TransPennine Express to Saltburn from May 2022 confirmed

[47827]

Seems tight on timings unless thats F1 pit stop style servicing.

Ample time to refuel which would be one of the important things.

 

[Watershed]

So stabling in Scarborough still? Would that be station of the depot?

All ECS movements at Scarborough are timed. So unless there is an ECS to and from the depot...

I suspect the plans currently showing in RTT are basically a work of fiction. There will likely be rather fewer sets out - at least at the commencement of the timetable.

 

[47827]

All ECS movements at Scarborough are timed. So unless there is an ECS to and from the depot...

I suspect the plans currently showing in RTT are basically a work of fiction. There will likely be rather fewer sets out - at least at the commencement of the timetable.

Maybe so due to the nature of the network currently, although if those services stick it will be logical to run sets to the depot for fuel in the daytime if the diagrams give them time to do that.

 

[Watershed]

Maybe so due to the nature of the network currently, although if those services stick it will be logical to run sets to the depot for fuel in the daytime if the diagrams give them time to do that.

If the sets are doing all day diagrams with runs to and from Liverpool etc., then yes they'll have to be fuelled at Scarborough. Doing so during the daytime avoids the noise complaints but obviously takes a set out of action for about an hour at a time.

If they're mainly doing York shuttles as now, they can get away without fuelling, because the turnarounds are so long that effectively the set is only working for 6-7 hours a day vs. perhaps twice that on Liverpool workings.

 

[47827]

If the sets are doing all day diagrams with runs to and from Liverpool etc., then yes they'll have to be fuelled at Scarborough. Doing so during the daytime avoids the noise complaints but obviously takes a set out of action for about an hour at a time.

If they're mainly doing York shuttles as now, they can get away without fuelling, because the turnarounds are so long that effectively the set is only working for 6-7 hours a day vs. perhaps twice that on Liverpool workings.

Interestingly York shuttles were just showing on Sundays still but 2 of the sets on them appear to have an hour on the depot too during the day.

 

[ainsworth74]

These have started with little, that I've noticed, fanfare. I tried doing the evening service on Day one (yesterday) but was severely defeated by a broken down freight train (that killed the service between Middlesbrough and Saltburn full stop from around 1900 to the end of the day). However today it came off smoothly!




My passenger count had three from Redcar to Saltburn and two on from Saltburn (including me!). Jolly good fun to have a 185 down here though and go non-stop to/from Redcar. Arrived around 5 early at Redcar, clearly time for a stop at Marske both ways!

Hopefully when the full timetable starts it'll get more use though rather just being an operational convenience.

 

[Kite159]

These have started with little, that I've noticed, fanfare. I tried doing the evening service on Day one (yesterday) but was severely defeated by a broken down freight train (that killed the service between Middlesbrough and Saltburn full stop from around 1900 to the end of the day). However today it came off smoothly!
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My passenger count had three from Redcar to Saltburn and two on from Saltburn (including me!). Jolly good fun to have a 185 down here though and go non-stop to/from Redcar. Arrived around 5 early at Redcar, clearly time for a stop at Marske both ways!

Hopefully when the full timetable starts it'll get more use though rather just being an operational convenience.

Although I fear when TPE does start up with the full timetable, it will give Northern the excuse to permanently cut back their service to 1tph for the entire line.

 

[ainsworth74]

Although I fear when TPE does start up with the full timetable, it will give Northern the excuse to permanently cut back their service to 1tph for the entire line.

Very unlikely. TPE only serve Thornaby, Middlesbrough, Redcar Central and Saltburn. That would still cut Dinsdale, Allens West, Eaglescliffe, Redcar East, Longbeck and Marske. Its a non-starter from a service point of view and that's quite apart from us being the darling of the Tory Party with our shiny mayor and new Tory MPs.

 

[mm333]

Tonight's 8pm-ish inbound and out are both cancelled "due to a shortage of drivers".

 

[pennine]

It will be non-stop.

Saltburn will see the addition of a messroom, but no additional passenger facing facilities AFAIK.

Not meaning to sound dense, but where would this be located? Would they need to erect a new structure/cabin?

 

[yorksrob]

I definitely need to give Saltburn a try one day. Now there's a direct train it would be rude not to.

 

[800001]

Not meaning to sound dense, but where would this be located? Would they need to erect a new structure/cabin?

Various parts of old station with unoccupied rooms.

 

[marsker]

There is a new portacabin at the west end of the station. This will have toilet and cooking facilities.
Looking at RTT for December, there will be around a 50 minute turn back, so messroom is needed.

 

[ainsworth74]

One thing that intrigues me now that the service has appeared in RTT is that there is going to be one hour in the day where, for a few minutes at least, there will be two TPEs in the station at the same time. Typically from mid-morning onwards the TPEs arrive at xx58 and the depart at xx51. But then in the evening we have a 1906 arrival which doesn't depart until 2008 meaning that it will be there at the same time as the 2004 arrival. I'm mildly curious as to why the 1906 arrival doesn't depart at 1951 like you'd expect it to.

There is a new portacabin at the west end of the station. This will have toilet and cooking facilities.

Interesting! Seems a bit of shame for them not to use part of the station building. Must surely be enough space as I don't think it's all used? Though I haven't paid close attention to what businesses are set up within.

 

[Kite159]

I suspect the residents who live near the loop in Redcar will be happy they will no longer have 185s idling by when sitting in said loop when they need to clear the platform

 

[pennine]

One thing that intrigues me now that the service has appeared in RTT is that there is going to be one hour in the day where, for a few minutes at least, there will be two TPEs in the station at the same time. Typically from mid-morning onwards the TPEs arrive at xx58 and the depart at xx51. But then in the evening we have a 1906 arrival which doesn't depart until 2008 meaning that it will be there at the same time as the 2004 arrival. I'm mildly curious as to why the 1906 arrival doesn't depart at 1951 like you'd expect it to.


Interesting! Seems a bit of shame for them not to use part of the station building. Must surely be enough space as I don't think it's all used? Though I haven't paid close attention to what businesses are set up within.

I wouldn't want to pay the rents for any if the units in the old station building. In dire need of repair and astronomical.

I can only see a green tin cabin not accessed from the platform as shown in the first picture.

Also seems that there's going to be new departure screens- the one already installed is inadequate!

 

[bearhugger]

I definitely need to give Saltburn a try one day. Now there's a direct train it would be rude not to.

There's the Miniature Railway (usually runs at weekends but check their website / facebook page for running days) in the Valley Gardens and the funicular railway down to the pier that are worth a go.

 

[ainsworth74]

I wouldn't want to pay the rents for any if the units in the old station building. In dire need of repair and astronomical.

Ah shame! It would be nice to get the building more in use but if the landlord isn't be sensible/pragmatic

I can only see a green tin cabin not accessed from the platform as shown in the first picture.

Oh interesting! I was wondering what they were doing down there last year (or maybe earlier this year, can't recall now!) when they were digging that area up and fiddling around. Presumably it was laying foundations for the portacabin that has appeared since!

Also seems that there's going to be new departure screens- the one already installed is inadequate!

I spotted some new screens at Redcar East this morning so I wonder if Northern are having a little upgrade of screens along the line? Certainly though Saltburn's one summary screen hasn't been sufficient since day one. It doesn't even tell you calling patterns which I suppose you could just about get away with when the only trains were, with a few exceptions, to Bishop or Darlington but certainly isn't fit for purpose now there will be trains to Manchester (still feels like a strange thing to say about Saltburn!).

 

[billio]

There's little old Saltburn getting 3 trains an hour connecting it with the ECML, and then there's Scarborough, about 10 times as big, getting one. Somethin' wrong surely.

(Yes I know there's another hourly train to Scarborough that wanders along the east coast, but that doesn't count.)

 

[Watershed]

There's little old Saltburn getting 3 trains an hour connecting it with the ECML, and then there's Scarborough, about 10 times as big, getting one. Somethin' wrong surely.

(Yes I know there's another hourly train to Scarborough that wanders along the east coast, but that doesn't count.)

As with many of these things on the railway, it's driven more by operational convenience than anything else. Saltburn doesn't really receive a half hourly service to Darlington because there are millions of people wanting to make that journey, but rather because that service serves many intermediate flows and there isn't really anywhere convenient to terminate alternate services, with a decent turnround, between Middlesbrough and Saltburn.

I think there is every prospect of Scarborough getting a more frequent service to York in the future. From December, the headcodes of services go up in 4s (e.g. 1U24, 1U28, 1U32 to York), leaving a gap (1U26/30). That does suggest some level of intention to introduce services to fill (a few?) of these gaps.

 

[Starmill]

Scarborough - York was identified as having sufficient demand to support 2tph which had previously been due to start in 2019.

Obviously the delivery of that was long delayed and now the pandemic and the new agenda changes things. But as above providing the funding were in place it would be fairly straightforward to run 2tph for some or all of the day.

Scarborough - York was upgraded to hourly on Sundays less than a decade ago too. Shame the current provision on Sundays is little more than a shrug of the shoulders, as with many TransPennine Express routes.

 

[Llandudno]

There's little old Saltburn getting 3 trains an hour connecting it with the ECML, and then there's Scarborough, about 10 times as big, getting one. Somethin' wrong surely.

(Yes I know there's another hourly train to Scarborough that wanders along the east coast, but that doesn't count.)

and how many of the Scarborough-York trains actually operate seeing as though it’s a TransPennine Express service…?

 

[blackfive460]

and how many of the Scarborough-York trains actually operate seeing as though it’s a TransPennine Express service…?

Thanks to the majority of services being Scarborough <> York shuttles we've been doing rather well for quite a while now. When TransPantomime start running to and from Scarborough over the Pennines again I'm sure things will get back to 'normal'.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Thanks to the majority of services being Scarborough <> York shuttles we've been doing rather well for quite a while now. When TransPantomime start running to and from Scarborough over the Pennines again I'm sure things will get back to 'normal'.

That deserves a mention in the unofficial nicknames thread... a bit more imaginative than the usual First/Worst, Great/Late, and Rail/Fail ones!

 

[billio]

As with many of these things on the railway, it's driven more by operational convenience than anything else. Saltburn doesn't really receive a half hourly service to Darlington because there are millions of people wanting to make that journey, but rather because that service serves many intermediate flows and there isn't really anywhere convenient to terminate alternate services, with a decent turnround, between Middlesbrough and Saltburn.

I think there is every prospect of Scarborough getting a more frequent service to York in the future. From December, the headcodes of services go up in 4s (e.g. 1U24, 1U28, 1U32 to York), leaving a gap (1U26/30). That does suggest some level of intention to introduce services to fill (a few?) of these gaps.

Well I hope the half-hourly service happens because I would probably use the line more. What I find strange is that a place with the prestige of Scarborough doesn't kick up more of a fuss about the poor train service they receive. This especially so because the main road, the A64, tends to be beset with traffic hold ups.

 

[Starmill]

Well I hope the half-hourly service happens because I would probably use the line more. What I find strange is that a place with the prestige of Scarborough doesn't kick up more of a fuss about the poor train service they receive. This especially so because the main road, the A64, tends to be beset with traffic hold ups.

I think that it does. There are occasionally political demands for some through London services, though the option in the tender for these was ultimately rejected in favour of the Harrogate and Middlesbrough services by the Virgin Trains East Coast bid team. There was also a successful campaign to increase the Sunday service to York to hourly, and Monday - Saturday to make hourly through services to Leeds a requirement and to increase the service to Hull to hourly.

Saltburn itself, and Redcar and Cleveland more widely, don't actually have a more successful political campaign for better services. They simply got lucky.

 

[pennine]

There's little old Saltburn getting 3 trains an hour connecting it with the ECML, and then there's Scarborough, about 10 times as big, getting one. Somethin' wrong surely.

(Yes I know there's another hourly train to Scarborough that wanders along the east coast, but that doesn't count.)

To be fair, its not all about getting connections with the ECML - although that is useful!

It's more about having direct links with regional centres such as York, Leeds and Manchester - which Scarborough already has!

Yes, before people say, this extension isn't just about providing links to Redcar and East Cleveland, it's about operational benefits, it will help the area *.

*providing the proposed timetable is implemented in full!

 

[billio]

To be fair, its not all about getting connections with the ECML - although that is useful!

It's more about having direct links with regional centres such as York, Leeds and Manchester - which Scarborough already has!

Yes, before people say, this extension isn't just about providing links to Redcar and East Cleveland, it's about operational benefits, it will help the area *.

*providing the proposed timetable is implemented in full!

But traveling from York, and other places, you have the choice of direct and via Darlington and now that the dread pacers have gone, the Darlington journey isn't all that bad.

 

[BoroAndy]

Scarborough - York was identified as having sufficient demand to support 2tph which had previously been due to start in 2019.

Obviously the delivery of that was long delayed and now the pandemic and the new agenda changes things. But as above providing the funding were in place it would be fairly straightforward to run 2tph for some or all of the day.

Scarborough - York was upgraded to hourly on Sundays less than a decade ago too. Shame the current provision on Sundays is little more than a shrug of the shoulders, as with many TransPennine Express routes.

Maybe it could be considered by Hull trains to put on a SCA-HUL-KGX service.

 

[Starmill]

Maybe it could be considered by Hull trains to put on a SCA-HUL-LKX service.

Unfortunately the journey times would simply be far too slow, although Hull Trains probably could have served Driffield or Bridlington competitively enough if they had the resources.