Transfer of TPE 350/4s to West Midlands Trains (LNR)

[37057]

Can 350s shunt on batteries, or would this be using a locomotive, in which case what is the power for?

Use of a shunt loco with the batteries on and also in restrictive drive to allow brake release and control should something go wrong with the coupler on the shunter! Theres no translator so just use two people, one in the unit and one in the loco.

If it's a very short move in the shed without power we just push them by hand!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow...you wouldnt have thought pushing a 350 by hand would be that easy!

 

[37057]

Wow...you wouldnt have thought pushing a 350 by hand would be that easy!

Handy for semi-permanent coupler overhaul!

The bar gets the wheels turning then it takes a small gang of people to keep it moving.

 

[Silverlinky]

Can 350s shunt on batteries, or would this be using a locomotive, in which case what is the power for?

No, i'd think not.....the brakes won't come off unless there is enough air in the unit, and the air comes from the main compressor when the pan is up.

Batteries power the auxiliary compressor which runs until enough air builds up to raise the pantograph, and the batteries would provide lighting on the unit in times of isolation/failure, roughly 60 minutes worth.

 

[Silverlinky]

To dispose of a 350 (as traincrew) in an OHLE isolation we pan down and battery off, no messing in cupboards and tripping of 32f10.

Does help if you get told there's an isolation though! Thats the case sometimes, units are not panned down and the power to the overheads is switched off.
Diagrams should say PAN DOWN in those cases, otherwise disposal just means shutting the doors and securing the cab.

 

[driver9000]

Does help if you get told there's an isolation though! Thats the case sometimes, units are not panned down and the power to the overheads is switched off.
Diagrams should say PAN DOWN in those cases, otherwise disposal just means shutting the doors and securing the cab.

That would depend on the operator and how they use terms. For my TOC Disposal is pantograph down and Batteries off but no requirement to trip the F10/F11 MCBs. Shutting the doors and securing the cab is Berth for us.

 

[Silverlinky]

That would depend on the operator and how they use terms. For my TOC Disposal is pantograph down and Batteries off but no requirement to trip the F10/F11 MCBs. Shutting the doors and securing the cab is Berth for us.

For the LNW end of WMT seeing "DISP" on the end of a diagram just means dispose of, ie shut down the cab, and close the door when you leave!
The diagrams have to say "PAN DOWN" or else the pans won't get dropped

As for tripping the 32F10/F11...this is only done when clearing faults, ie carrying out a reset, never part of a Drivers prep or disposal in any circumstances.

 

[boxerdog]

Does help if you get told there's an isolation though! Thats the case sometimes, units are not panned down and the power to the overheads is switched off.
Diagrams should say PAN DOWN in those cases, otherwise disposal just means shutting the doors and securing the cab.

Our diagrams say DISP. We then check with the signaller if an isolation is occuring, if so and in addition to securing the unit you pan down and battery off and that's it, as the unit fully powers down after *90 minutes (by that time I'm fast asleep) *so I was taught, never checked though.

 

[37057]

Tripping those MCBs are standard practice for myself but as I'm maintenance side, isolating the Pan/VCB air supply and throwing the earth switch at the same time becomes one standard action!

 

[kc_]

408 is now in LNWR livery too.

 

[NorthWestFan17]

Saw it on youtube. Only 409 left to go it looks like

 

[kc_]

Saw it on youtube. Only 409 left to go it looks like

Not heard about or seen 402 recently, is that in LNWR?

 

[59CosG95]

Not heard about or seen 402 recently, is that in LNWR?

Yes, it was seen on Flickr having received the new livery, taken by a member of railway staff using Flickr in an 'on-shed' scenario. https://flic.kr/p/2ijixfE

It has since come out to play again: https://flic.kr/p/2ijR2UN

 

[Silverlinky]

So LNW have experienced coupler issues with the units they've already got, and there are pics on here of 402 and 406, both still with TPE, with non-multi cards in the cab windows.

 

[37057]

So LNW have experienced coupler issues with the units they've already got, and there are pics on here of 402 and 406, both still with TPE, with non-multi cards in the cab windows.

Coupler faults happen and sometimes they can be difficult to resolve for a number of reasons. You need to find out what happened when it failed, actually diagnose the issue, hopefully fix it (subject to parts being in stock) and test it (another unit on depot which isn't powered down for exam). Also you need time to do all of that... 350s are very on demand and if they have to go out non-multi, they do.

Also, 406 isn't non-multi.

 

[Silverlinky]

Coupler faults happen and sometimes they can be difficult to resolve for a number of reasons. You need to find out what happened when it failed, actually diagnose the issue, hopefully fix it (subject to parts being in stock) and test it (another unit on depot which isn't powered down for exam). Also you need time to do all of that... 350s are very on demand and if they have to go out non-multi, they do.

Also, 406 isn't non-multi.

406 was at some point recently as there was a photo of it on here.
LNW have 81 units now and it’s extremely rare to have even one non-multi. So rare that we don’t even have cards for the cab windows! As the vast majority of services are 8 and 12 cars it just wouldn’t work.
My point was that the mark 4’s inherited already by LNW have presented a number of coupler issues which are not prevalent on the units (1’s, 2’s and 3’s) they already have.
Got to be more than coincidence.

 

[Kite159]

I guess the non-multi unit will end up on Walsall - Wolverhampton stoppers until it gets fixed (assuming those units are still captive)

 

[59CosG95]

Sometimes I get confused by reality....

At Preston today, 350408 was heading for Edinburgh in full LNWER livery

That'll add up; all the 350/4s still with TPE (except 350409) are now in LNWR livery.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Pressed the wrong button
As I was saying, sometimes I get confused by reality

At Preston, 350408 was heading for Edinburgh in LNwR livery -




and, on my return to Northampton, there was a a new TPE train



I also managed a short trip on 350401 in a packed day. The first class seems to be indistinguishable from a refurbed 350/1 except that it has twin-leaf doors at both end of the compartment. there are 8 standard seats (4 each side, obvs!) between the first compartment bulkhead and the doors at one end. Too many passengers to provide photos, though.

 

[37057]

That'll add up; all the 350/4s still with TPE (except 350409) are now in LNWR livery.

That one is being rebranded now, so that's it for TPE branded 350s.

 

[37057]

406 was at some point recently as there was a photo of it on here.
LNW have 81 units now and it’s extremely rare to have even one non-multi. So rare that we don’t even have cards for the cab windows! As the vast majority of services are 8 and 12 cars it just wouldn’t work.
My point was that the mark 4’s inherited already by LNW have presented a number of coupler issues which are not prevalent on the units (1’s, 2’s and 3’s) they already have.
Got to be more than coincidence.

It could be that there is a higher priority for repairing them when they fault down there, to allow them to continue with these diagrams. The electrics are generally more reliable than the diesel fleets so they may be better supported. For example, an engine fault may take pit space priority over a coupler fault, where as a traction fault on a 350 is very rare. Only one electrified pit road at Ardwick too.

Units can be kept off diagrams that require them to be coupled by control. I recall a period when non-multi labels were not used up here too.

Non-multi's aren't always coupler component faults either, it can be a fault when coupled if that makes sense, like a UDB problem.

In the case of 402 there are/were two issues, one is solved but time ran out to sort the other!

 

[Silverlinky]

It could be that there is a higher priority for repairing them when they fault down there, to allow them to continue with these diagrams. The electrics are generally more reliable than the diesel fleets so they may be better supported. For example, an engine fault may take pit space priority over a coupler fault, where as a traction fault on a 350 is very rare. Only one electrified pit road at Ardwick too.

Units can be kept off diagrams that require them to be coupled by control. I recall a period when non-multi labels were not used up here too.

Non-multi's aren't always coupler component faults either, it can be a fault when coupled if that makes sense, like a UDB problem.

In the case of 402 there are/were two issues, one is solved but time ran out to sort the other!

371 down here was multi only for a long time (6 months+) due to intermittent power problems, it ended up not being reliable enough to send it out on its own. Diagramming it never to end up by itself was very difficult I’m told.
Recently repaired though....
You’ve got a point on the ‘shortage’ of maintenance facilities though...don’t have that problem down here. Just a lack of room for all the units now!
kings Heath was built when we had just the 30 Mk 1 units, in a couple of months time they’ll be looking after 87 of them, as well as 15 319’s and having the occasional 323 in for tyre turning.

 

[Merle Haggard]

A very trivial point about the 350/4s receiving re-branding at TPE - probably in the category of 'things I didn't know I didn't mind not knowing' but can you spot the error? (350402 at Preston)





The answer is this. I thought that I would be able to spot a 350/4 from a distance because, unlike the rest of the 350s, the first class occupies the full length between the doors and the yellow stripe would reflect this. Presumably, WM just sent TPE the standard vinyls.
It's a contrast that TPE, with cancellations sometimes ascribed to stock shortages, can manage to apply full vinyls (presumably during exams, to be fair) but down south we still have a great deal of anonymity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A very trivial point about the 350/4s receiving re-branding at TPE - probably in the category of 'things I didn't know I didn't mind not knowing' but can you spot the error? (350402 at Preston)


View attachment 73829


The answer is this. I thought that I would be able to spot a 350/4 from a distance because, unlike the rest of the 350s, the first class occupies the full length between the doors and the yellow stripe would reflect this. Presumably, WM just sent TPE the standard vinyls.
It's a contrast that TPE, with cancellations sometimes ascribed to stock shortages, can manage to apply full vinyls (presumably during exams, to be fair) but down south we still have a great deal of anonymity.

I did notice that at Lancaster the other day, and the reason for it is that post-refurb the First Class will be reduced to the area demarcated by the yellow line. (It's being downgraded to 2+2 as well, not sure where the seats are coming from, though, as I'm not sure the originals are made any more).

They will, once refurbed, have the same layout as the /3s.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I did notice that at Lancaster the other day, and the reason for it is that post-refurb the First Class will be reduced to the area demarcated by the yellow line. (It's being downgraded to 2+2 as well, not sure where the seats are coming from, though, as I'm not sure the originals are made any more).

They will, once refurbed, have the same layout as the /3s.

But in the meantime if you're travelling first class on LNwR and you're very, very lucky you get this;




Luxury!!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's a shame they didn't keep that layout for the Trent Valley. It would be well worth the extra.

 

[swt_passenger]

I did notice that at Lancaster the other day, and the reason for it is that post-refurb the First Class will be reduced to the area demarcated by the yellow line. (It's being downgraded to 2+2 as well, not sure where the seats are coming from, though, as I'm not sure the originals are made any more).

They will, once refurbed, have the same layout as the /3s.

Shouldn’t there be spare 2+2 first class from the 450s? Removing 8 x 127 should allow a few in good condition to be found...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Shouldn’t there be spare 2+2 first class from the 450s? Removing 8 x 127 should allow a few in good condition to be found...

Ah yes, good point, maybe it will be from there.

 

[kc_]

406 was at some point recently as there was a photo of it on here.
LNW have 81 units now and it’s extremely rare to have even one non-multi. So rare that we don’t even have cards for the cab windows! As the vast majority of services are 8 and 12 cars it just wouldn’t work.
My point was that the mark 4’s inherited already by LNW have presented a number of coupler issues which are not prevalent on the units (1’s, 2’s and 3’s) they already have.
Got to be more than coincidence.

1M90 this morning was 402 coupled with 406, at least from Preston. I didn't see a non-multi card in the window of coach A of 402, and coach D obviously had a working coupler, so it appears the non-multi fault has been repaired.

 

[37057]

1M90 this morning was 402 coupled with 406, at least from Preston. I didn't see a non-multi card in the window of coach A of 402, and coach D obviously had a working coupler, so it appears the non-multi fault has been repaired.

It has indeed. I may have posted previously that it had two faults too, so wasn't so straight forward.