Transpennine Express December 2019 Proposals

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Again, they didn't. Tees Valley Mayor released a press release saying TPE were doing it without confirming with TPE. Politicians for you.

If that be the case, can you explain to me why the TPE timetable from 15th December 2019 clearly shows Redcar Central on its printed front cover line diagram and service times to and from Redcar Central on its inside pages. I found this on the TPE website.

 

[Glenn1969]

These trains are clearly intended to operate and indeed are showing on RTT. 5 minutes in front of the existing xx12 Northern Bishop Auckland service on departure from Redcar.

 

[BeHereNow]

Again, they didn't. Tees Valley Mayor released a press release saying TPE were doing it without confirming with TPE. Politicians for you.

Perhaps he made it up. What an odd thing to do.

 

[transmanche]

Also doesn't help that Tees Valley Mayor put out a press release saying that TPE were starting hourly services in December, without even confirming it with TPE.

He's got form for that sort of thing. Such as his announcement claiming that Hitachi was unsuccessful in its bid to build the new fleet of T&W Metro trains - without even confirming it with Nexus.

(I believe he's up for re-election in 2020, and seems keen to keep himself in the limelight by making these 'big political points'.)

 

[darloscott]

If TPE never intended to operate to Redcar why did they apply for it and have been running route learning trips? I'd suggest it's more likely that as ever they're simply not ready on time to start in December...

 

[ainsworth74]

If TPE never intended to operate to Redcar why did they apply for it and have been running route learning trips? I'd suggest it's more likely that as ever they're simply not ready on time to start in December...

Of course TPE intend to run to Redcar. The issue is that they may well not be ready for December. They didn't announce it themselves as they were unsure but the Tees Valley Mayor went ahead and did it anyway.

 

[Darandio]

Expect an announcement any time soon that Redcar is postponed.

Time will show, as always...

Still cannot see an announcement and some training runs have still been taking place.

I expect services possibly will start as scheduled, they just won't ever get here.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My son feels the TPE offer currently being marketed is one they feel safe in offering in the full knowledge that many of the services this offer is available on just will be cancelled, so they will not lose much financially...

 

[Ih8earlies]

Good? News/Bad News.

The Good? News: At least 4 York Conductors have been learning Redcar. (Current theory/Gossip is that they will be taken off their booked jobs to route conduct Middlesbrough to Redcar?)

The Bad News: There was a Failure to agree both of the York based Conductor Links yesterday. No idea how this will effect things, but with a major timetable change it can't be good!

 

[D6700]

https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/media-c...hey-travel-ahead-of-december-timetable-change

"we will be operating a short-term temporary amended timetable for services between Liverpool Lime Street and Edinburgh"

Also see:

https://tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates/december-2019-timetable-changes

Selecting Leeds from the Liverpool to Edinburgh services produces this:

The following services will not run:

Monday to Saturday until 04 January

0630, 0730, 0830, 1030, 1330, 1630 & 1730 to Huddersfield, Manchester Victoria, Newton-le-Willows and Liverpool Lime St

1829 & 2030 to Huddersfield, Manchester Victoria, Newton-le-Willows, Lea Green and Liverpool Lime St

0651, 0951, 1051, 1151, 1351, 1651 & 1951 to York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Morpeth and Edinburgh

2051 to York, Darlington, Durham, and Newcastle

2151 to York, Northallerton, Darlington, Durham, Chester-le-Street and Newcastle

Monday only until 06 January

0046 to York

Monday to Friday until 03 January

2330 to Huddersfield, Manchester Victoria, Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport

Tuesday to Saturday until 04 January

0053 to York

Saturdays only until 04 January

1951 to York, Darlington, Durham, and Newcastle

Sundays until 05 January

1330, 1430 & 1930 to Huddersfield, Manchester Victoria, Newton-le-Willows and Liverpool Lime St

2030 to Huddersfield, Manchester Victoria, Newton-le-Willows, Lea Green and Liverpool Lime St

2330 to Huddersfield, Dewsbury, Manchester Victoria, Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport

0020 to York

1251, 1351, 1652 & 1751 to York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Morpeth and Edinburgh

2243 to York, Thirsk, Northallerton, Darlington, Durham, Chester-le-Street and Newcastle"

 

[Failed Unit]

That is good news. I had a fear they would push ahead with their orcats raid to the expense of the legacy services.

 

[D6700]

That is good news. I had a fear they would push ahead with their orcats raid to the expense of the legacy services.

Or perhaps not - your reply beat me to my edit, which includes details of the cancellations. Apologies if my edit makes your reply not make sense.

 

[ajdunlop]

[deleted]

 

[ajdunlop]

If they have given this information about post timetable change why can’t they do it for until the next timetable?
Also the page on their site is so badly worded. It is a strange mixture of new timetable information and amendments to it. Not obvious that anything has changed unless you happen to dig deeper.

 

[Failed Unit]

Or perhaps not - your reply beat me to my edit, which includes details of the cancellations. Apologies if my edit makes your reply not make sense.

No worries. After May 2018 then haven’t learned much. Personally I would abandon Newcastle- Edinburgh until May and turn around at Newcastle. (Use the paths for crew training if they needed to)

i would love to know what new market this is covering. Huddersfield- Edinburgh flow going to make TPE millions.

 

[_toommm_]

At least TPE have given realistic reasons as to why they can't 100% fulfil the December timetable change and the issues around it. We all know the reasoning, but Joe Public don't, so it's nice that they've been honest with regards due to route and/or traction learning.

 

[Ben Bow]

Still cannot see an announcement and some training runs have still been taking place.

I expect services possibly will start as scheduled, they just won't ever get here.

Well there has been an announcement about Liverpool - Scarborough services. Redcar services - some training has taken place, but nowhere near enough to sustain an hourly service 7 days per week. Currently the option of hiring in freight drivers to route conduct TPE drivers from Middlesbrough is being looked at, but that is very costly. Guards may also require some conducting, again at a high cost if that is bought in. As I said, time will tell.

 

[BHXDMT]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned already but Wakefield Kirkgate gets added to the TPE route map from the 16th Dec with an 0524 to Man Picc and 2300 return

0524 from Wakefield now starts at Huddersfield 0554, 2300 to Wakefield now terminates at Huddersfield at 2343.

 

[Glenn1969]

They do mention the Redcar extension on the press release about what has changed in the new timetable

Looks like a 4 week delay to the start of some of the Edinburgh services which isn't too bad

 

[transmanche]

I had a fear they would push ahead with their orcats raid to the expense of the legacy services.

Being as there are so many issues with TOCs not meeting their franchise obligations, it seems odd to see such an obligation described as 'an ORCATS raid'.

 

[Failed Unit]

Being as there are so many issues with TOCs not meeting their franchise obligations, it seems odd to see such an obligation described as 'an ORCATS raid'.

They chose to put it in, it wasn’t specified by dft. But what market misses out if it is delayed? You can still travel directly on most points it covers with other TOCs. This is not the case if they can’t resource Middlesbrough and Scarborough where you are on a bus.

gtr have a commitment to run 24tph into the Thameslink core. It isn’t happening soon for service resilience so why is the ORCATs raiding service so important to the greater rail network?

 

[TUC]

A main driver for retiming Hull services is to allow 3 Peak am and pm services to provide additional stopping services between Huddersfield and Manchester Piccadilly at a 30-minute interval bewteen the regular hourly stoppers. Great for local passengers, but not so good for those to and from Hull.

Hull-Manchester Piccadilly 1 hour 56 mins Off-Peak and 2 Hours 9 mins Peak.

So Hull passengers get disadvantaged just for the sake of Leeds-Manchester stops. How can that be right?

 

[TUC]

And they're not marked with any warning that they may not run so if they don't their printed timetables are going to be wrong for quite a while!

TPE still has Redcar as one of the announcements on the front page of its website. https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/media-c...hey-travel-ahead-of-december-timetable-change

 

[Killingworth]

TPE still have Redcar as one of the announcements on the front page of its website. https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/media-c...hey-travel-ahead-of-december-timetable-change

Tough luck on those wanting to use services from Newcastle, current and extended.

 

[TUC]

And they're not marked with any warning that they may not run so if they don't their printed timetables are going to be wrong for quite a while!

Althoigh I'm really not sure how many passengers rely on printed timetables these days. I certainly don't.

 

[NoMorePacers]

So Hull passengers get disadvantaged just for the sake of Leeds-Manchester stops. How can that be right?

Yup. Although it's obviously the righteous decision, as it has been delivered directly to our hands from the human omnipotence of TransPennine Express, the lords and saviours of the railway who can do absolutely no wrong. So this decision must not be questioned, lest you commit horrendous sins and are eternally punished by the Train Enthusiast's Church of Holiness.

 

[transmanche]

They chose to put it in, it wasn’t specified by dft.

Regardless of that, it is in. And they have an obligation to run it under the franchise agreement.

If the DfT wanted to 'protect' other franchises from an 'ORCATS raid', they could have refused and prohibited TPE from running between Newcastle and Edinburgh. They didn't.

 

[Failed Unit]

Regardless of that, it is in. And they have an obligation to run it under the franchise agreement.

If the DfT wanted to 'protect' other franchises from an 'ORCATS raid', they could have refused and prohibited TPE from running between Newcastle and Edinburgh. They didn't.

so why is introducing this service so vital when it will cause detriment to the rest of their network? Who is going to care if it isn’t introduced they can reliably resource all services?

They have their priorities wrong. Orcats first. Customers last.

Was an hourly service to Scarborough not a franchise commitment? When was this achieved consistently? That is my point. Introduce new services once you can operate what you have already reliably.

 

[nr758123]

So Hull passengers get disadvantaged just for the sake of Leeds-Manchester stops. How can that be right?

The capacity constraints on the route are well-known, and compromises have had to be made. Had the Transpennine Route Upgrade been completed by now, then there might have been sufficient capacity to run a half-hourly stopper throughout the day without needing to put the peak calls on one of the longer distance trains.

I'm sorry that Hull to Manchester journeys will take a little bit longer at peak times. I'm not sorry that Slaithwaite and Marsden passengers get back the half-hourly peak service which should never have been taken away in the first place.

 

[transmanche]

so why is introducing this service so vital when it will cause detriment to the rest of their network? Who is going to care if it isn’t introduced they can reliably resource all services?

What are all the Scottish-based TPE drivers going to do if they have no work? It was reported earlier in this thread that they were going to operate Edinburgh services as far south as York.