Transpennine Express December 2019 Proposals

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Paul Duck, 17 Jun 2019.

  1. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Ok fair enough.

    I am a simple creature with that.

    Operator A has 10 trains (let’s say they are class 185s). The order new trains and terminate the lease on 1st Jan 2020 on the old stock.

    Operator B takes on the 10 trains on 2nd January 2020 with a view of starting service in May.

    If operator As replacements are late - why should operator b suffer. (Unless of course TPE fully compensate them for loss of income) But looks like we are on the same page here.

    This whole situation with TPE was predicated 2 years ago. Based on the simple question when was the last time a new design worked out the box with any gremlins.
     
  2. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

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    I doubt LNWR are going to have serious issues if the 350/4s turn up a month later than planned.
     
  3. quantinghome

    quantinghome Member

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    This seems to be a counsel of despair, and it's also wrong. There are many instances of failing TOCs being replaced by more competent operators who have restored the service to reasonable levels of reliability.
     
  4. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Yep. Stagecoach when they replaced national express in East Midlands. Operator of last resort when they replaced National express on east coast. First group when they replaced national express on ScotRail to name 3. Arriva on northern were actually very good first time around as well.
     
  5. Johnny Lewis

    Johnny Lewis Member

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    Yesterday, out of the 38 planned departures from Liverpool Lime Street (including services to/via Preston), 22 were either cancelled altogether, or started from a point later in the journey. It looks as if there will be the same number of cancellations today.
     
  6. TrainTube

    TrainTube Member

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    I'm taking about the leasing of 350s, not 185s.
     
  7. ajdunlop

    ajdunlop Member

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    If I have understood things, the problem is training staff on the new trains. They have gone ahead with the new timetable assuming the new trains in service but pre cancelled a number of services for a month while they catch up with the training. Annoying but fair enough.
    Staff shortages in general have lead to loads of additional cancellations taking the service to crisis point. So why don’t they just slow down training on the new trains so that the only ones cancelled are the ones they pre announced and do that for a bit longer?
    We have been putting up with overcrowded trains for years so dealing with not having longer trains for a few weeks longer in exchange for having trains that are actually running at all would seem to me a no brainier.
     
  8. geoffk

    geoffk Established Member

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    Yet they went ahead with the extension to Edinburgh, which could have waited until May. Presumably taking revenue off LNER is seen as more important than serving their core route.
     
  9. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    Haven't we done that issue to death?
     
  10. Ben Bow

    Ben Bow Member

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    48 full cancellations and 4 part cancellations showing so far on JourneyCheck, and its only 05:30, along with a message about "Significant Disruption":

    https://www.journeycheck.com/tpexpress/
     
  11. palmersears

    palmersears Established Member

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    Between this, Northern continually cancelling the CLC airport services, and the long standing unreliability of the EMR sevice, I've seen my choices to get back to Manchester of an evening severely limited this week. Looking forward to a couple of weeks off from it all to be honest.
     
  12. Kieran1990

    Kieran1990 Member

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    Not a single TPE service between Leeds and York between 7:45 and 9am today.. appalling
     
  13. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    It's started to become mentally draining to commute. You wake up and worry about what the journey will hold.
     
  14. scarby

    scarby Member

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    Aren't there any penalties for failure to run services according to the franchise agreement? If not, what's the use of having the agreement in the first place?
     
  15. td97

    td97 Member

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    No TPEs Liverpool-Manchester after 0551 until 1054. 5 hours. The Northern stopper left bang on time at 0754, with an astounding run arriving 5 minutes early.

    Likewise no TPEs Manchester - Liverpool after 0553 until 1003.

    Northern's CLC service has had a very good morning, with issues only on 2 stopping diagrams. No ticket acceptance for TPE customers though!
     
  16. SuperNova

    SuperNova Member

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    Operator B are receiving a fair wad of cash from Operator A. Train Manufacturer A will be financially penalised, hopefully significantly so by Operator A and ROSCO's A and B for failing to deliver an adequate product on time as per their contract.
     
  17. nedchester

    nedchester Member

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    Just looked at TPE's Journey check - 38 cancellations. Disgraceful.
     
  18. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Operation B should not be impacted by operator A poor procurement choices. Operator B should get the stock as per contract. Operator A should be up the creek without a paddle as the made the choices in the first place.
     
  19. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    All users know is that they, passengers X, Y and Z, aren't able to get to their destinations when the combined operators of trains are unable to get their acts together. 41 TPE services showing as cancelled when I looked early this morning.

    It matters not to most that the rolllng stock is a 142, 153, 185, 195, 331, or 999. They may not be bothered if it's brand new or 40 years old. They don't want to know the points have jammed, the signals have failed, the wires are down, the preceding train has broken down, or there's no driver/guard - or even that a dam might burst.

    Passengers want to turn up, catch the train on time and get where they want to be when they expect to be there. They have lives to lve and jobs to perform. Being able to get on the train when it arrives and finding a seat comes next - Maslow's amended theory of rail users needs.

    Nationalisation can't produce more compatible and appropriate rolling stock and adequate infrastructure to run them all. It isn't going to get better any time soon.

    Yes, the new rolling stock and trained crews shoud be in place by summer. They'll still be incompatible so shortages will occur.

    Meanwhile demand, dspite all the mayhem, is increasing. I know, it's a miracle, it's almost beyond belief, but when things settle down we'll have empty trains in one direction and standees in another. That's how mass transport sytems work. But getting them to work to timetable - that will be a miracle
     
  20. 37201xoIM

    37201xoIM Member

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    The short answer is yes: you can specify all of this sort of thing in FAs, and indeed they do. The principal issue is that the franchisor (DfT in this case - they deal with anything in RNP with a "commercial" angle) considers itself unable - or is for political or other reasons unwilling - to enforce FA terms, be they ones like this, ones about rolling stock, or the TSR. See posts above.

    In other words, FAs aren't - other than subsidy / premium lines - really worth the paper they are (rather expensively) written on.
     
  21. scarby

    scarby Member

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    There isn't a 'good post' button - but good post.

    I'm afraid waiting until June or some other unspecified date in the future isn't good enough. This has gone on for far too long already.

    If I go to Scarborough station to catch the 11.34 train, I expect it to be running. I haven't got an hour just to sit around and wait for the next one, and nor have the other passengers.

    If they can't run the timetabled service, then there needs to be an emergency one in place, so we know when we can go and catch a train that actually runs. Participating in an impossible to solve puzzle with totally random cancellations from one day to the next is quite simply a million miles short of what is acceptable.
     
  22. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Has there been any recent statement from the Scarborough Chamber of Commerce on how the lack of reliable TPE rail link to and from Scarborough and beyond can affect their area?
     
    Last edited: 20 Dec 2019
  23. 37201xoIM

    37201xoIM Member

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    All very sensible comments, but at present there is no commercial incentive to run an emergency timetable, nor to focus on the core services before extending the network, as TPE promised northern political leaders they would; nor is there, as stated above, any willingness to enforce contractual provisions.

    Nationalisation would indeed not magic up more trains, crews or compatibility. But it would in the short term enable a shift of focus onto the urgent priorities on the core network, enable senior management to be "brought to heel" or replaced, and change the ethos. In the longer term, it would enable cross-resourcing of staff (e.g. crews sign 195s, 802s, 158s, 185s........) and in the very long term, via coordinated procurement, a move towards greater fleet standardisation / compatibility. Here is not the place to discuss the pros and cons of ownership, I appreciate (there's more I could and would say) but I wanted to flag those points as directly relevant to the failure to deliver an acceptable service in Dec 2019 and before, in the commercial and managerial context.
     
  24. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    If the DfT were to attempt to enforce all the penalty provisions in the TPE franchise agreement, I imagine FirstGroup would find it commercially preferable to cut its losses and "hand back the keys", forfeiting its performance bond. With Northern also reportedly "on the brink", the SoS might well consider this outcome politically highly undesirable. Adapting Oscar Wilde's quote: "To lose one franchisee, Mr Shapps, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness."
     
  25. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    ....allow the RMT to fulfil its dream of "One out, all out" rather than having to deal with a number of TOC and only striking in certain areas....:rolleyes:
     
  26. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    At least he can blame the previous administration ;). I notice he isn’t as hard on GTR now we has the power. All his termination of the franchise talk gone.

    but travelling with TPE sounds like using GTR back in 2018.
     
  27. Grannyjoans

    Grannyjoans Member

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    Demand is increasing because the alternative is Road. Road is worse than ever, and unlike Rail, it is unlikely to get any better in the future.
     
  28. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Just had a look at trains.im. Very depressing.

    Cancellations or very late.

    35%. Overall

    58%. Scotland
    33%. North
    12% South

    What is even worse is when you look at the historical tab. I guess if that was a London based franchise the knives would be out by now.
     
  29. PG

    PG Member

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    So pretty much like any other MP who then gets appointed SoS ;)
     
  30. 86247

    86247 Member

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    just read on the internet that Grant schapps has told TPE it needs improve services and it must start from next week. That's from the Yorkshire coast radio site. don't know how true the statement is though .
     

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