Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[rich r]

There was a lot of clearing about 18 months ago in the Garforth/Micklefield/South Milford area - and the posters said it was for the upcoming electrification works

Though obviously that never happened so the trees and shrubs are nicely growing back...

 

[Class 170101]

But if it is starting why has there been no announcement that the work is going ahead?

Unless I've missed it there is nothing in the Rules of the Route either for next year in connection with these blocks either.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

I hope it is in order to post this, but I happened across a cab ride video that seems to cover a fair amount of the route under discussion in this thread (the infamous houses at Mossley are about 38 minutes in)...

 

[matacaster]

Platform 7 at Huddersfield used to be very short, possibly used for light engine awaiting a service?
Was it always that short or was it truncated to allow (now disused?) Signal building to be built?
Could defunct signalling building be demolished and platform 7 be reinstated or would it still be too short (or awkward for pathing) for Sheffield service?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Platform 7 at Huddersfield used to be very short, possibly used for light engine awaiting a service?
Was it always that short or was it truncated to allow (now disused?) Signal building to be built?
Could defunct signalling building be demolished and platform 7 be reinstated or would it still be too short (or awkward for pathing) for Sheffield service?

I like your thinking but I would demolish it, then move the waiting room, toilets and cafe they're in order to lengthen platforms 5 & 6.

Although isn't the aim for four through platforms ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I like your thinking but I would demolish it, then move the waiting room, toilets and cafe they're in order to lengthen platforms 5 & 6.

Although isn't the aim for four through platforms ?

The plan posted a couple of pages back showed 5 & 6 removed/filled in, with 2 being the only existing bay to survive. A new north/east facing full-length bay provided (along with a 4th through platform) on the site of the current stabling sidings.
Parts of the island platform are grade 2* listed, but I'm not sure if the listing includes the signal box structure.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The plan posted a couple of pages back showed 5 & 6 removed/filled in, with 2 being the only existing bay to survive. A new north/east facing full-length bay provided (along with a 4th through platform) on the site of the current stabling sidings.
Parts of the island platform are grade 2* listed, but I'm not sure if the listing includes the signal box structure.

I took the opportunity to pass through Huddersfield on Saturday night. After having a look at the train shed, without demolishing it and building a brand new one, it would be possible of achieving four through roads by moving P4 outwards towards P1 in order to reconfigure access to the subway, then extend 5 & 6 all the way through.

Although that would require all the existing buildings from waiting room to former signal box to be demolished. Im not sure if its they're is much point getting rid of 5 & 6.

 

[Ih8earlies]

Is there any scope to remove and rebuild the listed structures once all the platforms have been reconfigured?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is there any scope to remove and rebuild the listed structures once all the platforms have been reconfigured?

It's certainly possible... whether it's required or viable is another matter. The listing of various different aspects of the station complex is quite complicated:

The main building along platform 1 (including both pubs and the former stable block near where platform 3 once was) is Grade 1 listed. Even relatively minor alterations (such as when the concourse was enlarged and barriers installed) take a long time and a lot of paperwork.

The island platform buildings and structure of the overall roof are grade 2* listed. As I said before I'm not sure if this listing includes the signal box, but I'd guess not as it is neither pretty nor particularly significant.

 

[Halifaxlad]

According to the listing for the station building, it, the island platform building and the overall roof is grade 1 listed! As for the signal box they're is no mention of it although it will still require listed building consent due to its location. The wooden island buildings are specifically refereed to although NOT much is said about them.

"Buffet and Waiting Room between platforms 4 and 8 is a separate match-boarded structure with panelled pilasters, each taking paired brackets and cornice."

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1277385

Interestingly the fence between the public and staff car park is listed and has its own dedicated entry unlike the Water Tower, for which they're appears to be no mention of it being listed either in conjunction with the adjacent station nor on its own merit.

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1232086

 

[61653 HTAFC]

According to the listing for the station building, it, the island platform building and the overall roof is grade 1 listed! As for the signal box they're is no mention of it although it will still require listed building consent due to its location. The wooden island buildings are specifically refereed to although NOT much is said about them.

"Buffet and Waiting Room between platforms 4 and 8 is a separate match-boarded structure with panelled pilasters, each taking paired brackets and cornice."

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1277385

Interestingly the fence between the public and staff car park is listed and has its own dedicated entry unlike the Water Tower, for which they're appears to be no mention of it being listed either in conjunction with the adjacent station nor on its own merit.

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1232086

Thanks for the update and correction.

 

[LittleAH]

I took the opportunity to pass through Huddersfield on Saturday night. After having a look at the train shed, without demolishing it and building a brand new one, it would be possible of achieving four through roads by moving P4 outwards towards P1 in order to reconfigure access to the subway, then extend 5 & 6 all the way through.

Although that would require all the existing buildings from waiting room to former signal box to be demolished. Im not sure if its they're is much point getting rid of 5 & 6.

I believe Platform 5 is getting extended to house a 150, rather than just a two car pacer or a 153.

It would seem mad to get rid of the bay platforms even with the development, especially if TPE continue with the splitting of the stopping services.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I believe Platform 5 is getting extended to house a 150, rather than just a two car pacer or a 153.

It would seem mad to get rid of the bay platforms even with the development, especially if TPE continue with the splitting of the stopping services.

Platform 5 already takes a 2-car 150. It's a tight squeeze but I've seen one in there this year.

 

[Andyh82]

If they moved Platform 4 to be closer to Platform 1, then surely the bays 5 & 6 could be realigned/extended to accommodate slightly longer stock?

It’d be good if they could get on with doing something opposite Platform 8 as well, whether a new platform or a car park, or releasing the potential of the mill adjacent, that seems to have been on the agenda with no movement for years.

 

[Bantamzen]

I believe Platform 5 is getting extended to house a 150, rather than just a two car pacer or a 153.

It would seem mad to get rid of the bay platforms even with the development, especially if TPE continue with the splitting of the stopping services.

If you look at the proposed 4 tracking east of Huddersfield back at post #2048, you'll see that the new fast lines on the southern part of the alignment will use only 2 of the proposed 6 platforms at Huddersfield, so forgetting P2 as this faces west, there will still be two through & one long bay platform available for use by the stoppers & on a better alignment with the new slow lines. That should be more than adequate not only for current service patterns, but future & longer ones too.

 

[Tim_UK]

It’d be good if they could get on with doing something opposite Platform 8 as well, whether a new platform or a car park, or releasing the potential of the mill adjacent, that seems to have been on the agenda with no movement for years.

The mill (and car park) is owned by an investor who is keen to put it to good use. It is not as empty as it looks. There are onsite staff. It has been re-roofed and basic structural work done a few years ago. Just keeping it watertight an investment of over £1M. It is an amazing building to go for a walk around in.

A number of anchor tenants were interested.

They are very much in touch with network rail. I suspect, from what they told me about their plans, that no movement will happen until plans for the station are complete.

The current (rough surface) car park never fills up.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

The mill (and car park) is owned by an investor who is keen to put it to good use. It is not as empty as it looks. There are onsite staff. It has been re-roofed and basic structural work done a few years ago. Just keeping it watertight an investment of over £1M. It is an amazing building to go for a walk around in.

A number of anchor tenants were interested.

They are very much in touch with network rail. I suspect, from what they told me about their plans, that no movement will happen until plans for the station are complete.

The current (rough surface) car park never fills up.

It would do if you could access the station from it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If you look at the proposed 4 tracking east of Huddersfield back at post #2048, you'll see that the new fast lines on the southern part of the alignment will use only 2 of the proposed 6 platforms at Huddersfield, so forgetting P2 as this faces west, there will still be two through & one long bay platform available for use by the stoppers & on a better alignment with the new slow lines. That should be more than adequate not only for current service patterns, but future & longer ones too.

If we look to the post-upgrade situation (assuming the plan posted previously is enacted) there'll be the currently planned 6tph from Leeds to Manchester (including the 2 semi-fasts). Terminating from the north/east will be 1tph from Castleford, 1tph from Leeds via Bradford and hopefully an (at least) hourly EMU stopper from Leeds via Dewsbury. This latter could allow the 6th TPE to drop stops at lesser-used stations such as Ravensthorpe and Deighton.

The question then is whether there will be capacity to terminate 3 or 4 trains per hour from the East at HUD. The present timetable has 3, but can only accommodate the third by using P5 for the Castleford service. Whilst Northern will retain some units short enough to use P5, looking further into the future the 150s won't last forever and any replacement would be too long.

There is of course the possibility of using the new slow line platforms to turn units back (including any potential Manchester/Marsden to Huddersfield stopper), though this may impact any plan for a TPE fast to overtake a semi-fast at HUD.

 

[Spartacus]

With 4 tracks east of Huddersfield I can’t see why any overtaking would have to take place in the station. The stopper frequency won’t be high enough to prevent a semi-fast service using the slows too.

By the sound of things though it’s best to expect that the plan will start from a blank sheet of paper, especially as regards the stopper. We could return to the days of a Manchester stopper running through to Wakefield and then Castleford, or frankly anything.

 

[matacaster]

If we look to the post-upgrade situation (assuming the plan posted previously is enacted) there'll be the currently planned 6tph from Leeds to Manchester (including the 2 semi-fasts). Terminating from the north/east will be 1tph from Castleford, 1tph from Leeds via Bradford and hopefully an (at least) hourly EMU stopper from Leeds via Dewsbury. This latter could allow the 6th TPE to drop stops at lesser-used stations such as Ravensthorpe and Deighton.

The question then is whether there will be capacity to terminate 3 or 4 trains per hour from the East at HUD. The present timetable has 3, but can only accommodate the third by using P5 for the Castleford service. Whilst Northern will retain some units short enough to use P5, looking further into the future the 150s won't last forever and any replacement would be too long.

There is of course the possibility of using the new slow line platforms to turn units back (including any potential Manchester/Marsden to Huddersfield stopper), though this may impact any plan for a TPE fast to overtake a semi-fast at HUD.

Have you considered the impact of the proposed London trains?

 

[Glenn1969]

The proposed LNER Huddersfield service is one per day so I'm sure it can be fitted in

 

[matacaster]

The proposed LNER Huddersfield service is one per day so I'm sure it can be fitted in

Oh dear, didn't realise it was just one a day!

 

[Andyh82]

The proposed LNER Huddersfield service is one per day so I'm sure it can be fitted in

Although will it always be just once a day, once established, wouldnt a future franchise want to increase it like they are doing with Bradford and Harrogate.

 

[Glenn1969]

I think that will likely be post HS2 thinking

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Have you considered the impact of the proposed London trains?

The proposed LNER Huddersfield service is one per day so I'm sure it can be fitted in

The London service creates more issues with the present layout than it would under the proposed upgrade. With one service out in the early morning and a return in the evening it shouldn't be a massive problem but will require both a&b halves of platform 4 to start and finish.

Once upgraded, there should be capacity for a more frequent London service, if there's demand.

 

[AmateurRambler]

Platform 5 already takes a 2-car 150. It's a tight squeeze but I've seen one in there this year.

Platform 5 at Huddersfield is 39m long. Although it is true 150s have previously used platform 5 they are currently not being used on services booked to use this platform (or should not be at any rate).

 

[LittleAH]

Platform 5 at Huddersfield is 39m long. Although it is true 150s have previously used platform 5 they are currently not being used on services booked to use this platform (or should not be at any rate).

Yup - spot on, believe the old crossing is being pulled up from p4 to p1 and plat 5 extended in the near future.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

You mean the foot crossing? That's long gone. Disappeared when the lifts were built

 

[td97]

Potentially a new site compound at Ulleskelf with a handful of Murphy's Orangemen on site.

 

[Ploughman]

The establishment of a work compound was noted back in March.
Or is this another one?