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Transpennine Express December 2019 Proposals

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swt_passenger

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Quick one, probably silly to ask... just booked a trip to Glasgow Central for Sunday December 15th, and it has me getting a TPE from Wigan North Western. I may be totally incorrect but I thought TPE no longer stopped there as Virgin decreed they wanted all the business through there? Has this recently changed or was I wrong in my previous assumption? Can't remember seeing any TPEs when waiting at WGN.
Are these the new Liverpool services? The calls will have been approved in the normal manner by NR and/or ORR, it’s many years since Virgin had any form of veto over other TOC’s calls. If they can be pathed by NR then Virgin (or First as it will be) just has to take it on the chin.
 
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trainophile

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Ah, correct - it starts at Lime Street! I didn't think RTT would have details so far ahead but it is on there. Thanks for putting my mind at rest.
 

LittleAH

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Quick one, probably silly to ask... just booked a trip to Glasgow Central for Sunday December 15th, and it has me getting a TPE from Wigan North Western. I may be totally incorrect but I thought TPE no longer stopped there as Virgin decreed they wanted all the business through there? Has this recently changed or was I wrong in my previous assumption? Can't remember seeing any TPEs when waiting at WGN.

They will call at Wigan on their Liverpool - Glasgow services.
 

Bevan Price

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Quick one, probably silly to ask... just booked a trip to Glasgow Central for Sunday December 15th, and it has me getting a TPE from Wigan North Western. I may be totally incorrect but I thought TPE no longer stopped there as Virgin decreed they wanted all the business through there? Has this recently changed or was I wrong in my previous assumption? Can't remember seeing any TPEs when waiting at WGN.

I think the main reason for dropping the Wigan stop on TPE Scotland services was partly in anticipation of them running via Bolton after electrification - and maybe partly due to too many people using them between Manchester & Wigan, on trains that were already overloaded at times without Wigan passengers.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I think the main reason for dropping the Wigan stop on TPE Scotland services was partly in anticipation of them running via Bolton after electrification - and maybe partly due to too many people using them between Manchester & Wigan, on trains that were already overloaded at times without Wigan passengers.

Manchester to Wigan North Western does seem covered these days by the Northern service from Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness, which runs non-stop from Manchester Oxford Road to Wigan North Western.
 

Starmill

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They will call at Wigan on their Liverpool - Glasgow services.
Well, generally. The 1629 Glasgow Central to Liverpool Lime Street runs fast from Preston to Liverpool Lime Street. It's not clear why it doesn't call either at Wigan North Western or at Lea Green. It does call, bizarrely, at Carstairs.
 

HullRailMan

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Yep. Peak time Hull-Man Pic's are all stops Huddersfield to Stalybridge. Means no Northern services in the morning/evening which frees up some capacity on the line. No doubt the local politicians in Hull will have a whinge about this though.
While you will be right about them having a whinge, it seems to have a fair amount of justification. Although it right to say the vast majority of Hull passengers get off at Leeds, it’s not great that the service to Manchester is now slower than 20 years ago. Add in the lack of new rolling stock and it’s easy to see why Hull is seem as TPEs poor relation.
On a practical level, departures from Hull are retimed from December meaning those wanting to arrive in Leeds before 9am now have to set off 30 minutes earlier! Great way to piss off your regular commuters.
 

notlob.divad

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Well, generally. The 1629 Glasgow Central to Liverpool Lime Street runs fast from Preston to Liverpool Lime Street. It's not clear why it doesn't call either at Wigan North Western or at Lea Green. It does call, bizarrely, at Carstairs.

The Edinburgh to Euston, is set to leave Preston just 3 minutes after it. Plus the TPE service is in as pathed for 100mph DMU, not the new CAF EMUs. It maybe that when TPE can guarentee the new EMUs are on the route that the Wigan call could be added in.
 

tbtc

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Well, generally. The 1629 Glasgow Central to Liverpool Lime Street runs fast from Preston to Liverpool Lime Street. It's not clear why it doesn't call either at Wigan North Western or at Lea Green. It does call, bizarrely, at Carstairs.

The Carstairs stop does seem strange, especially as the ScotRail peak extra will still be running from Anderston to Carstairs (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G60309/2019-12-19/detailed).

I could understand it if the TPE stop was to permit the long running peak service from Central Low Level to be diverted to Lanark instead (that would have seemed a reasonable compromise - insert a stop into the new TPE service and use this to give Lanark a peak extra service by diverting the existing peak service to Carstairs)

I could also understand it if the TPE service gave a reasonable connection with a Waverley - Central ScotRail service (i.e. to give an extra journey opportunity for Edinburgh passengers to get down the WCML) but the 15:49 from Waverley gets to Carstairs fifty minutes before the TPE will be departing... there's a big gap between the 16:52 and 18:12 departures from Waverley to Carlisle, so it'd make sense to me if you could run a service just after five from Waverley towards Lanarkshire that stopped at Carstairs for people connecting to Carlisle etc... but the closest would be putting a stop in the 17:12 from Waverley to Central that currently runs through Carstairs non-stop (which is the ex-Penzance XC service, so obviously can't be brought forward to suit a Carstairs connection).

Strange. Maybe just a case of "it can only get a path out of Central at a certain time, but it needs to wait to fit behind something else over Beattock, so we might as well dump a Carstairs stop in it, since the Glasgow departure is too early to permit a through run all the way to England"?
 

NoMorePacers

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While you will be right about them having a whinge, it seems to have a fair amount of justification. Although it right to say the vast majority of Hull passengers get off at Leeds, it’s not great that the service to Manchester is now slower than 20 years ago. Add in the lack of new rolling stock and it’s easy to see why Hull is seem as TPEs poor relation.
On a practical level, departures from Hull are retimed from December meaning those wanting to arrive in Leeds before 9am now have to set off 30 minutes earlier! Great way to piss off your regular commuters.
To be honest I agree. If anything, Hull is the ******* child of the North TPE network and has been for years (really since First started running TPE services about 15 years ago).

I suspect they might've adjusted the timings to spread the loadings of those who take the 07:38 off Hull (to some extent). That service is booked a 6 car, however it's still full and standing between Hull and Leeds so it quite frankly could do with a triple set (although that would make stopping at Howden more of an issue).
 

wellhouse

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I suspect they might've adjusted the timings to spread the loadings of those who take the 07:38 off Hull (to some extent). t

A main driver for retiming Hull services is to allow 3 Peak am and pm services to provide additional stopping services between Huddersfield and Manchester Piccadilly at a 30-minute interval bewteen the regular hourly stoppers. Great for local passengers, but not so good for those to and from Hull.

Hull-Manchester Piccadilly 1 hour 56 mins Off-Peak and 2 Hours 9 mins Peak.
 

MontyP

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To add to this - the etxra Hull-Halifax services start in December, but don’t really add much as they depart 7 mins after the TPE service and take 15 mins longer. So not really any use for Hull-Leeds travellers
 

Kite159

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To add to this - the etxra Hull-Halifax services start in December, but don’t really add much as they depart 7 mins after the TPE service and take 15 mins longer. So not really any use for Hull-Leeds travellers

Maybe Northern will introduce cheaper advance fares or even have "Northern only" fares?
 

Ih8earlies

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Only a few weeks left to go before the new timetable starts and Middlesbrough's are extended to Redcar Central.

Of course route learning Middlesbrough to Redcar still hasn't started yet for York based conductors who work 95% of these trains... so...
 

LittleAH

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While you will be right about them having a whinge, it seems to have a fair amount of justification. Although it right to say the vast majority of Hull passengers get off at Leeds, it’s not great that the service to Manchester is now slower than 20 years ago. Add in the lack of new rolling stock and it’s easy to see why Hull is seem as TPEs poor relation.
On a practical level, departures from Hull are retimed from December meaning those wanting to arrive in Leeds before 9am now have to set off 30 minutes earlier! Great way to piss off your regular commuters.

And they're re-timed for a reason. Paths, longer turnaround in Manchester etc. Similarly, why should people complain about getting new trains? Aren't TPE doubling capacity having spent millions refurbing 185's? 802's are not suitable given they'd never run under wires, given I've travelled to Hull a bit - they only really need more capacity at peak time so Mk 5a's are better suited to the core route up to York.

And most offices are flexi-time in this day and age - seems to me that some people just can't break habits. The railway runs to its own timetable, not the timetable people want it to.
 

Killingworth

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Maybe Northern will introduce cheaper advance fares or even have "Northern only" fares?

That's quite likely if Hope Valley is any guide. We have Northern only fares, albeit on trains that stop all stations and take at least 20 minutes longer end to end than TPE or EMR. On Saturdays Northern can be 1/3 the price of a faster competitor in the same hour.
 

Class 170101

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And most offices are flexi-time in this day and age - seems to me that some people just can't break habits. The railway runs to its own timetable, not the timetable people want it to.

True to a point but railways being businesses need to serve their customers as they want otherwise they wouldn't have anyway.
 

LittleAH

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True to a point but railways being businesses need to serve their customers as they want otherwise they wouldn't have anyway.

In that case, can the station 5 mins away from me that Beeching cut be reopened? Can The Penistone Line be redoubled that there are express services, so I can get to Sheffield in under 45 mins? After all, I am a customer on the railway...
 

Ben Bow

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Only a few weeks left to go before the new timetable starts and Middlesbrough's are extended to Redcar Central.

Of course route learning Middlesbrough to Redcar still hasn't started yet for York based conductors who work 95% of these trains... so...

Expect an announcement any time soon that Redcar is postponed. If you look on the TPE website there are some very attractive fares for the new TPE services from Edinburgh south on the ECML, for example Edinburgh - Huddersfield for £20.10 advance single - they are obviously confident these will run. However, the only fares available from Redcar on the new TPE services are the standard peak/off peak tickets. For example, on Monday 16 December you can buy an advance single from Middlesbrough to Leeds on the 08.20 for £11.20, from Redcar the only fare available on the same train (08.07) is the standard single at £38.30....
 

Killingworth

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Expect an announcement any time soon that Redcar is postponed. If you look on the TPE website there are some very attractive fares for the new TPE services from Edinburgh south on the ECML, for example Edinburgh - Huddersfield for £20.10 advance single - they are obviously confident these will run. However, the only fares available from Redcar on the new TPE services are the standard peak/off peak tickets. For example, on Monday 16 December you can buy an advance single from Middlesbrough to Leeds on the 08.20 for £11.20, from Redcar the only fare available on the same train (08.07) is the standard single at £38.30....

Priorities. They want to gouge out custom from LNER and XC particularly from Edinburgh where the section to Newcastle is long without any passengers. That has to be filled quickly to get established.

The short section Redcar to Middlesbrough hasn't the same commercial rationale where a major reason for operating is to get the unit out of the way at Middlesbrough.

The trains are certainly booked to run and appear in the timetable from 15th December, see; https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/~/media...19/north-tp-15dec2019-to-16-may2020.pdf?la=en
 
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Adam0984

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Not sure if it’s been mentioned already but Wakefield Kirkgate gets added to the TPE route map from the 16th Dec with an 0524 to Man Picc and 2300 return
 

Deerfold

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Not sure if it’s been mentioned already but Wakefield Kirkgate gets added to the TPE route map from the 16th Dec with an 0524 to Man Picc and 2300 return

This is the livening up of the current depot runs to/from Crofton for the first and last local services between Huddersfield and Manchester Piccadilly. The service continuing to Kirkgate will now run an hour earlier than the current ECS is scheduled.
 

wellhouse

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They want to gouge out custom from LNER and XC particularly from Edinburgh where the section to Newcastle is long without any passengers. That has to be filled quickly to get established.

And accordinging to their timetable, TPE will not offer any catering between Edinburgh and Newcastle
 

BeHereNow

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It's mainly about generating revenue by taking more of the ORCATS pie. Not about serving pie. Lolz.
 

LittleAH

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Priorities. They want to gouge out custom from LNER and XC particularly from Edinburgh where the section to Newcastle is long without any passengers. That has to be filled quickly to get established.

The short section Redcar to Middlesbrough hasn't the same commercial rationale where a major reason for operating is to get the unit out of the way at Middlesbrough.

The trains are certainly booked to run and appear in the timetable from 15th December, see; https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/~/media...19/north-tp-15dec2019-to-16-may2020.pdf?la=en

Or their focus is on driver training on 802's as they need to get the 802's in traffic as they are key to the Dec 19 timetable change.

Also doesn't help that Tees Valley Mayor put out a press release saying that TPE were starting hourly services in December, without even confirming it with TPE.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The short section Redcar to Middlesbrough hasn't the same commercial rationale where a major reason for operating is to get the unit out of the way at Middlesbrough.

Why then did TPE even consider formally announcing the route extension to Redcar, when they must have had knowledge that there were operational matters requiring resolution before that could occur?
 

LittleAH

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Why then did TPE even consider formally announcing the route extension to Redcar, when they must have had knowledge that there were operational matters requiring resolution before that could occur?

Again, they didn't. Tees Valley Mayor released a press release saying TPE were doing it without confirming with TPE. Politicians for you.
 
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