Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[nr758123]

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/1bn-plans-transform-train-travel-16780752

Apparently this came ‘out of the blue’, think they haven’t been reading this thread.

It also reads as if there will be 5 years of continuous replacement coaches, is this right or will it actually be periods of time over 5 years?

The [Huddersfield] Examiner has very little idea of what is going on in their area.

If it’s not about

· That man who was shot in a police chase who definitely, definitely wasn’t a drug dealer

· The predictions of that ludicrous weatherman of theirs who is actually a florist

· The ale trail

Then they’re not interested.

Their idea of journalism is simply to trawl local facebook groups, but they don’t even do that very well.

I’m surprised they haven’t tried to turn this into an ale trail story, like they do with most things about the trains which come to their attention.

The stuff about five years of replacement coaches is their own interpretation of a leaked letter from Network Rail a year ago. That leaked letter was sent to most regional media outlets, including the Yorkshire Post, Bradford T&A, BBC and ITV Yorkshire. Whoever leaked that letter didn’t think it worth bothering with the Examiner, which is understandable.

A joke of a newspaper.

 

[edwin_m]

The North Trans Pennine project has been broken up into different stages, so Stalybridge to Huddersfield, Huddersfield to Ravensthorpe, Ravensthorpe to Leeds. There is some further info on this further up this thread.

But basically the plan is to wire from Huddersfield to Leeds, the Huddersfield to Ravensthorpe section will be four tracked, with the slow lines to the north & fast lines to the south of the track alignment. Then at Ravensthorpe the slow lines with dive under the fast, with the (wired) fast lines continuing to Leeds via Dewsbury. I believe this will then allow both Wakefield - Huddersfield & Leeds - Brighouse stopper services to pass through this section without snarling up the fast TransPennine services.

It surprises me they have used this arrangement. There is already a diveunder at Bradley that brings trains from Huddersfield to the north side of the layout. Grade separation at Ravensthorpe could take the southernmost track over or under* the Wakefield lines for trains from Leeds via Dewsbury. That way the Calder Valley via Dewsbury and Huddersfield-Wakefield could simply switch between adjacent tracks somewhere between these two junctions and avoid any conflict with moves in the other direction. Or for a cheaper option both tracks could use the Bradley diveunder, which was double track in the past, with the two pairs simply diverging at Ravensthorpe with no need for grade separation.

Is the configuration of tracks definite and are reasons for choosing it known?

*The NR consultation mentioned above says it could be a bridge or a tunnel.

 

[Senex]

It surprises me they have used this arrangement. There is already a diveunder at Bradley that brings trains from Huddersfield to the north side of the layout. Grade separation at Ravensthorpe could take the southernmost track over or under* the Wakefield lines for trains from Leeds via Dewsbury. That way the Calder Valley via Dewsbury and Huddersfield-Wakefield could simply switch between adjacent tracks somewhere between these two junctions and avoid any conflict with moves in the other direction. Or for a cheaper option both tracks could use the Bradley diveunder, which was double track in the past, with the two pairs simply diverging at Ravensthorpe with no need for grade separation.

Is the configuration of tracks definite and are reasons for choosing it known?

*The NR consultation mentioned above says it could be a bridge or a tunnel.

Doesn't putting the fast lines on the south side along the L&Y allow for a much higher speed at Heaton Lodge and probably also a higher speed at Ravensthorpe by allowing more space for the curve at Ravensthorpe that would be possible from the slows?

 

[Bantamzen]

It surprises me they have used this arrangement. There is already a diveunder at Bradley that brings trains from Huddersfield to the north side of the layout. Grade separation at Ravensthorpe could take the southernmost track over or under* the Wakefield lines for trains from Leeds via Dewsbury. That way the Calder Valley via Dewsbury and Huddersfield-Wakefield could simply switch between adjacent tracks somewhere between these two junctions and avoid any conflict with moves in the other direction. Or for a cheaper option both tracks could use the Bradley diveunder, which was double track in the past, with the two pairs simply diverging at Ravensthorpe with no need for grade separation.

Is the configuration of tracks definite and are reasons for choosing it known?

*The NR consultation mentioned above says it could be a bridge or a tunnel.

I don't think anything is finalised, however grade separation is seemingly key to bring speed improvements for longer distance services. This post from a couple of months ago gives more details of the proposals:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lectrification-cp6.88054/page-69#post-3997557

 

[edwin_m]

I don't think anything is finalised, however grade separation is seemingly key to bring speed improvements for longer distance services. This post from a couple of months ago gives more details of the proposals:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lectrification-cp6.88054/page-69#post-3997557

Thanks for that - it does appear to show the logic and the bit I had temporarily forgotten was the intention to continue the slow lines into Huddersfield. The crossing moves I mentioned do conflict with the other direction but they don't conflict with the fast services.

 

[Spartacus]

Doesn't putting the fast lines on the south side along the L&Y allow for a much higher speed at Heaton Lodge and probably also a higher speed at Ravensthorpe by allowing more space for the curve at Ravensthorpe that would be possible from the slows?

Not really. It’d be a much bigger job to put a dive under to have the slows on the south anyway as both up and down would have to go through it. The curve at Heaton Lodge for the fasts would probably be slower than planned too due to being very hemmed in. By putting the fasts on the south the fast curve at Heaton Lodge can take advantage of the former 4 track formation that used to be there. Having the slows to the North also works much better at Bradley Jn.

 

[Spartacus]

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

According to the Examiner, Network Rail plan to 'double the width of the tracks'. Brunel would be delighted!

I think you mean George Stephenson, who built the original Manchester & Leeds (Calder Valley) route.
The route being 4-tracked was 4-tracked before BR downsized it in the 1970s, although it might need further widening in places to achieve the speeds desired, particularly for the grade separation at Ravensthorpe.

The text I have seen says this is all going out to public consultation, with a T&W Act in late 2020 and a project start in 2022.
So much for the urgent Northern Powerhouse Rail project.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...ion-on-trans-pennine-route-modernisation.html

UK: Network Rail is to begin public consultation this summer on plans to rebuild and electrify a 13 km section of the trans-Pennine corridor between Manchester and York via Leeds.
The plans form part of the infrastructure manager’s £2·9bn Transpennine Upgrade programme, which is intended to modernise the route by adding capacity, partial electrification, deploying ETCS and digital traffic management tools.
The work would be undertaken by the Transpire alliance of BAM Nuttall, Amey and Arup under the West of Leeds Alliance contract awarded in April 2017.
The upcoming consultation covers the 13 km between Huddersfield and Westtown near Dewsbury. NR is proposing to restore a four-track alignment, enhance and in some cases rebuild stations at Huddersfield, Deighton, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe, and install 25 kV 50 Hz electrification.
Grade separation of a junction at Ravensthorpe is also proposed with either a flyover or dive-under

 

[takno]

I think you mean George Stephenson, who built the original Manchester & Leeds (Calder Valley) route.
The route being 4-tracked was 4-tracked before BR downsized it in the 1970s, although it might need further widening in places to achieve the speeds desired, particularly for the grade separation at Ravensthorpe.

The text I have seen says this is all going out to public consultation, with a T&W Act in late 2020 and a project start in 2022.
So much for the urgent Northern Powerhouse Rail project.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...ion-on-trans-pennine-route-modernisation.html

Did George Stephenson originally build it in broad gauge then?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The text I have seen says this is all going out to public consultation, with a T&W Act in late 2020 and a project start in 2022.
So much for the urgent Northern Powerhouse Rail project.

Indeed - it was supposed to finish by then. I can still see this getting kicked into the long grass due to Brexit etc.
I hope other stuff starts before then e.g. Leeds- York and Selby and Miles Platting to Stalybridge.

 

[hwl]

Indeed - it was supposed to finish by then. I can still see this getting kicked into the long grass due to Brexit etc.
I hope other stuff starts before then e.g. Leeds- York and Selby and Miles Platting to Stalybridge.

Is there any thought on the division of TPU into the various sub projects as regards needing TWAO (and 2-3 years before start) and non TWAO for quicker start and completion (by the time the TWAO have been granted)?

 

[Andyh82]

Not just the examiner, the BBC News are reporting on this story today as well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-49404824

I’m not entirely sure why they are electrifying a middle section of the TPE route surrounded by non wired sections, and how that would result in the wires being used to their full potential.

But in any case, until a shovel goes into the ground I’m sceptical that it was actually happen, there have been too many false dawns.

 

[edwin_m]

Is there any thought on the division of TPU into the various sub projects as regards needing TWAO (and 2-3 years before start) and non TWAO for quicker start and completion (by the time the TWAO have been granted)?

That may well be the intention - it was suggested further up that between the northern end of these works and Leeds, everything might be within the existing boundary so probably not requiring TWAO.

 

[Glenn1969]

Presume the 2022 start date for the works at Huddersfield end will mean no 39 week blockade in 2020 as was suggested upthread and a delay to Upgrade completion into CP7 (after 2024) ?

 

[hwl]

That may well be the intention - it was suggested further up that between the northern end of these works and Leeds, everything might be within the existing boundary so probably not requiring TWAO.

I had similar suspicions about splitting Leeds - York up as well.
The interesting bit is whether there is anything needing a TWAO from Man Vic to Stalybridge (some of the station works but possibly DCO the best route there?)

 

[swt_passenger]

I had similar suspicions about splitting Leeds - York up as well.
The interesting bit is whether there is anything needing a TWAO from Man Vic to Stalybridge (some of the station works but possibly DCO the best route there?)

Maybe they wanted to keep it in small chunks just in case Chris Grayling got scared by a large application and filed it under “ignore this”. Like P15/16...

 

[alistairlees]

I think you mean George Stephenson, who built the original Manchester & Leeds (Calder Valley) route.
The route being 4-tracked was 4-tracked before BR downsized it in the 1970s, although it might need further widening in places to achieve the speeds desired, particularly for the grade separation at Ravensthorpe.

The text I have seen says this is all going out to public consultation, with a T&W Act in late 2020 and a project start in 2022.
So much for the urgent Northern Powerhouse Rail project.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...ion-on-trans-pennine-route-modernisation.html

From memory it was four tracks from Healey Mills via Ravensthorpe to Heaton Lodge Junction until at least 1985. The number of tracks from Healey Mills to Ravensthorpe was then reduced to two, with Ravensthorpe to Heaton Lodge being three, and the diveunder at Heaton Lodge being singled so as to be for Leeds-bound trains only. And I think it's stayed pretty much that way ever since.

 

[edwin_m]

From memory it was four tracks from Healey Mills via Ravensthorpe to Heaton Lodge Junction until at least 1985. The number of tracks from Healey Mills to Ravensthorpe was then reduced to two, with Ravensthorpe to Heaton Lodge being three, and the diveunder at Heaton Lodge being singled so as to be for Leeds-bound trains only. And I think it's stayed pretty much that way ever since.

My recollection supports that. As a graduate trainee I was taken on a tour of the area by the local civil engineer in 1988 and Heaton Lodge was pretty new at the time, with the three track layout he described as "bloody dangerous" (track safety wasn't such an issue then and I recall having to move pretty quickly to get out of the way of a 56 on a blind curve on the Up line). It struck me as an odd layout even at the time, with the bi-directional middle track effectively an extended diamond crossing for Ravensthorpe acting as a capacity killer. Although the Heaton Lodge diveunder avoided conflicts there the older layout was arguably better in that nearly everything via Huddersfield went via Dewsbury so could have done with being on the north side in both directions.

 

[matacaster]

With the planned START date on this section now 2022, when do we think NPR will start and finish? (NEVER is the most likely and as for a Bradford central station with much tunnelling, well!)

 

[Spartacus]

I’m not entirely sure why they are electrifying a middle section of the TPE route surrounded by non wired sections, and how that would result in the wires being used to their full potential.

The bit nearly everyone seems to be missing, journalists and enthusiants alike.

Electrification of the railway from Huddersfield to Ravensthorpe – and right through to Leeds.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...te-upgrade/huddersfield-to-westtown-dewsbury/

 

[Andyh82]

Are they wiring up Leeds to York and Manchester to Huddersfield as well?

 

[Glenn1969]

Not Huddersfield- Stalybridge as far as we know

 

[Spartacus]

We don’t really need to go into it again as it’s been done numerous times before, but there’s one or two spots where total electrification would be awkward.

Anyway, personally I’m all in favour of it remaining a hybrid railway as it would mean stock would still have the ability to be diverted via alternative routes during disruption, via Hebden Bridge, Wakefield Kirkgate and Castleford in the main.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With regard to Heaton Lodge: the dive under looks pretty tight clearance-wise, so if the slows are being wired (it'd be crazy not to) the trackbed will need to be lowered or the bridge reconstructed. The kinks in the alignment on the plan suggest that the existing alignment of the current down Huddersfield through the dive under is being retained.

 

[Glenn1969]

Politicians and stakeholders want Calder Valley electrification to follow the Upgrade in CP7. I can see the benefits but am dubious about whether it will happen

 

[matacaster]

On the plan kindly supplied by Spartacus, it looks suspiciously like platform 1 for penistone line is planned to be where it was originally (ie where the stranded coach is now used by a men's group) and go through reopened south tunnel.
Previous terminating platforms 3, 7 and current terminating platforms 5, 6 disappear.
Current platform 8 and new platform 9 are s!ow through and new 10 is terminator.

Please correct if I am wrong!

 

[158756]

If they are going to go to the expense of relocating Ravensthorpe station will something be done to increase usage? The potential for park and ride doesn't look great to me but maybe some extra traffic could be attracted. It'll be a lot of money to spend on less than 40,000 passengers annually.

 

[matacaster]

If they are going to go to the expense of relocating Ravensthorpe station will something be done to increase usage? The potential for park and ride doesn't look great to me but maybe some extra traffic could be attracted. It'll be a lot of money to spend on less than 40,000 passengers annually.

It would likely attract more passengers if it wasn't anywhere near Ravensthorpe.

 

[Spartacus]

If they are going to go to the expense of relocating Ravensthorpe station will something be done to increase usage? The potential for park and ride doesn't look great to me but maybe some extra traffic could be attracted. It'll be a lot of money to spend on less than 40,000 passengers annually.

For the first time Ravensthorpe station will have trains to Wakefield, which might help. Kirklees Council are doing their best to build on large areas of green belt near the station too
The relocation’s needed to enable a dive under to be built anyway and where it’s going to be should allow a good sized car park, something lacking at the current location which it really does need being some way from the centre of Ravensthorpe and even further from it’s main residential area.

 

[Killingworth]

With the planned START date on this section now 2022, when do we think NPR will start and finish? (NEVER is the most likely and as for a Bradford central station with much tunnelling, well!)

The much smaller Hope Valley scheme had 3 rounds of public consultation followed by a public inquiry. It was originally supposed to be in operation by September 2018 for trains to be timetabled by December 2018. No spades in ground until 2021. Completion by 2023 is now looking likely.

Those with doubts about any rail scheme have plenty of precedents on which to base their pessimism.

Rail projects rarely go as quickly as suggested. Brunel and Stephenson had their share of setbacks but I still marvel that in 1850 London and Edinburgh were connected by rail, only 25 years after Stockton & Darlington. By the 1890s electrified railways were being built. The Swiss have been running electric railways in tunnels under and up mountains ever since then.

I hope Northern Powerhouse Rail can get the many major projects on its wish list moving. Over the next 25 years there's an immense amount of work to be done, added to HS2 and anything else. Lots of opportunities for anyone wanting a career in the various roles that should be demanded.