Transpennine Express decide not to use MK3's on limited services

[DanNCL]

According to a TP driver (last summer), they would be used to give TP crews experience in working loco-hauled passenger trains. Possibly only one diagram per day at first; Liverpool - Scarborough has been suggested for the initial route with Mark 3 stock - but until (or if) TP electrification gets done, the Mark 5 stock & 68s might later move onto Newcastle services.

((Of course, the "plan" may have changed since then...)

I hope they do operate to Newcastle; they'd make a nice change to the rammed full 185s

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The only route that the Mk3's will operate on will be Liverpool - Scarborough.

 

[Crossforth]

According to a TP driver (last summer), they would be used to give TP crews experience in working loco-hauled passenger trains. Possibly only one diagram per day at first; Liverpool - Scarborough has been suggested for the initial route with Mark 3 stock - but until (or if) TP electrification gets done, the Mark 5 stock & 68s might later move onto Newcastle services.

((Of course, the "plan" may have changed since then...)

They’ve said the Mk5s won’t go to Newcastle as that requires more crews than needed to be trained on them

 

[driver9000]

They're not going to Newcastle.

 

[simon7929]

Cant remember specifics but believe it was a couple of 156's that Northern sent over.. Think this happened around the time Northern started to receive the 150's from London Midland a couple of years back.

156470/73/97 and 98. Somebody did put pics up at the time but it was a few years ago. Think they were on an old forum that used to exist years ago. The stickers were attached on the toilet wall.

 

[MG11]

It seems like an enthusiat's dream but a pax's nightmare. It certainly will be interesting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It seems like an enthusiat's dream but a pax's nightmare. It certainly will be interesting.

I don't think any TPE passenger would complain about added capacity even if it was Pacers - the overcrowding problem really is beyond a joke.

 

[Phlip]

I don't think any TPE passenger would complain about added capacity even if it was Pacers - the overcrowding problem really is beyond a joke.

Indeed. Are there any TPE services that aren’t full during the day? Many are rammed - and not just in the core. More capacity is way beyond needed, doesn’t really matter what it is at this stage!

 

[AndrewE]

Indeed. Are there any TPE services that aren’t full during the day? Many are rammed - and not just in the core. More capacity is way beyond needed, doesn’t really matter what it is at this stage!

Be careful! The southerners (and even some west midlanders) will soon be telling you to stop whingeing...

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Newcastle are not getting mk3 or mk5. As a result Newcastle will lose middlesbrough and scarborough off our route cards. Pity as I have mk3 experience but I am not being utilised....

Newcastle will however be getting 802 and Edinburgh ECML.

Personally I think this will bite the company on its @$$. Traincrews who dont sign traction and traction out of place when the job is stopped makes it much harder to get services moving again

 

[yorksrob]

It seems like an enthusiat's dream but a pax's nightmare. It certainly will be interesting.

Anything that gets closer to enough capacity on TPE will be a passengers dream.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Newcastle are not getting mk3 or mk5. As a result Newcastle will lose middlesbrough and scarborough off our route cards. Pity as I have mk3 experience but I am not being utilised....

Newcastle will however be getting 802 and Edinburgh ECML.

Personally I think this will bite the company on its @$$. Traincrews who dont sign traction and traction out of place when the job is stopped makes it much harder to get services moving again

So they'll be on a few Scarborough to Liverpool services then? Hopefully the diagram will allow me to make use on occasion to/from Dewsbury...

 

[pemma]

Anything that gets closer to enough capacity on TPE will be a passengers dream.

Average Joe doesn't know how long new build takes or why more new build stock wasn't procured 10 years ago. They won't be happy with old slam door carriages.

 

[yorksrob]

Average Joe doesn't know how long new build takes or why more new build stock wasn't procured 10 years ago. They won't be happy with old slam door carriages.

If "Average Joe" suddenly finds a train with a seat where previously he was always stood in a vestibule, he won't give a stuff what doors are on the carriage.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

If "Average Joe" suddenly finds a train with a seat where previously he was always stood in a vestibule, he won't give a stuff what doors are on the carriage.

This.

Same with the eejits who complain that Scotrail passengers won't be happy with "ancient" HSTs. A seat is a seat.

You could put a bunch of 57" teak clerestories on the back of a 185 and people would be happy.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You could put a bunch of 57" teak clerestories on the back of a 185 and people would be happy.

Yes, but that's only because everyone is a secret rail enthusiast!

 

[AndrewE]

This.

Same with the eejits who complain that Scotrail passengers won't be happy with "ancient" HSTs. A seat is a seat.

You could put a bunch of 57" teak clerestories on the back of a 185 and people would be happy.

I would be happy with an HST (especially if it was a XC upgraded one) on any journey I was making... Infinitely better than most post-Mk3 stock for a long haul/limited stop journey. The problem is that the (not-so-)recent timetable upgrades have led pax to expect metro-frequency services on Inter-City routes.
If we had started with a structured network service plan (a Taktfahrplan?) rather than allowing franchises to bid for random service upgrades so they could look good and "compete" with other franchises and transport modes then we might have ended up with a more useable network, and capacity better matched to demand too.

 

[a_c_skinner]

I don't think any TPE passenger would complain about added capacity even if it was Pacers - the overcrowding problem really is beyond a joke.

Exactly.

 

[xotGD]

If "Average Joe" suddenly finds a train with a seat where previously he was always stood in a vestibule, he won't give a stuff what doors are on the carriage.

Meanwhile the cranks who were sat in the seats will be standing in the vestibules...

 

[AndrewE]

Meanwhile the cranks who were sat in the seats will be standing in the vestibules...

That's good news for the rest of us then, as long as they get out of the way at station stops...

 

[yorksrob]

Meanwhile the cranks who were sat in the seats will be standing in the vestibules...

If there were that many cranks on the 185 in the first place !

 

[coxxy]

156470/73/97 and 98. Somebody did put pics up at the time but it was a few years ago. Think they were on an old forum that used to exist years ago. The stickers were attached on the toilet wall.

Ahhh yes it was the angel trains 156's that had the off green coloured seats and the brown carpeted walls at the end of the saloon..

 

[pemma]

I don't think any TPE passenger would complain about added capacity even if it was Pacers - the overcrowding problem really is beyond a joke.

If "Average Joe" suddenly finds a train with a seat where previously he was always stood in a vestibule, he won't give a stuff what doors are on the carriage.

Not every TPE service has a shortage of seats and those that do rarely do from the origin station to the destination station. Overcrowding certainly isn't common between Scarborough and York, so if every passenger is happy with mk3s replacing 185s then it would suggest some passengers think 185s are rubbish or an inappropriate type of train for the services they run. Southport passengers certainly weren't 100% happy with 2 x 142 formations replacing single 156s, so tripled up 142s replacing single 185s would likely also get complaints and that's presuming 142s could run in 185 paths!

 

[pemma]

Cant remember specifics but believe it was a couple of 156's that Northern sent over.. Think this happened around the time Northern started to receive the 150's from London Midland a couple of years back.

EMT had been due to get 3 x 153s but they proved to DfT that they needed more than just 3 extra carriages so DfT decided Northern could send them 4 x 156s and get some LM 150s as replacements. At that point Northern had refreshed the ex-FNW 156s but not touched the ex-ATN 156s other than giving them an external repaint. The ex-FNW 156s were from the same ROSCO as the existing EMT 156s but Northern weren't prepared to released 156s that had just refreshed.

 

[Domh245]

I've found an example of one of the stickers, but no interior shots

 

[hibtastic]

Not every TPE service has a shortage of seats and those that do rarely do from the origin station to the destination station. Overcrowding certainly isn't common between Scarborough and York, so if every passenger is happy with mk3s replacing 185s then it would suggest some passengers think 185s are rubbish or an inappropriate type of train for the services they run. Southport passengers certainly weren't 100% happy with 2 x 142 formations replacing single 156s, so tripled up 142s replacing single 185s would likely also get complaints and that's presuming 142s could run in 185 paths!

Speaking as a daily TPE user, more seats no matter what form they are in would be welcome. The overcrowding on the core TPE routes is ludicrous and an absolute scandal that it’s been allowed to get this bad. That and the punctuality on the line, particularly lately mean it’s a pretty awful service .

I feel sorry for the great TPE staff having to apologise day in day out to passengers.

 

[Chester1]

Speaking as a daily TPE user, more seats no matter what form they are in would be welcome. The overcrowding on the core TPE routes is ludicrous and an absolute scandal that it’s been allowed to get this bad. That and the punctuality on the line, particularly lately mean it’s a pretty awful service .

I feel sorry for the great TPE staff having to apologise day in day out to passengers.

I agree. I am hoping an extra couple of 185s are put on South TP because of this. Obviously the big event will be the Mark V introduction in August but any extra capacity will be welcome. At peak times a 5 carriage Mark III set will be a huge improvement on a single 185.

 

[pemma]

I agree. I am hoping an extra couple of 185s are put on South TP because of this. Obviously the big event will be the Mark V introduction in August but any extra capacity will be welcome. At peak times a 5 carriage Mark III set will be a huge improvement on a single 185.

They won't. The mk3 sets and the units currently being subleased to Northern are needed to allow the North TPE enhancements - the extra Manchester to Leeds service and extending all Airport-York services to Newcastle. All TPE Manchester-Sheffield services are expected to be 6 car once the new stock is in service.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Will even six cars be enough for some services?

 

[47802]

Not every TPE service has a shortage of seats and those that do rarely do from the origin station to the destination station. Overcrowding certainly isn't common between Scarborough and York, so if every passenger is happy with mk3s replacing 185s then it would suggest some passengers think 185s are rubbish or an inappropriate type of train for the services they run. Southport passengers certainly weren't 100% happy with 2 x 142 formations replacing single 156s, so tripled up 142s replacing single 185s would likely also get complaints and that's presuming 142s could run in 185 paths!

Oh yes 142's on TPE services that would be a bit unwanted Nostalgia BR at its worst.