Transpennine Express decide not to use MK3's on limited services

[61653 HTAFC]

Is a 3 carriage train enough for the local and Hull trains?

Probably not, but why alter the 30-year tradition of tiny trains?

 

[Ih8earlies]

Internal Email memo has just announced that the mk3's will be entering service from late July (with possible occasional appearances earlier).

There will be no Wheelchair or Cycle provision onboard with customers advised to catch the next service. (York to Scarborough excepted - where a taxi will be provided for customers in a wheelchair.)

The email also includes a load of details about formation, vehicle numbers etc - plus references to Door Marshalls onboard and an unspecified method of work for operation at Seamer.

 

[Crossforth]

Internal Email memo has just announced that the mk3's will be entering service from late July (with possible occasional appearances earlier).

There will be no Wheelchair or Cycle provision onboard with customers advised to catch the next service. (York to Scarborough excepted - where a taxi will be provided for customers in a wheelchair.)

The email also includes a load of details about formation, vehicle numbers etc - plus references to Door Marshalls onboard and an unspecified method of work for operation at Seamer.

I had that too. I’ve read worse documents :P

I may be having a blonde moment but does anyone know what a UAT is?

 

[43096]

I had that too. I’ve read worse documents :P

I may be having a blonde moment but does anyone know what a UAT is?

UAT = Ultrasonic Axle Test

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cycles I can understand if they aren't using the DVT from the set. Wheelchairs...surely from VTWC use there is a wheelchair accessible bog (old style) and space in both classes, so if it's two sets they could have one of those vehicles in each set?

Door marshalls? Is this to prevent people leaning out? Costly if they need one per door, that's like US operations!

 

[td97]

Door marshalls? Is this to prevent people leaning out? Costly if they need one per door, that's like US operations!

Could be to reduce dwell times - passengers won't be used to a) slam door stock and having to reach out of the window to exit the train, and b) shutting the door if they're last off, to speed up dispatch

 

[pemma]

There will be no Wheelchair or Cycle provision onboard with customers advised to catch the next service. (York to Scarborough excepted - where a taxi will be provided for customers in a wheelchair.)

Surely passengers with tickets which include a leg on another service need to be excepted as well. For instance what if you have a Leeds to Bromley Cross ticket? Waiting for the next TPE service will mean you miss your connection at Victoria.

 

[Ih8earlies]

Surely passengers with tickets which include a leg on another service need to be excepted as well. For instance what if you have a Leeds to Bromley Cross ticket? Waiting for the next TPE service will mean you miss your connection at Victoria.

In terms of passengers with a Bicycle - Presumably they won't be able to obtain a cycle reservation for these services (Cycle reservations being mandatory from the 20th of May).

As for passengers in these circumstances in a wheelchair... No idea.

 

[Bovverboy]

Does anyone know why, from 21/5/18, up to four TPE sets per day are going to be running out of the Bombardier depot at Crofton? And why has there apparently been, since last December, an FSSuX ECS working, Hull-Crofton-Wakefield Kirkgate-Crofton-Hull?

No takers?

 

[Idon'tKnow]

Wait, will the door marshalls mean us passengers won't get to open and slam the doors? ):

 

[pemma]

Could be to reduce dwell times - passengers won't be used to a) slam door stock and having to reach out of the window to exit the train, and b) shutting the door if they're last off, to speed up dispatch

I'm pretty sure DRS did that when they operated the services in Workington following flooding destroying the road and foot bridges.

 

[1D53]

No takers?

Use as a fuelling point?

 

[pemma]

Wait, will the door marshalls mean us passengers won't get to open and slam the doors? ):

Na. Mick Cash would ballot for a strike if passengers were to open and slam the doors.

 

[BMIFlyer]

UAT = Ultrasonic Axle Test

No no, it means Universal Access Toilet.

Cycles I can understand if they aren't using the DVT from the set. Wheelchairs...surely from VTWC use there is a wheelchair accessible bog (old style) and space in both classes, so if it's two sets they could have one of those vehicles in each set?

Door marshalls? Is this to prevent people leaning out? Costly if they need one per door, that's like US operations!

No wheelchairs as the bog even though it is a disabled access one doesn't meet today's standards.

Door marshalls to stop the idiots from flailing and also there to help with people opening and closing doors, boarding, alighting and other stuff.

No takers?

TPE using Crofton to service the class 185s overnight.

 

[43096]

No no, it means Universal Access Toilet.

In this context, yes, now I read back

No wheelchairs as the bog even though it is a disabled access one doesn't meet today's standards.

Which isn't an issue until 31/12/19. The issue for TPE is that they only have one TSOD so only one set could have wheelchair accommodation. Presumably TPE have decided it is easier to make both diagrams no wheelchair.

Before anyone asks, there are no spare TSODs - only 9 were converted and they are currently with GWR (3), converted to HST stock for GC, now EMT (3), scrapped (1), preserved (1).

 

[Bovverboy]

Bovverboy said: ↑
Does anyone know why, from 21/5/18, up to four TPE sets per day are going to be running out of the Bombardier depot at Crofton? And why has there apparently been, since last December, an FSSuX ECS working, Hull-Crofton-Wakefield Kirkgate-Crofton-Hull?

TPE using Crofton to service the class 185s overnight.

Can I presume you've access to official information? TPE & Bombardier seem to have been very tight-lipped about this. But why is this being done now, particularly? As of next week Siemens won't have any more 185s & 350s to maintain than they've ever had - even 185s hired to Northern have continued to be maintained at Ardwick & York.

P.S. Has no-one any comment on the above-mentioned ECS working? (The Crofton - Wakefield Kirkgate - Crofton section seems to be routinely cancelled, it may be that it has never operated).

 

[BMIFlyer]

Can I presume you've access to official information? TPE & Bombardier seem to have been very tight-lipped about this. But why is this being done now, particularly? As of next week Siemens won't have any more 185s & 350s to maintain than they've ever had - even 185s hired to Northern have continued to be maintained at Ardwick & York.

P.S. Has no-one any comment on the above-mentioned ECS working? (The Crofton - Wakefield Kirkgate - Crofton section seems to be routinely cancelled, it may be that it has never operated).

Yes I do have some info. Don’t see why TPE using a Crofton is an issue. For starters it is a lot more secure than stabling at Hull for example.

 

[capital12]

Yes I do have some info. Don’t see why TPE using a Crofton is an issue. For starters it is a lot more secure than stabling at Hull for example.

Crofton don’t seem to be doing a very good job at maintaining the 180s since they moved from OOC!

 

[whhistle]

I may be having a blonde moment but does anyone know what a UAT is?

UAT = Ultrasonic Axle Test

Or User Acceptance Testing :P

 

[BMIFlyer]

Crofton don’t seem to be doing a very good job at maintaining the 180s since they moved from OOC!

Don’t worry it will just be fuelling and servicing the toilets, etc.

Siemens still doing technical stuff.

 

[pemma]

Which isn't an issue until 31/12/19. The issue for TPE is that they only have one TSOD so only one set could have wheelchair accommodation. Presumably TPE have decided it is easier to make both diagrams no wheelchair.

If TPE offer a turn up and go taxi service for disabled passengers who can't board it might even be OK post-2019. The requirement isn't to offer everyone the same service, it's to not offer a lower standard of service to those with disabilities e.g. not requiring wheelchair passengers to book in advance, not providing passenger information for those who are deaf etc. I very much doubt all stations with wheelchair accessibility issues will be dealt with by the end of next year so I'd very much expect a turn up and go taxi service to be part of the solution.

 

[geoffk]

Exactly. But the question is where were those planned? Were the Loco Hauled trains planned to replace the two lost to Northern, or were both considered necessary for this timetable when it was first devised? I don't know. Can they get an extra unit back from the refurbishment work?

The Leeds - Manchester semi-fast (replacement for Northern services) will require three units and one is saved on the Liverpool - Scarborough circuit, so a net increase of two, I think I'm right in saying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If TPE offer a turn up and go taxi service for disabled passengers who can't board it might even be OK post-2019. The requirement isn't to offer everyone the same service, it's to not offer a lower standard of service to those with disabilities e.g. not requiring wheelchair passengers to book in advance, not providing passenger information for those who are deaf etc. I very much doubt all stations with wheelchair accessibility issues will be dealt with by the end of next year so I'd very much expect a turn up and go taxi service to be part of the solution.

A taxi service at the train time is a lower standard of service than a train service. It's cramped and there's no toilet to name two.

I'd rather be on a train than in a taxi even if I couldn't use the bog as I can't use it in the taxi either.

 

[43096]

A taxi service at the train time is a lower standard of service than a train service. It's cramped and there's no toilet to name two.

I'd rather be on a train than in a taxi even if I couldn't use the bog as I can't use it in the taxi either.

It is also likely to be a slower service in a taxi.

 

[pemma]

A taxi service at the train time is a lower standard of service than a train service. It's cramped and there's no toilet to name two.

I'd rather be on a train than in a taxi even if I couldn't use the bog as I can't use it in the taxi either.

It is also likely to be a slower service in a taxi.

Depends on what's offered. As a non-TPE example the Chester bound platform at Northwich has accessibility issues. If a wheelchair passenger at Manchester Piccadilly was loaded on a fast train to Warrington Central and then a taxi was provided to Northwich, would that be a worse service if the taxi driver was told to provide a comfort break if requested by the passenger? The wheelchair passenger might even beat the regular passenger to Northwich, depending exactly what time they turned up and on traffic conditions.

 

[Bovverboy]

The Leeds - Manchester semi-fast (replacement for Northern services) will require three units and one is saved on the Liverpool - Scarborough circuit, so a net increase of two, I think I'm right in saying.

There's a saving of one 185 on hire to Northern too, the hire's coming down from three units to two w.e.f. this weekend.

 

[Bovverboy]

Yes I do have some info. Don’t see why TPE using a Crofton is an issue. For starters it is a lot more secure than stabling at Hull for example.

On Mondays to Saturdays the four Crofton-based units are going to run ECS to Doncaster, Sheffield, Leeds, and Huddersfield to take up service. The one going ECS to Leeds then does Leeds-Hull, and, yes, there does appear to be a reduction of one unit in the number stabled at the latter point, but that does still leave two, down from three.
I don't know the score at Hull, but according to RTT the TPE units stable in the station platforms, which I would have thought would be pretty secure. Is it not?

 

[CdBrux]

Depends on what's offered. As a non-TPE example the Chester bound platform at Northwich has accessibility issues. If a wheelchair passenger at Manchester Piccadilly was loaded on a fast train to Warrington Central and then a taxi was provided to Northwich, would that be a worse service if the taxi driver was told to provide a comfort break if requested by the passenger? The wheelchair passenger might even beat the regular passenger to Northwich, depending exactly what time they turned up and on traffic conditions.

Would the taxi service offer, within reason, door to door or station to station service?

 

[geoffk]

Is a 3 carriage train enough for the local and Hull trains?

If the semi-fasts run as six cars, only one unit will be platformed at some (all?) of the smaller stations.

 

[pemma]

Would the taxi service offer, within reason, door to door or station to station service?

I imagine the instruction would be the station but if the taxi is only carrying one passenger I doubt the driver will mind if the passenger asks to be dropped off somewhere which doesn't require more time/diesel to get to than the station.