tram-wires of the intersecting routes. You wouldn't get away with that sort of thing today!
 

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Whilst not strictly in the spirit of this thread, the thread title of "Tram track over level crossing" could also be used in the case of where the Seaton Tramway crosses the A3052 road at a level crossing with barriers near to the Colyford to Colyton area.
There's at least two of these on Nottinghams Hucknall tram route at Bulwell Forest (CCTV LC) and Brickyard Lane (ABCL LC) where the line runs parralel to the Robin Hood Line but the barriers are closed for trams as well as trains. I think there may also be a third at Lincoln St, but i cannot recall whether the barriers close off the tram line as well, or just the heavy rail part of the crossing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not at all- though it would be, like with the tram crossing illustrated, a neutral section for all line. Easily done.
Would it even have to be a neutral section as long as both were electrified at the same voltage? We have had electrified diamond crossings since the year dot havn't we?
Perhaps i'm missing something.
 

jopsuk

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perhaps wouldn't have to be a neutral section, but would have to make sure it's all fed from the same supply point- which I appreciate wouldn't be that hard.
 

Tomnick

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I think there may also be a third at Lincoln St, but i cannot recall whether the barriers close off the tram line as well, or just the heavy rail part of the crossing.
The trams run outside the LC barriers at Lincoln St., but I understand there's some interlinking to prevent the barriers being raised when a tram's approaching.
That would eb the Nottingham - Lincoln line (called the newark joint line?)
At the risk of going off-topic, I've never heard it referred to as the Newark Joint line. The 'Joint' (locally) is the former GN&GE Joint line, Spalding (March, once upon a time) to Doncaster. Nottingham to the start of the BR deviation at Lincoln (and once on into St Marks) was pure Midland.
 

Kneedown

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The trams run outside the LC barriers at Lincoln St., but I understand there's some interlinking to prevent the barriers being raised when a tram's approaching.
I had an idea that was the case, thanks for the confirmation.
I wonder how often folks pull right up to the barriers thus blocking the tram line.
 

L&Y Robert

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perhaps wouldn't have to be a neutral section, but would have to make sure it's all fed from the same supply point- which I appreciate wouldn't be that hard.
- - -and what if the railway is 25kv ac, and the tram-line is 600v dc? Some serious dead sections and some even more serious switching arrangements!
 

Tomnick

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I wonder how often folks pull right up to the barriers thus blocking the tram line.
I thought the same when I was writing my reply. Looking at Google Streetview, I suspect the road traffic signals might be linked with the operation of the crossing (to keep road traffic back at the marked stop line). I'm sure there's the odd fool who gets it wrong though!
 

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jopsuk

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- - -and what if the railway is 25kv ac, and the tram-line is 600v dc? Some serious dead sections and some even more serious switching arrangements!
The "no neutral sections" was in reference to potentially electrifying the line that crosses at Newark
 

LE Greys

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Rather a nice demonstration of a tram/trolleybus crossing here, but I presume these would be the same voltage on the same phase. Doing the same with an a.c. line would probably require a neutral section, but that's just a guess.
 
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