Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
5,571
Location
UK
Which isn’t a great comparison: different routes and different top speeds for a start.
But don't the EMR sets have different dampers to the GWR sets.
Although I haven't noticed a significant difference between the sets in ride quality
 

Clansman

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2016
Messages
2,083
Sorry to dig up something that's probably been asked, but I've not really read much about the transfer until recently. What are the reasons EMR are replacing their fleet of HSTs with ex-LNER ones? Is it because the LNER ones are in better nick since thier recent refurbishment and have better PRM provisions, as opposed to investing in kitting out EMR's ones which are in relatively original spec?
 

Roast Veg

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2016
Messages
943
Sorry to dig up something that's probably been asked, but I've not really read much about the transfer until recently. What are the reasons EMR are replacing their fleet of HSTs with ex-LNER ones? Is it because the LNER ones are in better nick since thier recent refurbishment and have better PRM provisions, as opposed to investing in kitting out EMR's ones which are in relatively original spec?
It is entirely down to reducing the level of PRM non-compliance.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
1,620
I'm on 1B58 with 43 052 and 43 467. Is it common to have VP185 and MTU power in the same set? I will have to agree with the above post that the mallard interiors are far superior to the IC70 seats. The ride quality of these Mk3s are worse than I've come to expect on GWRs 255 sets.
I think that ride quality varies between sets actually - I was on one yesterday and would say no real issue with ride quality. I didn't note the set concerned.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
1,620
On the 1134 to Nottingham, I have to say I won't miss the EMR carriages, I'd forgotten how uncomfortable I find the IC70 seats , they're far too low backed
Funny - good point, but I'm pretty avg height 5'10" and have never found them uncomfortable in either 1st or standard. Tho the ex LNER sets will be good too comfort wise. I'll miss the original interior seats for nostalgic reasons.
 

43096

Established Member
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
6,859
I think that ride quality varies between sets actually - I was on one yesterday and would say no real issue with ride quality. I didn't note the set concerned.
Time since last C4 overhaul is an obvious reason for varying ride quality.
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
5,557
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
But don't the EMR sets have different dampers to the GWR sets.
Although I haven't noticed a significant difference between the sets in ride quality
They do - the ex East Coast sets have Pegasus Dampers, which are noticeably more bouncier than their counterparts on the Midlands and Western sets. I did a few runs on some of the East Coast sets just before Christmas and noticed how particularly bouncy they were compared to other Mk3s (other fleets) across certain stretches of track (In Scotland EC HST vs ScotRail HST, ECML between Peterborough and Kings X for example).

IIRC, I believe it was an issue David Horne was aware of, I recall something in Modern Railways a few years ago where they (VTEC) were asking where the original dampers could be obtained from.
 
Last edited:

Merle Haggard

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
443
Location
Northampton
Now I know this thread is about the ex LNER HSTs but there seems to be no-where else to post this. The Twitter Feed from EMR above included a reference to the 'Angel' HSTs and stated that they were staying until Dec 2020 - the same date as the ex LNER ones will depart. This is not what's been suggested before; what is happening about the 180s, I wonder.
On the subject of the LNER ones; in the past it has been stated on another thread that not all of the coaches in the set formations used by LNER had control emission toilets and perhaps it was only one in each class. Does anyone know the situation? Does the number of sets available and each set having one coach more than will be required make it possible to re-shuffle the formation so that all the CEM coaches were combine to make all-CEM sets?
 

43055

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
843
Now I know this thread is about the ex LNER HSTs but there seems to be no-where else to post this. The Twitter Feed from EMR above included a reference to the 'Angel' HSTs and stated that they were staying until Dec 2020 - the same date as the ex LNER ones will depart. This is not what's been suggested before; what is happening about the 180s, I wonder.
On the subject of the LNER ones; in the past it has been stated on another thread that not all of the coaches in the set formations used by LNER had control emission toilets and perhaps it was only one in each class. Does anyone know the situation? Does the number of sets available and each set having one coach more than will be required make it possible to re-shuffle the formation so that all the CEM coaches were combine to make all-CEM sets?
The 180's will still be needed for the post December timetable until the new units enter service. Probably find some training runs will happen before December.
 

43096

Established Member
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
6,859
Now I know this thread is about the ex LNER HSTs but there seems to be no-where else to post this. The Twitter Feed from EMR above included a reference to the 'Angel' HSTs and stated that they were staying until Dec 2020 - the same date as the ex LNER ones will depart. This is not what's been suggested before; what is happening about the 180s, I wonder.
On the subject of the LNER ones; in the past it has been stated on another thread that not all of the coaches in the set formations used by LNER had control emission toilets and perhaps it was only one in each class. Does anyone know the situation? Does the number of sets available and each set having one coach more than will be required make it possible to re-shuffle the formation so that all the CEM coaches were combine to make all-CEM sets?
As far as I know the ex-LNER sets don’t have CET. It is purely about them being less non-compliant for PRM than the current sets.
 

Merle Haggard

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
443
Location
Northampton
As far as I know the ex-LNER sets don’t have CET. It is purely about them being less non-compliant for PRM than the current sets.
It seems a little odd to me that, although there's been quite a bit of publicity about track discharge, it's very difficult to find out which stock still does it. Even the enthusiasts' stock lists (such as Platform 5) aren't exhaustive and I've been reduced to relying on the 'do not use in stations' notices as the only sure way. I'm also surprised that the LNER sets weren't CEM'd at refurb. whereas the XC ones, only slightly more recently done, were. Another obligation that the TOCs/leasing companies didn't see coming, maybe.
 

Merle Haggard

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
443
Location
Northampton
The 180's will still be needed for the post December timetable until the new units enter service. Probably find some training runs will happen before December.
Thanks for the information. The first 2 180s released were moved to EP some time ago. As it turned out this was possibly more for accommodation reasons than any urgency to get them into traffic to replace the ex GC sets for May timetable changes, and I'd actually assumed the latter reason which is now clearly not so. The present NL only have derog. 'til May (up-thread) but presumably the GC ones are more like the LNER ones, a little nearer PRM, so have the December extension.
One of the oddities about the ex GC sets is that, every time I travel on one (every month or so) the formation seems to have changed from the previous one, whereas the NL sets seemed to be very fixed. Maybe this is just to equalise the mileages as the two diagrams are very different in mileage and there is almost a complete set of spare coaches, too.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
1,620
Thanks for the information. The first 2 180s released were moved to EP some time ago. As it turned out this was possibly more for accommodation reasons than any urgency to get them into traffic to replace the ex GC sets for May timetable changes, and I'd actually assumed the latter reason which is now clearly not so. The present NL only have derog. 'til May (up-thread) but presumably the GC ones are more like the LNER ones, a little nearer PRM, so have the December extension.
One of the oddities about the ex GC sets is that, every time I travel on one (every month or so) the formation seems to have changed from the previous one, whereas the NL sets seemed to be very fixed. Maybe this is just to equalise the mileages as the two diagrams are very different in mileage and there is almost a complete set of spare coaches, too.
Good question you posed earlier. Having been on Angel set yesterday I can't see what extra PRM compliance it would have had - eg no info screens for example.
 

91108

Member
Joined
2 Oct 2019
Messages
23
Location
Europe
Good question you posed earlier. Having been on Angel set yesterday I can't see what extra PRM compliance it would have had - eg no info screens for example.
The current EMR HST’s have seats with fixed armrests. The LNER ones have seats with fold up armrests. I believe that is the thing that makes them more PRM compliant.
 

nat67

On Moderation
Joined
23 Apr 2014
Messages
1,393
Location
Warwickshire
The current EMR HST’s have seats with fixed armrests. The LNER ones have seats with fold up armrests. I believe that is the thing that makes them more PRM compliant.
And standard class disabled toilet, along with improved passenger announcements.
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
5,391
Location
Nottingham
The current EMR HST’s have seats with fixed armrests. The LNER ones have seats with fold up armrests. I believe that is the thing that makes them more PRM compliant.
The only armrest related non-compliance is the fixed armrest in the priority seat. There's many more things that make the LNER sets more compliant than just that...
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
3,319
Funny - good point, but I'm pretty avg height 5'10" and have never found them uncomfortable in either 1st or standard. Tho the ex LNER sets will be good too comfort wise. I'll miss the original interior seats for nostalgic reasons.
Not having been on EMT/EMR HSTs for a long time - if I use the MML it's usually on a 222 - I was surprised at how relatively original their fittings looked inside

I was surprised by the difference in legroom between my service out of STP (1D28 on Tuesday) and the return journey (1B79) on Wednesday, as the latter had masses more legroom, and I was in a normal airline seat on both journeys. Are there differences within the existing EMR fleet?
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
5,391
Location
Nottingham
I was surprised by the difference in legroom between my service out of STP (1D28 on Tuesday) and the return journey (1B79) on Wednesday, as the latter had masses more legroom, and I was in a normal airline seat on both journeys. Are there differences within the existing EMR fleet?
1B79 is operated by one of the ex-GC HSTs, which do have a different layout, including some declassified first class vehicles
 

Merle Haggard

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
443
Location
Northampton
Can I still be puzzled? ('The more I find out, the less I know' - not just a pop song but philosophy!)
With the low cost of digital photos, I now take a lot - perhaps making up for steam days, when I regret taking so few because of cost.
Anyway, here's some interiors of the ex GC sets.

First, a TRFB. It's ex Great Western, and undoubtedly has lift up armrests but of course no lavatory.

GC set TRFB.jpg

Next, the TFO, re-trimmed but otherwise in GC condition (they were converted from loco-hauled). I can't be certain, but those armrests don't look like they lift up - looks like they would jam in the seat side if they did.

GC set TFO.jpg

And here's the lavatory in the TFO.

GC set - TFO lav.jpg

I can't see that there much more PRM - y than the EMR home sets, to be honest, and certainly less so than the LNER sets. Sorry I haven't got any Standard photos but, to avoid any debate, I never take interior photos where an identifiable person would be included.
 

Top