Transfer KXG - PAD is 39 mins enough?

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Optimo

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Got to do a long multi-leg trip from Aviemore to Plymouth next Friday.

I have already booked the leg from PAD-PLY, 16:33 departure, as this was pre-arranged for some time. FGW First Advance Single.

Options from Aviemore are the 08:29 - 15:53 to KGX. £69.50
Or the earlier 07:25 - 14:53, which unfortunately just doubled to £138 during the booking process.

Is 39 mins an acceptable time to transfer between Kings Cross and Paddington? TFL JP ways 15 mins

If I miss my 16:33, it looks like it's £50 for a replacement single on the 17:03, which seems like a reasonable risk.

Assuming there's no 'joined up delay repay' if my Aviemore train is delayed?

[Oh wow, scrub all that, all the prices just rocketed while I wrote this! Now £222 for the 07:25 and £104 for the 08:29. Be cheaper flying! Now confused. £66 price still available on EastCoast.co.uk, but NationalRail.co.uk says otherwise. My head hurts.]
 
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calc7

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I will wait for somebody else to comment on the minimum connection time as I cannot locate the document right now.

I too have been having some issues with the EC booking engine recently. It is also possible that if you've placed these tickets in your basket, they have been "held" for you for a couple of hours and you'll need to wait for them to be rereleased.
 

mirodo

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Got to do a long multi-leg trip from Aviemore to Plymouth next Friday.

I have already booked the leg from PAD-PLY, 16:33 departure, as this was pre-arranged for some time. FGW First Advance Single.

Options from Aviemore are the 08:29 - 15:53 to KGX. £69.50
Or the earlier 07:25 - 14:53, which unfortunately just doubled to £138 during the booking process.

Is 39 mins an acceptable time to transfer between Kings Cross and Paddington? TFL JP ways 15 mins

If I miss my 16:33, it looks like it's £50 for a replacement single on the 17:03, which seems like a reasonable risk.

Assuming there's no 'joined up delay repay' if my Aviemore train is delayed?

[Oh wow, scrub all that, all the prices just rocketed while I wrote this! Now £222 for the 07:25 and £104 for the 08:29. Be cheaper flying! Now confused. £66 price still available on EastCoast.co.uk, but NationalRail.co.uk says otherwise. My head hurts.]

On the eastcoast website, you can currently book:

0725 Aviemore - Haymarket @ £20.40
1017 Haymarket - Kings Cross @ £57.50

A tenner more expensive than booking the 0829 as one journey, but will give you more wriggle room in transiting from KGX to PAD
 

yorkie

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Got to do a long multi-leg trip from Aviemore to Plymouth next Friday.

I have already booked the leg from PAD-PLY, 16:33 departure, as this was pre-arranged for some time. FGW First Advance Single.

Options from Aviemore are the 08:29 - 15:53 to KGX. £69.50
Or the earlier 07:25 - 14:53, which unfortunately just doubled to £138 during the booking process.
It could be the last ticket at that price. Someone may have just put it in their basket.
Is 39 mins an acceptable time to transfer between Kings Cross and Paddington? TFL JP ways 15 mins
It is not a valid interchange time, as defined in the National Rail timetable. The minimum connection time is 45 minutes.
If I miss my 16:33, it looks like it's £50 for a replacement single on the 17:03, which seems like a reasonable risk.
That's up to you whether you wish to take that risk. I personally would allow more time to eliminate the risk.
Assuming there's no 'joined up delay repay' if my Aviemore train is delayed?
No, you cannot claim this as one journey, because it does not meet the minimum interchange time.
[Oh wow, scrub all that, all the prices just rocketed while I wrote this! Now £222 for the 07:25 and £104 for the 08:29. Be cheaper flying! Now confused. £66 price still available on EastCoast.co.uk, but NationalRail.co.uk says otherwise. My head hurts.]
Is there any chance you've put the tickets in your basket, and then looked again? If the last tickets are available this can happen.
 

Skymonster

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Is 39 mins an acceptable time to transfer between Kings Cross and Paddington? TFL JP ways 15 mins

I do that transfer fairly regularly... 39 minutes is definitely achievable, but whether its acceptable is a different matter and there isn't much wriggle room if things go wrong. Your arival in the KGX would need to be ontime or very close to time, you'd not really be wanting to queue for a tube ticket for long (use Oyster?), and then you'll need to get a Hammersmith and City and Circle line train which will drop you on the H&C platforms that run parallel to the PAD mainline platforms.

Put it this way - I've done KGX (well, St Pancras actually, but it's the same tube stations and arguably further to walk to the tube from the EMT platfoms at STP) via the tube and got on a FGW train to RDG out of PAD within 30 minutes... At least the tube shouldn't be too busy at that time of day. BUT, if I was on an advance and didn't want to risk having to buy a new ticket I'd feel more comfortable with an hour, or at least the 45 minutes minimum connection time

Andy
 

ainsworth74

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It's definitely doable in that time (I've done Kings Cross - Paddington several times in less than half an hour) but on advances I wouldn't risk and would allow the minimum 45 minute connection time to ensure coverage in the event of delays.
 

NSE

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I arrived into Paddington at 17:15 and made the 17:40 off Kings Cross. 39 minutes is fine to make that journey, however you'll negotiate two junctions on the tube, and you may have to wait 2/3 minutes at each or at Edgware Road for a train off the opposing branch to arrive, or let a Metropolitan line train go at Kings Cross, so while it should be ok, you wont have too much time to play with should something go wrong.
 

SprinterMan

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I have done LST-PAD in 49 minutes before, which was very hectic, so I think you would just be ok, but it would be cutting it fine.

Adam :D
 

Deerfold

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I have done LST-PAD in 49 minutes before, which was very hectic, so I think you would just be ok, but it would be cutting it fine.

Adam :D

With a journey from Aviemore to KGX, I'd say that's more than cutting it a bit fine. That's plenty of route for something to go wrong.
 

calc7

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I am not sure what is the best bet Tube wise these days, now that the Circle line does not go a full circle, maybe one way?
From Kings Cross if you catch a more regular Hammersmith train you finish up having a longish walk at PAD, especially now barriers are everywhere.
It is possible to change trains at Edgware Road and enter Paddington in the main concourse, but this may be slower although if carrying a case or similar,although I do not think you have to climb the stairs at Edgware Rd.
I am not a regular around there so if any board memebr needs to correct me or add any further info, feel most welcome.

Remember that the Circle line goes twice to Paddington - on one count to the District line platforms on the Circle proper, and once to the H&C line platforms on from the other line at Edgware Road.

As a result, Kings Cross to Paddington is no worse than before, and arguably better as all trains go to the H&C platforms which are convenient for getting to the trains (check NRE for departure platform so you can go straight down from the gantry)!
 

route:oxford

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It's always a really tough one.

For every time that I've disembarked from the Highland Chieftan and arrived on the concourse at Paddington 20 minutes later, there's an equivalent journey that has taken an hour and I've wished that I've walked instead.
 

LE Greys

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It's always a really tough one.

For every time that I've disembarked from the Highland Chieftan and arrived on the concourse at Paddington 20 minutes later, there's an equivalent journey that has taken an hour and I've wished that I've walked instead.

Same here. It partly depends on the time of day, crowding, whether you're good at climbing stairs and plain old luck. Yorkie's right, it's best to play it safe.
 

NSE

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I agree with advance tickets to play it safe. I do find it funny though how much time they add on though on the journey planners for the tube. I walked from Euston to Victoria in just about five minutes over the time it was gonna take me on the tube.
 

bb21

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During the main parts of the day, H&C and Circle heading for Hammersmith are every 5 minutes combined. Circle and District going via High St Ken are also every 5 minutes combined from Edgware Road.
 

Optimo

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Thanks all, I took the advice of getting the ealier train to give some more breathing space on the PAD-PLY leg.

Went for this option:
On the eastcoast website, you can currently book:

0725 Aviemore - Haymarket @ £20.40
1017 Haymarket - Kings Cross @ £57.50

A tenner more expensive than booking the 0829 as one journey, but will give you more wriggle room in transiting from KGX to PAD

The tickets I purchased are Advance & EC Advance.

I'm only slightly concerned now that I've got a split fare that if the Aviemore-Haymarket leg is delayed, and I miss the Haymarket-London train, that I'll have to purchase a full price single on a later London-bound train. Would I be liable now I haven't left the minimum '45 mins' transfer time (even though I'm just transferring across platforms), or would I likely be able to ask a conductor if I could travel on a later London-bound train due to my incoming delay? Would a fee apply in those circumstances?

The ticket type is: EC Advance Valid on chosen train only. Non refundable. Changeable for a fee before departure

One final fares question though - the Aviemore-Kings Cross fare was £138 as an 'Off Peak' ticket. But I was able to buy individual Advance tickets for a total of £77.90 for the 'split' journey on the same trains and same route. There are obviously 'Advance' tickets available for my entire journey - why could the booking system not show me them? Would I been offered this cheaper alternative if I'd booked at a mainline station?


Thanks for all the advice, another happy forum member.
 

LexyBoy

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I'm only slightly concerned now that I've got a split fare that if the Aviemore-Haymarket leg is delayed, and I miss the Haymarket-London train, that I'll have to purchase a full price single on a later London-bound train. Would I be liable now I haven't left the minimum '45 mins' transfer time (even though I'm just transferring across platforms), or would I likely be able to ask a conductor if I could travel on a later London-bound train due to my incoming delay? Would a fee apply in those circumstances?

You may use a combination of tickets (including Advance tickets) to make a single journey (NRCoC 19). If you are delayed on your journey then you will be taken on the next available service - this applies even if you are on Advance tickets, provided that you have left the minimum connection time. The minimum connection time at Haymarket is 5 minutes; the 45 minutes is the minimum time for connection between Kings Cross and Paddington.

If you do have to take a later train, you're still restricted to the operator named on the ticket - EC in this case (and FGW for the final leg) - so "the next train" is not necessarily the next train - you couldn't board a Virgin service if that were the next London-bound train for example.


One final fares question though - the Aviemore-Kings Cross fare was £138 as an 'Off Peak' ticket. But I was able to buy individual Advance tickets for a total of £77.90 for the 'split' journey on the same trains and same route. There are obviously 'Advance' tickets available for my entire journey - why could the booking system not show me them? Would I been offered this cheaper alternative if I'd booked at a mainline station?

It would probably not be allowed for booking sites to offer split tickets, and would be complex to implement in any case.

You would (should) not be offered this combination at a station - it's against impartial retailing rules.
 

Optimo

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Thank you all, my mind is at rest.

[Now looking forward to experimenting on the 'seated sleeper' from London - Aviemore on the way up...]
 
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Got to do a long multi-leg trip from Aviemore to Plymouth next Friday.

I have already booked the leg from PAD-PLY, 16:33 departure, as this was pre-arranged for some time. FGW First Advance Single.

Options from Aviemore are the 08:29 - 15:53 to KGX. £69.50
Or the earlier 07:25 - 14:53, which unfortunately just doubled to £138 during the booking process.

Is 39 mins an acceptable time to transfer between Kings Cross and Paddington? TFL JP ways 15 mins

If I miss my 16:33, it looks like it's £50 for a replacement single on the 17:03, which seems like a reasonable risk.

Assuming there's no 'joined up delay repay' if my Aviemore train is delayed?

[Oh wow, scrub all that, all the prices just rocketed while I wrote this! Now £222 for the 07:25 and £104 for the 08:29. Be cheaper flying! Now confused. £66 price still available on EastCoast.co.uk, but NationalRail.co.uk says otherwise. My head hurts.]

Kings Cross to Paddington in 39 minutes is eminently do-able. Platform to platform time on the Hammersmith and City is 12 minures tops for the five stations. Worst case scenario 8 minutes to get on the platform from the mainline, 8 minutes to get on to the platform at Paddington (get in the second coach from the rear on the tube) and that's still less than 30 minutes in total..
 

Deerfold

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Kings Cross to Paddington in 39 minutes is eminently do-able. Platform to platform time on the Hammersmith and City is 12 minures tops for the five stations. Worst case scenario 8 minutes to get on the platform from the mainline, 8 minutes to get on to the platform at Paddington (get in the second coach from the rear on the tube) and that's still less than 30 minutes in total..

Yes, I think that's been established - it's just doing it after a trip from Aviemore in less than the allowed time is asking for trouble if it invalidates the last ticket of the journey if the incoming train is a little late or there is a problem on the Underground.
 

OwlMan

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Kings Cross to Paddington in 39 minutes is eminently do-able. Platform to platform time on the Hammersmith and City is 12 minures tops for the five stations. Worst case scenario 8 minutes to get on the platform from the mainline, 8 minutes to get on to the platform at Paddington (get in the second coach from the rear on the tube) and that's still less than 30 minutes in total..

The official time is made up of three components:

To change trains at Kings Cross 15 Minutes
LU Kings Cross - Paddington 15 mins (20 minute late & early)
To change trains at Paddington 15 minutes.

Peter
 

Skymonster

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Kings Cross to Paddington in 39 minutes is eminently do-able

If all goes OK, yes... But if the arrival into KGX is late or one or two more snafus happen it'd be tight...

Platform to platform time on the Hammersmith and City is 12 minures tops for the five stations

My experience is those trains sometimes get held at Edgeware Road either for a driver change or waiting a train crossing from the District lines... Sometimes it'd be quicker to change onto the other Circle or District at Edgeware Road and go into the front of Paddington, other times sticking with the H&C would be better... It can be a crap shoot if the train gets held at Edgeware Road and whilst 12 minutes patform to platform is realistic it doesn't always happen like that.

Meantime, add a couple of minutes wait on the H&C and Circle platforms at Kings Cross if the first train or two through happens to be Met line trains...

Worst case scenario 8 minutes to get on the platform from the mainline

As long as you've got a tube ticket already... If not, and the ticket office and / or machines are clogged up with queues, that'd be a little ambitious especially as the H&C and Circle platforms are nearer the St Pancras side than the Kings Cross side...

8 minutes to get on to the platform at Paddington (get in the second coach from the rear on the tube)

Yes, doable... Check the platform monitors close to the tube exit barriers on the bridge over the middle of Paddington (or know in advance from the web or a mobile app) and then just go down onto the correct platform

Andy
 

yorkie

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Meantime, add a couple of minutes wait on the H&C and Circle platforms at Kings Cross if the first train or two through happens to be Met line trains...
If I want to be on the concourse and that happens, I'll take the Met, exit at Baker St around the middle of the train to the Bakerloo (it's not far at all!) which will be fast and frequent to Paddington.

If I want to be straight on the train it's quickest to wait for the H&C/Circle (exit from about the middle of the 2nd coach from the rear, IIRC - if you can be straight up the stairs that's 2 mins saved!)
 

34D

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If you do have to take a later train, you're still restricted to the operator named on the ticket - EC in this case (and FGW for the final leg) - so "the next train" is not necessarily the next train - you couldn't board a Virgin service if that were the next London-bound train for example.

This isn't quite correct. You would be entitled to take any train (with authorisation) in the event of a delay.
 

Optimo

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Thanks for all the advice everybody - it was top quality!

I did take the earlier train as advised as the transfer time on my initial choice was insufficient should there be difficulties. And there were. My train from Haymarket to Kings Cross was 90minutes late. Flooding in Grantham.

Was due in at 14:53 but I didn't disembark until 16:30

I managed the transfer from kgx-pad in approx 19 mins tho. But missed my 16:33 to Plymouth.

I wasn't sure if my ticket would be valid on the 1703 so I spoke to the guard before boarding as I've seen advice to ask permission before just expecting to be able to travel.
She said it was not technically valid, but because I had problems further up the line (and had otherwise left 1hr40m transfer time) she said she would accept it. *She confirmed that I had left enough time etc so thanks for the advice on the transfers.

I believe the later train from Edinburgh would also have been delayed so I'd have been stuffed if i'd not asked the here before travelling.

Many thanks.
 

yorkie

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Glad we were able to help :)

Was the 1703 on time? If so you would only have been 9 minutes later than scheduled at Plymouth!
.
She said it was not technically valid, but because I had problems further up the line (and had otherwise left 1hr40m transfer time) she said she would accept it..
As you left sufficient time, it was valid, she was incorrect to say it wasn't. Sounds like a training issue at FGW. This is the fault of management, not the fault of the guard who showed good customer service by allowing a ticket she (incorrectly) thought was valid on the grounds of common sense. But, really, the guard should be made aware of these rules.
 
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