Class 170101
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Not sure what you are getting at. The 01:38 from York has been a Manchester Airport train for a long time.
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Transpennine Express December 2019 Proposals
- Thread starter Paul Duck
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Not sure what you are getting at. The 01:38 from York has been a Manchester Airport train for a long time.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Apologies...my mind was thinking of something totally different, when the Newcastle to Manchester Airport service was changed to a Newcastle to Liverpool Lime Street service, which meant getting to Durham from Manchester Airport needed a change en route in those days.
A glance at the 2007 timetable shows an 02:10 service from Newcastle, timed to be rather slow indeed and not arriving at the Airport until 06:39. The proposed 00:08 arrives at 03:57!
Of course back then the overall service wasn't fantastic from Newcastle, with a first train at 06:14 taking nearly four hours to reach Liverpool via Warrington.
Greybeard33
Established Member
Bolton gains a couple of extra calls, at 0944 to Glasgow and 1605 from Glasgow. Making a total of 4tpd Bolton to Glasgow and 6tpd Glasgow to Bolton.
Edinburgh calls remain 3tpd northbound and 4tpd southbound.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...1/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP
Edinburgh calls remain 3tpd northbound and 4tpd southbound.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...1/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP
NoMorePacers
Established Member
Are the extensions of the Liverpool-Newcastle service to Edinburgh going to be happening at this timetable change?
swt_passenger
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They’re showing in Realtimetrains from the relevant date, which is probably a good sign.
D6700
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The stops are not shown as being advertised - except 1P61, which does have public times.
SHFTraveller
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Thanks for this, is it possible to see if the 05:21 from Sheffield to Cleethorpes is down to stop at Doncaster? If so what time?
Cheers,
Matt
Glenn1969
Established Member
It is. At 0553
SHFTraveller
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Thanks! A new option to get into London earlier and try and miss the tube madness at kings cross. Maybe
YorkshireBear
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Not sure I am a big fan of the new timetable to be honest. Although if it improves reliability I don't care about losing a few minutes.
The hull becoming a stopper at peak times is interesting...
The inclusion of Wakefield Kirkgate, is that utilising an early morning ECS to cover for a Northern unit therefore a mutually agreeable solution or is it the start of testing a market? I sense the former.
The hull becoming a stopper at peak times is interesting...
The inclusion of Wakefield Kirkgate, is that utilising an early morning ECS to cover for a Northern unit therefore a mutually agreeable solution or is it the start of testing a market? I sense the former.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Would I be right in thinking that similarly that TPE has covered the first Northern service on the Barton-on-Humber-Cleethorpes line with a Class 185 unit?
Timetable probably isn't fully uploaded yet. For the time being I'd suggest any gaps be treated with suspicion and liable for being filled in later.
I imagine that’s true. Thanks
My thinking behind the plan to drop the Dewsbury stop from the Hull service and transfer it to to the Newcastle service is probably due to decreasing delays and customer dissatisfaction possibly.
The present Dewsbury stopping Hull service is scheduled to call before the passing express Newcastle service. (RTT shows that the time gap between both services passing/ departing in Dewsbury is only approximately 6 minutes) However minor delays are common and a slightly delayed Hull service often leads to the Hull service becoming deliberately extra delayed to wait in Dewsbury station to allow the Newcastle express service to pass through before it.
This causes problems with passengers from Huddersfield or Manchester for example heading for Leeds who often get on the earlier Hull service thinking it arrives into Leeds first as expected when in reality the Newcastle train most often does. Also, causing the Hull service to be deliberately extra delayed to allow the express Newcastle service to pass through can cause further problems down the line further on from Leeds as scheduled time-points allocated to the Hull service passing through a gap can be significantly missed due to it being held at Dewsbury. Also, holding the Hull service at Dewsbury at platform 2 to allow the Newcastle service through the extra/ overtaking line can also congest Dewsbury station itself from a later Calder Valley route type Northern service calling at Dewsbury if it is severely delayed, which can then go on delaying further trains like knocking down dominos.
Additionally, the Newcastle service which starts at Liverpool and takes the newer or common route through Manchester Victoria tends to be less likely to be delayed by minor delays much in comparison to the alternative Hull service which takes the older traditional route via Manchester Piccadilly and is frequently known to be off schedule even by 2-3 minutes which impacts into decreasing the gap between both Hull and Newcastle services. Calling the Newcastle service at Dewsbury even with minor delays would not cause as much problems as albeit the next service calling at Dewsbury is in 7 minutes, it is the Northern Calder Valley service from Southport joining from near Mirfield, thus not causing direct congestion problems such as long queues on the Huddersfield to Leeds corridor, if you can call it that, and thus likely to reduce the domino effect with a delayed train causing the train directly behind it to be delayed and so on with little manoeuvre for flexible control. In addition, the next service to pass through the corridor at Dewsbury after the Northern service is in 10 minutes time, so plenty of time for manoeuvre even if the Northern service is subject to a minor delay.
Although some may say that a switching a service to avoid a delay here will cause the delay to simply move in the same way to a different spot can be be potentially minimised when you have extra room for manoeuvre by not having a potentially direct blockage in the form of a queues on a single corridor and instead better managing delays from using space from services from alternative corridors/ routes/ paths to help reduce the delays in the main corridors, from services in the main corridor being held delayed at slow speed for instance from a delayed service directly in front of it.
E.g. many services stopping and express or semi-express utilise a narrow 2- track corridor such as at various points between Manchester and Huddersfield and thus if a stopping service is delayed and then running in conflict in front of a scheduled express service can itself build up delays from the stopping train stopping every few minutes at stations and unloading and loading times as well as being ordered to ride at a lowered speed to be safe. This then affects more or less every single train directly behind that train and so on even thought he original delay was from a stopper. In comparison, if you move that stopper service to a time slot where fewer trains behind it are less likely to be inconvenienced, such as services behind it coming from an alternative line or route such as from Sheffield Penistone line for instance, it is less likely to cause a direct delay in the form of queues.
In conclusion, I think this is a good improvement. Apologies for any mistakes.
Killingworth
Established Member
The current 05:11 from Sheffield (ex Crofton) will leave at 05:09, and call additionally at Dore & Totley, arrival in Piccadilly unchanged at 06:03.
The 06:09 from Sheffield (starting Doncaster 05:34) only began stopping at Dore in December 2017 and usually picks up 30-40. It was seen a fortnight ago with passengers sitting on the floor even that early.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Why am I suddenly reminded of a certain novel rail travel mode that was modelled by Jeremy Corbyn some time ago ...
thealm
Member
How comes the service to Middlesbrough has now been extended to Redcar Central?
splashoutradio
Member
The new timetable is due to be released in sections every day, up to and including August 2nd.
That said, in the past few timetable releases, changes and amendments were being made right up to the timetable start date, so time will tell
Staffordian
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In the last few days, 9S18 1824 Liverpool - Edinburgh has appeared on RTT to fill the gap.
Do the following commitments to stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield tell us anything new about TPEs December changes?
http://www.smart-rail.co.uk/?p=1985
http://www.smart-rail.co.uk/?p=1985
markymark2000
On Moderation
-Deleted-Interesting that Chathill gets mentioned in the context of the Edinburgh extensions to ECML services...
...BUT don’t get excited, it’s only going to be the location to change from AC to diesel power.
It's a summary of what is indeed happening in December 2019 and looks accurate to me, from their standpoint of Slaithwaite and Marsden stations.
Yep. Peak time Hull-Man Pic's are all stops Huddersfield to Stalybridge. Means no Northern services in the morning/evening which frees up some capacity on the line. No doubt the local politicians in Hull will have a whinge about this though.
Kieran1990
Member
I’d wager a hefty amount on it being a lack of new rolling stock in service and having stock in the right place for morning start of service
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Currently, how are TPE managing for having an adequate complement of drivers for their services?
trainophile
Established Member
Quick one, probably silly to ask... just booked a trip to Glasgow Central for Sunday December 15th, and it has me getting a TPE from Wigan North Western. I may be totally incorrect but I thought TPE no longer stopped there as Virgin decreed they wanted all the business through there? Has this recently changed or was I wrong in my previous assumption? Can't remember seeing any TPEs when waiting at WGN.
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