TransPennine Express North Route, New Timetable

[noddingdonkey]

It seems that Marsden Platform 2 is getting a Harrington Hump or similar, according to a letter from Chris Grayling to Thelma Walker MP (Colne Valley) which she has shared on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ThelmaWalkerforLabour/posts/2203887836531556

following a site visit by Network Rail on 9 January, they have proposed to install a temporary 21 metre long Easy Access Area to the centre of Platform 2. This will serve two doors of the central carriage of the Transpennine Express three car Class 185 units and align with Northern's Class 150 units.

Should be in place by February 25th, if all goes to plan and a posession can be arranged. Services have been using Platform 3 recently to avoid this issue, but taking a timing hit due to the line speed difference, reverting to platform 2 is unlikely to be popular with some passengers due to the access issues.

Of course Grayling omits to realise that 170s have been serving this route since December - do any 185s call at Marsden any more?

 

[Kite159]

It seems that Marsden Platform 2 is getting a Harrington Hump or similar, according to a letter from Chris Grayling to Thelma Walker MP (Colne Valley) which she has shared on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ThelmaWalkerforLabour/posts/2203887836531556



Should be in place by February 25th, if all goes to plan and a posession can be arranged. Services have been using Platform 3 recently to avoid this issue, but taking a timing hit due to the line speed difference, reverting to platform 2 is unlikely to be popular with some passengers due to the access issues.

Of course Grayling omits to realise that 170s have been serving this route since December - do any 185s call at Marsden any more?

Isn't the service the 170 operates a Leeds - Huddersfield stopper so doesn't serve Marsden?

 

[bengley]

Isn't the service the 170 operates a Leeds - Huddersfield stopper so doesn't serve Marsden?

Correct. No 170s serve Marsden in passenger service.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Of course Grayling omits to realise that 170s have been serving this route since December - do any 185s call at Marsden any more?

failed to mention it because it isn't true

 

[noddingdonkey]

Thanks for the clarification, I thought 170s were the original plan but it obviously changed.

 

[BMIFlyer]

reverting to platform 2 is unlikely to be popular with some passengers due to the access issues.

You mean like the issues on platform 3 too? Yawn.

 

[noddingdonkey]

The loop platform currently in use has level access.

Yawn.

I agree, it is tedious that in 2019 this is still an issue. But it is.

 

[BMIFlyer]

The loop platform currently in use has level access.



I agree, it is tedious that in 2019 this is still an issue. But it is.

Yes I know.

I just can’t believe however that people complain there is no level access to platform 2, yet don’t say the same about platform 1 as well.

I very much doubt the people of Marsden only do one way trips.

 

[LittleAH]

Yes I know.

I just can’t believe however that people complain there is no level access to platform 2, yet don’t say the same about platform 3 as well.

I very much doubt the people of Marsden only do one way trips.

I remember reading The Yorkshire Post's hatchet job claiming an old boy couldn't get to hospital in Leeds because platform was no longer served. It was in the wrong sodding direction!

 

[geoffk]

Yes I know.

I just can’t believe however that people complain there is no level access to platform 2, yet don’t say the same about platform 3 as well.

I very much doubt the people of Marsden only do one way trips.

More of an issue surely that platform 1 has no level access as most passengers will travel both ways. A better solution would be to get rid of the 15mph turnout into the loop by providing a longer-radius point. There's plenty of room. That would also help get the few daytime freights into the loop a bit quicker.

 

[nr758123]

Yes I know.

I just can’t believe however that people complain there is no level access to platform 2, yet don’t say the same about platform 3 as well.

I very much doubt the people of Marsden only do one way trips.

In an attempt to clear up any confusion, the platform with level access is platform 3. The eastbound platform with no level access is platform 1.

Actually people do complain about the lack of level access to platform 1, and have been doing so for at least the past 15 years. Until the timetable change platform 2 was not so much of an issue as it was not in regular use.

Platform 2 is now the bigger issue because in addition to the steep steps down to the platform, there is a height difference of 0.5m between train and platform - that doesn't apply to platform 1.

 

[yorkguy]

https://www.kevinhollinrake.org.uk/news/new-facilities-malton-station-great-news
Good to hear that Malton station is to have some of the facilities returned that were stripped out in the 80s ie toilets, waiting room. New ticket office also planned

 

[Class 170101]

I remember reading The Yorkshire Post's hatchet job claiming an old boy couldn't get to hospital in Leeds because platform was no longer served. It was in the wrong sodding direction!

But could be sent via Stalybridge instead and come back on themselves. Not ideal I know but its better than nothing.

 

[LittleAH]

But could be sent via Stalybridge instead and come back on themselves. Not ideal I know but its better than nothing.

I'm sure the old boy can manage a bus ride into Huddersfield in that case, on transport with low floors.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

https://www.kevinhollinrake.org.uk/news/new-facilities-malton-station-great-news
Good to hear that Malton station is to have some of the facilities returned that were stripped out in the 80s ie toilets, waiting room. New ticket office also planned

Just a second platform needed now!

 

[nr758123]

It seems that Marsden Platform 2 is getting a Harrington Hump or similar, according to a letter from Chris Grayling to Thelma Walker MP (Colne Valley) which she has shared on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ThelmaWalkerforLabour/posts/2203887836531556

Should be in place by February 25th, if all goes to plan and a posession can be arranged. Services have been using Platform 3 recently to avoid this issue, but taking a timing hit due to the line speed difference, reverting to platform 2 is unlikely to be popular with some passengers due to the access issues.

Press release from Network Rail dated 18th February.

Thanks to new funding, part of a £15million benefit package for passengers in the North of England announced in late 2018, work will take place to raise the height of platform two.

The upgrade will mean platform two will be made a consistent height from one end to the other, making it easier for passengers to get on and off trains stopping at the station and remove the need for single door operation, the process where only one set of doors on the train are available for passengers to board and alight.

The discrepancy between the height of the platform and the trains using platform two was initially going to be solved by the installation of a temporary graded slope known as a Harrington Hump but the additional funding now means the whole of the platform can be raised instead.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....ility-at-west-yorkshire-station-gets-underway

 

[yorkguy]

Just a second platform needed now!

Definitely. We can but hope.......... At least there’s plenty of room for it

 

[bengley]

Can confirm after driving through Marsden today that work has already begun to deck over platform 2.

 

[faltskog36abba]

In the new May timetable- Liverpool to Edinburgh trains have appeared-Real time trains. There is an early departure from Edinburgh 05.xx arriving in to lime street at 09.59, With a return working from lime street to Edinburgh at 21xx arriving four hours later. I thought these trains were running later in the year?.

 

[BMIFlyer]

All ‘extra’ May 2019 TPE services will now start on 8 Sept, so that’s the Liverpool to Glasgow via WCML, and the Newcastle to Edinburgh extension.

2x class 185 returning to TPE from Northern from May timetable change and this is confirmed to be happening - Northern to use the class 195 on those services or if not ready they will use 3 car class 158’s.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

All ‘extra’ May 2019 TPE services will now start on 8 Sept, so that’s the Liverpool to Glasgow via WCML, and the Newcastle to Edinburgh extension.

2x class 185 returning to TPE from Northern from May timetable change and this is confirmed to be happening - Northern to use the class 195 on those services or if not ready they will use 3 car class 158’s.

Do we know yet if the return of 185s from Northern will mean either or both of (a) the end of the 170 hire-in, and (b) the rejoining of the stoppers currently split at Huddersfield?

 

[BMIFlyer]

Do we know yet if the return of 185s from Northern will mean either or both of (a) the end of the 170 hire-in, and (b) the rejoining of the stoppers currently split at Huddersfield?

Stopping trains to remain as they are - split at Hudds. Currently the planning for December timetable is in the works and the stoppers might be retimed to suit other services passing.

Looks like the trains will remain split for the foreseeable future due to infrastructure.

Regarding the 2 class 185s returning...

The original plan was 2 Nova 3 sets into service replace 2 class 185 units. Then those 185’s do the Liverpool based WCML services.

The final 2 class 185s we need would also return from Northern meaning one set can extend turnarounds on the Liverpool to Scarborough runs from 15 mins to 70 mins. The other would extend Newcastle turnarounds from 10-20 mins to nearly an hour.

That would involve keeping the 170 until later.

Now the plan is that the extended turns at NCL and SCA will happen as planned with the 2 extra 185’s and further changes to unit allocations and introducing new services will go ahead when Mk5’s begin service (removal of the 170 for example).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Stopping trains to remain as they are - split at Hudds. Currently the planning for December timetable is in the works and the stoppers might be retimed to suit other services passing.

Looks like the trains will remain split for the foreseeable future due to infrastructure.

Regarding the 2 class 185s returning...

The original plan was 2 Nova 3 sets into service replace 2 class 185 units. Then those 185’s do the Liverpool based WCML services.

The final 2 class 185s we need would also return from Northern meaning one set can extend turnarounds on the Liverpool to Scarborough runs from 15 mins to 70 mins. The other would extend Newcastle turnarounds from 10-20 mins to nearly an hour.

That would involve keeping the 170 until later.

Now the plan is that the extended turns at NCL and SCA will happen as planned with the 2 extra 185’s and further changes to unit allocations and introducing new services will go ahead when Mk5’s begin service (removal of the 170 for example).

Thanks.

If the plan is indeed to keep the 6th train per hour split at Huddersfield, is there perhaps a case for handing it over to Northern? As it appears that wiring of the whole route won't happen at least at first, a wired Leeds to Huddersfield would allow that service to be an EMU. Northern (and its successor) will have a fleet of EMUs based in Leeds whereas the TPE franchisee's "electric only" fleet will be based on the wrong side of the Pennines with a likely Mossley gap in the way.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Thanks.

If the plan is indeed to keep the 6th train per hour split at Huddersfield, is there perhaps a case for handing it over to Northern? As it appears that wiring of the whole route won't happen at least at first, a wired Leeds to Huddersfield would allow that service to be an EMU. Northern (and its successor) will have a fleet of EMUs based in Leeds whereas the TPE franchisee's "electric only" fleet will be based on the wrong side of the Pennines with a likely Mossley gap in the way.

No plans to hand it back to Northern.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No plans to hand it back to Northern.

I wouldn't expect there to be during the current franchises... but in the longer term it would be a better fit with Northern, assuming that the current split franchises remain so.

 

[Greybeard33]

The final 2 class 185s we need would also return from Northern meaning one set can extend turnarounds on the Liverpool to Scarborough runs from 15 mins to 70 mins. The other would extend Newcastle turnarounds from 10-20 mins to nearly an hour.

Currently the Newcastle turnarounds are around 10 minutes for the Airport services and around 35 minutes for the Liverpools. The booked Newcastle platforms shown on RTT for May to Dec would leave the Liverpools' turnarounds unchanged, but extend the Airports' by an hour, to around 70 minutes.

Is the plan now to interwork the Liverpool and Airport diagrams at Newcastle? That would even up the turnaround times, with around 55 - 60 minutes between an arrival from the Airport and a departure to Liverpool, and around 50 minutes between an arrival from Liverpool and a departure to the Airport. But any 802s introduced before December would have to work both routes.

 

[nr758123]

I wouldn't expect there to be during the current franchises... but in the longer term it would be a better fit with Northern, assuming that the current split franchises remain so.

The fact that the stations between Stalybridge & Huddersfield are still managed by Northern, even though 90% of the trains at those stations are provided by TPE, suggests that when the franchise specs were drawn up it was envisaged that at some point Northern would become the principal operator of Manchester-Huddersfield stopping services.

Of course the thinking may have changed since then, possibly several times.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The fact that the stations between Stalybridge & Huddersfield are still managed by Northern, even though 90% of the trains at those stations are provided by TPE, suggests that when the franchise specs were drawn up it was envisaged that at some point Northern would become the principal operator of Manchester-Huddersfield stopping services.

Of course the thinking may have changed since then, possibly several times.

Though stations between Huddersfield and Leeds (Dewsbury excepted) are also still managed by Northern, several with more than half the services calling being TPE.

 

[Andyh82]

When the May18 timetable was first debated it was suggested the stoppers would be replaced by skip stops in other services, so it made some sort of sense passing to TPE.

In reality the 6th train per hour turned into a service with almost all the skip stops with only a few moved to the Hull.

Now they’ve moved even more of the stops into the 6th train and split it at Huddersfield, it makes no sense at all to be operated by TPE.

 

[AMD]

Did anyone notice that the stoppers to Huddersfield used to be operated by Northern, until the last franchise change in 2016 when they were transferred to TPE.
And as far as we are concerned TPE can keep them