Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[ianhr]

At last, the first pre-electrification bridgeworks east of the Pennines (or indeed east of Stalybridge)!

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...tart-of-transformation-of-trans-pennine-route

Yes at last indeed! About 2 years behind schedule. At the present rate of progress we might see Neville Hill-Colton Jct electrified by late 2020 as the NW schemes seem to take about 5 years from the first civil engineering preps to switch on of the OHLE. This would at least be a start and allow the Leeds-York locals to be worked by the spare capacity in West Yorkshire's 321/322/333 fleet + perhaps the EC Leeds-Scotland train + EC diversions.

Leeds-Stalybridge by 2030?!

 

[deltic08]

The press release says
"These bridges cross the lines between Leeds and York and between Leeds and Normanton. "

Er no.
I suspect they meant to say between York and Normanton.
Pretty poor really. Makes the manager quoted look like an idiot.

Idiot or not Phil Verster needs to learn public relation skills. He ignores letters from the general public about genuine concerns from his press releases.

 

[Ploughman]

In the case of track lowers.
I hope that sense prevails and that if you have 4 - 5 consecutive bridges fairly close together you go down once and carry on through all the bridges and do not go down and come up at each bridge.
We had 4 in a row (I think) between Shipley and Frizinghall on the Leeds NW in 1992-3
We had to go down at each bridge and come back up. The line looked like a Roller Coaster afterwards.
In the end 1 panel of track between 2 of the bridges had been undisturbed except for tamping etc.
That is what was decreed by HQ to a CEDG design so we had to comply.

 

[Ploughman]

Idiot or not Phil Verster needs to learn public relation skills. He ignores letters from the general public about genuine concerns from his press releases.

He will not be bothered anymore. He has moved on to Scotland.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Will there be a photo log of all transpennine work as in the Liverpool - Manchester thread?

 

[WatcherZero]

In the case of track lowers.
I hope that sense prevails and that if you have 4 - 5 consecutive bridges fairly close together you go down once and carry on through all the bridges and do not go down and come up at each bridge.
We had 4 in a row (I think) between Shipley and Frizinghall on the Leeds NW in 1992-3
We had to go down at each bridge and come back up. The line looked like a Roller Coaster afterwards.
In the end 1 panel of track between 2 of the bridges had been undisturbed except for tamping etc.
That is what was decreed by HQ to a CEDG design so we had to comply.

If they have a long line closure it makes sense to do that though its costly, if they can only work with evening and weekend possessions though unlikely and would just be rectified gradually during future renewals.

 

[ianhr]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Will there be a photo log of all transpennine work as in the Liverpool - Manchester thread?

Well there won't be anything much to put on it for a long time yet, as it appears TP electrification has now been put back until the 2020's........if ever!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well there won't be anything much to put on it for a long time yet, as it appears TP electrification has now been put back until the 2020's........if ever!

No electricity for the Northern Powerhouse....time to go to the back of the cupboard for that old box of gas mantles...

 

[Ploughman]

Well there won't be anything much to put on it for a long time yet, as it appears TP electrification has now been put back until the 2020's........if ever!

But bridge works still carry on? Bolton Percy over Easter.

 

[snowball]

But bridge works still carry on? Bolton Percy over Easter.

Yes. Just the estimated completion date of the whole scheme has slipped dramatically - was the end of 2018, now "the early 2020s".

 

[BantamMenace]

Do we even though if they're going to start at Stalybridge and go east or Colton junction and go west yet?

Common sense says fill Neville Hill to Colton Junction in first and then extend to Hambleton jnc and on to Selby before you go west of Leeds, relatively speaking those bits appear the simplest for the biggest gains.

 

[snowball]

Do we even though if they're going to start at Stalybridge and go east or Colton junction and go west yet?

Well, the first two bridges to be dealt with anywhere east of Stalybridge are the two bridges nearest York, so that probably tells us. See post #140.

Also it was reported long ago that they'd be working west from either York or Selby or both.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes. Just the estimated completion date of the whole scheme has slipped dramatically - was the end of 2018, now "the early 2020s".

Has the time period for major cross-London rail projects also suffered from the same time extension?

 

[po8crg]

Thameslink 2000 is due for completion in 2018, so 18 years late.

 

[edwin_m]

Electrifying the part east of Leeds provides electrified alternative routes between Doncaster and Leeds or York, and also an electric link between Leeds and York which is probably handy for VTEC wanting to get anything northwards from Neville Hill. It's also a relatively easy section to wire up with relatively few bridges.

On the other hand there is very little benefit from electrifying south-west from Leeds until it gets all the way to Stalybridge. It might be possible to convert some east side stoppers to EMUs once it got to Huddersfield, but this would probably involve changing timetables and diagrams (and increasing operating costs) to avoid interworking with other routes. This is also the section with the major tunnels and possible need for speed/capacity upgrades.

So it makes sense to focus on east of Leeds (and west of Stalybridge) first.

 

[ianhr]

Electrifying the part east of Leeds provides electrified alternative routes between Doncaster and Leeds or York, and also an electric link between Leeds and York which is probably handy for VTEC wanting to get anything northwards from Neville Hill. It's also a relatively easy section to wire up with relatively few bridges.



So it makes sense to focus on east of Leeds (and west of Stalybridge) first.

That is the way that BR might have looked at it but I am not confident that the present fragmented railway industry is capable of anything so logical. I think they tend to hold back from any commitment until the total plan can be signed off and all 'stakeholders' are happy. The risk is that this takes so long that the entire project gets cancelled due a change in political priorities.

 

[pemma]

Thameslink 2000 is due for completion in 2018, so 18 years late.

But there have been interim measures like more 319s and 377s allowing improvements to be made.

The Ordsall Chord (more relevant to this thread) is being delivered over 30 years later than originally proposed.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Thameslink 2000 is due for completion in 2018, so 18 years late.

It was never due to be finished for 2000, but you're right that it's extremely late.

 

[Class 170101]

Crossrail full completeion has been delayed from 2018 to 2019 as it saves money apparently. Though that too you could argue is several years late. (Too late?)

 

[snowball]

Two big cranes are out today under the big sky of Bolton Percy - one for each of the two bridge sites. They're 1000-tonne, two-jib affairs.

The old bridges were still being dismantled when I was there, but they clearly intend to place the main elements of the new bridges during this two-day closure. I walked past two parked lorries carrying parapet sections, and as I set off home I passed two lorries bringing in steel beams.

 

[AE]

It was never due to be finished for 2000, but you're right that it's extremely late.

When British Rail first proposed the Thameslink expansion in the early 1990s, due to the success of the reopened Snow Hill Tunnel, it was named Thameslink 2000 precisely because it was planned to be completed by the year 2000.

As the delays mounted, and it became clear that it wouldn't even be started by the year 2000, the 2000 part of the name was dropped.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Two big cranes are out today under the big sky of Bolton Percy - one for each of the two bridge sites. They're 1000-tonne, two-jib affairs.

The old bridges were still being dismantled when I was there, but they clearly intend to place the main elements of the new bridges during this two-day closure. I walked past two parked lorries carrying parapet sections, and as I set off home I passed two lorries bringing in steel beams.

How far away is the bridge from the site of Bolton Percy railway station that closed 50 years ago in 1965?

 

[class 9]

One of the bridges is the last one before Colton South Jct, the other one is the bridge at the site of Bolton Percy station.

 

[snowball]

There's a very interesting article in Modern Railways, April 2015, pp. 66-71, by Richard Pollard. It's about the challenge of designing overhead electrification in the presence of listed bridges and buildings, and mentions examples from several lines.

I hope people will forgive me for posting this in several threads. I'm doing it because there may be people who only read the thread about their favourite line.

 

[Ploughman]

How far away is the bridge from the site of Bolton Percy railway station that closed 50 years ago in 1965?

Paul.
Bolton Percy is at approx 7m 50ch while Brumber Hill is approx at 6m 60ch or so.
Colton South Up Normanton crossover South end is at approx 6m 40ch.

 

[34D]

55 to be precise, between Stalybridge and York via Leeds.

Of those, there are a few full deck replacements (not many), plenty of parapet extensions and anti-trespass steelwork, and a few track lowers.

The two at Easter are full deck replacements at NOC/15 and NOC/13, Bolton Percy and Brumber Hill respectively.

Is a list of these 55 and the required solution, if known, please?

 

[snowball]

Pictures of the Bolton Percy bridges on NR's Northern Programme Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP

 

[61653 HTAFC]

On the "Todmorden Curve" thread, there's been discussion of the impact Transpennine electrification will have on the proposed improvements for the Calder Valley line in the Northern ITT. Some of the current electrification schemes have encountered infrastructure which has required complex solutions (Farnworth tunnel being the obvious example)...

As a layman, I can see that the tunnels between Huddersfield and Stalybridge would require blockade(s) of some degree, as well as Morley tunnel and the Heaton Lodge dive-under East of Huddersfield. Are there any concrete plans as to how to manage the work? It's a shame the electrification superceded the plan to reopen at least one of the disused bores at Standedge, as this would allow a limited service to operate via a single line, similar to what is happening at Farnworth.

 

[Class377/5]

But there have been interim measures like more 319s and 377s allowing improvements to be made.

The Ordsall Chord (more relevant to this thread) is being delivered over 30 years later than originally proposed.

The extra 319s and 377 introduction were planned add part of the project just like the addition of the 350s on TPE. So both projects have recurved improvements that were planned.

Both Thameslink and TransPennie have both suffered delays during the going live stage. Is often forgotten (week wiped from the web) that when the Thameslink Programme stated in 2008, the completion date was December 2015. The infrastructure works have been delayed (as well as the fleet) so completion is now December 2018. TransPennie is currently being delayed just no real timetable had been given.

 

[55z]

It is planed at some stage to close Standege Tunnel for 3 months not only to putting up the knitting in the tunnel but to sort out the aquaduct at the Marsden end which has restricted clearances. TP electrification is due to follow on from the GW scheme with the same gangs but how long is a piece of string as to when the GW scheme will be finished.

 

[TheKnightWho]

It is planed at some stage to close Standege Tunnel for 3 months not only to putting up the knitting in the tunnel but to sort out the aquaduct at the Marsden end which has restricted clearances. TP electrification is due to follow on from the GW scheme with the same gangs but how long is a piece of string as to when the GW scheme will be finished.

Before or after the Valley lines? Or are they a separate scheme designed to be completed by a separate gang from when the MML finishes alongside TP. Would make sense, as the GW scheme finishes first but TP provides larger operational benefits than the Valleys.