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Transpennine Express decide not to use MK3's on limited services

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pdeaves

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Travelling westbound past Plymouth Laira depot today, I saw 'something odd'. I thought it was a CrossCountry HST, but it wasn't. Fortunately, returning eastbound later I had a second view. A Virgin-liveried mark 3 rake (stripy doors) with an Anglia-liveried vehicle at the west end.

Really? Did I see right? If so, what was it doing there? If not, what was it?

Thanks!
 
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Peter Mugridge

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That's the former Pretendolino set being worked on before it goes to Trans-Pennine now that they've finished with it on the Anglian duties.
 

D1009

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That's the former Pretendolino set being worked on before it goes to Trans-Pennine now that they've finished with it on the Anglian duties.
Not sure it's being worked on at the moment, as far as I know it's been on the siding next to the main line since before Christmas.
 

BMIFlyer

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Hello,

I read with interest in RAIL that 10 Mk3 coaches will be temporarily allocated to TPE during the autumn / winter for timetable improvement changes / fleet strengthening on 185 routes (supposedly up to 12 months of use for the Mk3's).

This was mooted a while ago then it was quietly shelved according to internal sources I spoke to at TPE. It was originally going to be top and tail 68's on the trains but now looks like TPE will do the same as Chiltern and use the DRS owned Mk3 DVT's in push pull mode.

Rail magazine states that the 2 rakes will be at TPE only for a short period, and will have limited use on selected routes (Scarborough was mentioned as one of them and Newcastle the other one).

The primary purpose is to enable TPE drivers to learn to drive loco hauled trains, ready for the Mk5 introduction.

Trains will be formed of 280 standard and 44 first class seats. The work on the coaches before introduction involves converting 2 RFB's and one FO to TSO's.

Due to the conversion costs most likely involved, I do have to ask who gets these vehicles when TPE have finished with them??

EDIT - 30 March

Seems that RAIL have the facts wrong and TPE will indeed continue with the original plan of top and tail class 68's for driver training. NO MK3 DVT's
 
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pemma

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It is mentioned in the TPE franchise agreement but as the carriages haven't transferred and refreshed in the time scale indicated in the franchise agreement it has cast doubt over whether it would be happening.
 

Philip

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Could this also signal an extension of the sub-hire of 185s to Northern to run Blackpool services?
 

pemma

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This is the section in the franchise agreement:

In accordance with its obligations in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1.7 (The Train Fleet) the Franchisee shall enter into a Rolling Stock Lease in relation to ten Mark III coaches using all reasonable endeavours to ensure that all such rolling stock shall be capable of unrestricted passenger carrying service by no later than 1 April 2017.

38.2 By no later than 30 September 2016, the Franchisee shall in relation to the vehicles referred to in paragraph 38.1 overhaul and refurbish them and form them into two sets of coaches each providing 280 standard class seats, 44 first class seats and a standing capacity of an additional 140 passengers. In carrying out such overhaul and refurbishment works the Franchisee shall incur operational expenditure of not less than *****.

38.3 The Franchisee shall ensure that sufficient appropriate locomotives are available to it to enable the two sets of Mark III coaches to be available for unrestricted passenger carrying service by no later than 30 September 2016.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Wish they would make their bloody minds up!

Would be nice if they told us what the flickr was going on...
 

Tim R-T-C

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Well there is no shortage of locomotives, even if the 68s are not available, there must be a plenty of 67s going spare.

How much work is needed to the coaches and are they likely to see a new livery, or continue in their (VT?) colours?
 

68011

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It is mentioned in the TPE franchise agreement but as the carriages haven't transferred and refreshed in the time scale indicated in the franchise agreement it has cast doubt over whether it would be happening.
Wasn't all this based on a new timetable coming into effect either May or December 17 which has been put back by 12 months so there hasn't been an immediate need to get the Mk3's into service?
 
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68011

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Well there is no shortage of locomotives, even if the 68s are not available, there must be a plenty of 67s going spare.

How much work is needed to the coaches and are they likely to see a new livery, or continue in their (VT?) colours?

There will be enough 68s available.
 

TBSchenker

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68027 has been delivered to Carlisle Kingmoor DRS depot in a light blue all over paint scheme, as opposed to the other 68/88 delivered in the usual DRS livery.

Saw it only in passing but it does look remarkably like the light blue of the Transpennine Express logo. Could this be the first 68 to be delivered for the TPE contract?
 

ash39

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Yes I think it's been reported already that that'll be the case. 68016-032 being available for TPE use with most being in TPE livery. Some of the spare locos in the pool may retain DRS livery as 008 & 009 do despite having AAR and working on Chiltern.

The lighter blue is just the base coat that all the 68's have (bar the Chiltern ones). Some DRS ones were delivered to the UK in the same colour with vinyls added at Kingmoor. I suspect 026 & 027 will run around in the light blue until nearer the time of the TPE contract starting, rather than gain DRS livery for a few months. Could be wrong though.
 

BMIFlyer

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Yes I think it's been reported already that that'll be the case. 68016-032 being available for TPE use with most being in TPE livery. Some of the spare locos in the pool may retain DRS livery as 008 & 009 do despite having AAR and working on Chiltern.

The lighter blue is just the base coat that all the 68's have (bar the Chiltern ones). Some DRS ones were delivered to the UK in the same colour with vinyls added at Kingmoor. I suspect 026 & 027 will run around in the light blue until nearer the time of the TPE contract starting, rather than gain DRS livery for a few months. Could be wrong though.

68019-34 are all to be sent to TPE.


68019-68032 in TPE livery
68033-34 in DRS colours and allocated as Spare.

All the above locos will be the only ones compatible with the TPE mk5s once modified but some normal DRS machines will be used in the meantime to haul the MK3's during training.
 
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CosherB

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Easiest and quickest way to create 2 x Mk3 rakes from the Pretendolino - you have 5 x TSOs, convert 1 x FO into a TSO, and then add either an RFM or an FO to each rake. Use a DRS DVT in each rake and top-and-tail with 68s, so no push-pull mods needed. Simples! Although the train would be a bit long with only 4 seated carriages ..... ;)

So:

2 x 68-TSO-TSO-TSO-RFM-DVT-68

or

2 x 68-TSO-TSO-TSO-FO-DVT-68
 

BMIFlyer

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Easiest and quickest way to create 2 x Mk3 rakes from the Pretendolino - you have 5 x TSOs, convert 1 x FO into a TSO, and then add either an RFM or an FO to each rake. Use a DRS DVT in each rake and top-and-tail with 68s, so no push-pull mods needed. Simples! Although the train would be a bit long with only 4 seated carriages ..... ;)

So:

2 x 68-TSO-TSO-TSO-RFM-DVT-68

or

2 x 68-TSO-TSO-TSO-FO-DVT-68

The Mk3 DVT's are not route cleared over certain parts of the TPE network so have been ruled out. Hence why a couple of RFB coaches are being converted to TSO's to give each rake 2 locos and 5 coaches.
 

Bletchleyite

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The Mk3 DVT's are not route cleared over certain parts of the TPE network so have been ruled out. Hence why a couple of RFB coaches are being converted to TSO's to give each rake 2 locos and 5 coaches.

Does that mean no van at all, or is a guard's area being provided? Do any of the coaches have handbrakes[1], or will the locos be left permanently attached to serve that role?

[1] In mainland Europe *all* coaches have handbrakes and the idea of a dedicated van is a strange UK curiosity.
 

BMIFlyer

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As they are converting the RFB coaches I would assume (however it could change) that part of the conversion would be a guards area. I am not sure if the buffet car on the pretendolino had a guards area on it.

As far as I've read elsewhere they trains will be top and tailed for the duration so one would expect the locos to be used as a form of handbrake.
 

michael74

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Hi, I had a quick search through the site, couldn't see anything. I went past Laria this afternoon, and I saw what looked like a Virgin Pendilino set (at least minus 1 power car) in the depot, was I seeing things?
 
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