Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[B Box]

As published in The Times on 12 Feb 2020 as part of the HS2 announcement article:

'A series of upgrades of existing lines will also be revealed by the government in the coming weeks, including a commitment to fully electrify the trans- Pennine line from Manchester to Leeds and York. The scheme has been on hold for years, amid speculation that only part of the route would be converted to electric power, with operators relying on “hybrid” trains to navigate the line.

It is believed that the government will press ahead with the full £2.9 billion electrification project to underline its commitment to the north.'

 

[SuperNova]

As published in The Times on 12 Feb 2020 as part of the HS2 announcement article:

'A series of upgrades of existing lines will also be revealed by the government in the coming weeks, including a commitment to fully electrify the trans- Pennine line from Manchester to Leeds and York. The scheme has been on hold for years, amid speculation that only part of the route would be converted to electric power, with operators relying on “hybrid” trains to navigate the line.

It is believed that the government will press ahead with the full £2.9 billion electrification project to underline its commitment to the north.'

Interesting - I do wonder how they'll solve the issues around Mossley though given how close the house are!

 

[59CosG95]

Interesting - I do wonder how they'll solve the issues around Mossley though given how close the house are!

Possibly TTCs on the western side of the cutting there, with the 'nose' fixtures at the end used to support wire mesh rather than a lower span wire. That's my guess, as similar arrangements were made on the Cross-City in B'ham between Five Ways & University, where the Worcs & Brum Canal is practically cheek-by-jowl with the line.

(Although the TTCs there were built with spanwires, which they still have)

 

[nr758123]

As published in The Times on 12 Feb 2020 as part of the HS2 announcement article:

'A series of upgrades of existing lines will also be revealed by the government in the coming weeks, including a commitment to fully electrify the trans- Pennine line from Manchester to Leeds and York. The scheme has been on hold for years, amid speculation that only part of the route would be converted to electric power, with operators relying on “hybrid” trains to navigate the line.

It is believed that the government will press ahead with the full £2.9 billion electrification project to underline its commitment to the north.'

Good news if true, though I never understood how anyone could ever have thought it was a good idea not to bother electrifying the hilly section of the route. If the full route is to be electrified it's difficult to see how they could avoid also sorting disability access at Marsden, Greenfield and Mossley.

 

[WAO]

Is that the unelectrified bit between leeds and york from Neville hill junction next to the depot in leeds?

Not quite, IIUC.
It's the stretch from Colton Jn (ECML) (5m41c) to Church Fenton S Jn (10m66c) that's common to HS3 and TP.

IMHO it tips the balance in favour of further wiring.

WAO

 

[nr758123]

Interesting - I do wonder how they'll solve the issues around Mossley though given how close the house are!

I think they are shops facing Manchester Road with houses above. They are not exactly high value properties, so within the scale of a £2.9bn project compulsory purchase and demolition would not be a big cost. Then perhaps a redevelopment of the site incorporating new station facilities, possibly retail and housing, and possibly replacing the current eastbound platform with a new platform to the south of the Stamford Road bridge.

 

[Bantamzen]

As published in The Times on 12 Feb 2020 as part of the HS2 announcement article:

'A series of upgrades of existing lines will also be revealed by the government in the coming weeks, including a commitment to fully electrify the trans- Pennine line from Manchester to Leeds and York. The scheme has been on hold for years, amid speculation that only part of the route would be converted to electric power, with operators relying on “hybrid” trains to navigate the line.

It is believed that the government will press ahead with the full £2.9 billion electrification project to underline its commitment to the north.'

Well hopefully that is the news the route has needed all along.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Not quite, IIUC.
It's the stretch from Colton Jn (ECML) (5m41c) to Church Fenton S Jn (10m66c) that's common to HS3 and TP.

IMHO it tips the balance in favour of further wiring.

This is key imho. We have seen the announcements about Huddersfield to Leeds being fully electrified along with other improvements. This is another piece of the jigsaw. Clearly a project that is being done in stages and presumably to plan carefully and contain costs.

 

[edwin_m]

I think they are shops facing Manchester Road with houses above. They are not exactly high value properties, so within the scale of a £2.9bn project compulsory purchase and demolition would not be a big cost. Then perhaps a redevelopment of the site incorporating new station facilities, possibly retail and housing, and possibly replacing the current eastbound platform with a new platform to the south of the Stamford Road bridge.

Looking at Google the really close ones are terraced houses, one showing up as a tattoo parlour and a "home improvement centre" at the end of the terrace. The other shops are a tiny bit further from the railway as the road diverges towards the station.

Having said that I think the dentist I went to as a child must be somewhere round there - although I think I would have remembered hearing the trains. If any locals can recall where Beswick dentists was I'd be interested to hear.

I agree they should be CPO'd as they must be cramped enough already without the imposition of whatever is needed to protect the residents from electrocution at the back.

 

[AndrewE]

Looking at Google the really close ones are terraced houses, one showing up as a tattoo parlour and a "home improvement centre" at the end of the terrace. The other shops are a tiny bit further from the railway as the road diverges towards the station.

Having said that I think the dentist I went to as a child must be somewhere round there - although I think I would have remembered hearing the trains. If any locals can recall where Beswick dentists was I'd be interested to hear.

I agree they should be CPO'd as they must be cramped enough already without the imposition of whatever is needed to protect the residents from electrocution at the back.

Someone said (alleged?) - about a thousand posts back! - that lots of the houses in that block were owned by the MP which was the problem. Hopefully with the blue tide (silver linings and all that) he is one that has lost his seat! Even if not, I hope he or she sees the error of their ways.

 

[SuperNova]

Someone said (alleged?) - about a thousand posts back! - that lots of the houses in that block were owned by the MP which was the problem. Hopefully with the blue tide (silver linings and all that) he is one that has lost his seat! Even if not, I hope he or she sees the error of their ways.

I doubt that as it's Labour MP Jonathan Reynolds.

 

[SuperNova]

I think they are shops facing Manchester Road with houses above. They are not exactly high value properties, so within the scale of a £2.9bn project compulsory purchase and demolition would not be a big cost. Then perhaps a redevelopment of the site incorporating new station facilities, possibly retail and housing, and possibly replacing the current eastbound platform with a new platform to the south of the Stamford Road bridge.

This would be my preference. Would be nice to reallign the station slightly too as the eastbound platform isn't really fit for purpose given 6 car trains are due to stop at peaks.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Looking at Google the really close ones are terraced houses, one showing up as a tattoo parlour and a "home improvement centre" at the end of the terrace. The other shops are a tiny bit further from the railway as the road diverges towards the station.

I agree they should be CPO'd as they must be cramped enough already without the imposition of whatever is needed to protect the residents from electrocution at the back.

I think these are what is meant. It is a youtube video by The PWI seminar - if you want to skip it appears at 41:15 approx

 

[Glenn1969]

I hope they do go for electrification in full. I'm just not convinced they will given the geography around Standedge- the tunnel may still get left out imho

 

[nr758123]

Someone said (alleged?) - about a thousand posts back! - that lots of the houses in that block were owned by the MP which was the problem. Hopefully with the blue tide (silver linings and all that) he is one that has lost his seat! Even if not, I hope he or she sees the error of their ways.

I'm fairly sure Jonathan Reynolds MP does not own these properties. Possibly a former MP, or an MP for somewhere else?

 

[nr758123]

Having said that I think the dentist I went to as a child must be somewhere round there - although I think I would have remembered hearing the trains. If any locals can recall where Beswick dentists was I'd be interested to hear.

There's a dentists on Stamford Road, part way up the hill towards Top Mossley.

 

[edwin_m]

There's a dentists on Stamford Road, part way up the hill towards Top Mossley.

I don't think that's the place - it was a terrace like the ones backing onto the railway. Though I guess they could have demolished it and built a new one, and Beswick must have retired long since.

 

[yorksrob]

As published in The Times on 12 Feb 2020 as part of the HS2 announcement article:

'A series of upgrades of existing lines will also be revealed by the government in the coming weeks, including a commitment to fully electrify the trans- Pennine line from Manchester to Leeds and York. The scheme has been on hold for years, amid speculation that only part of the route would be converted to electric power, with operators relying on “hybrid” trains to navigate the line.

It is believed that the government will press ahead with the full £2.9 billion electrification project to underline its commitment to the north.'

Now that's about time.

 

[Aictos]

Not quite, IIUC.
It's the stretch from Colton Jn (ECML) (5m41c) to Church Fenton S Jn (10m66c) that's common to HS3 and TP.

IMHO it tips the balance in favour of further wiring.

WAO

Thanks, surely it can’t be much further to wire up to Neville Hill in both infrastructure and costs?

Allowing Neville Hill to be accessed by electric trains from both York via the loop there and Leeds.

 

[Meerkat]

Thanks, surely it can’t be much further to wire up to Neville Hill in both infrastructure and costs?

Allowing Neville Hill to be accessed by electric trains from both York via the loop there and Leeds.

But you don’t want to do that without having a nailed down NPR route and decisions on whether you are going to do the desperately needed quadrupling, adding suburban stations etc

 

[Buspilot]

Fred Lill, a Solicitor I used to purchase my first house back in 1971, had his office in one of those properties. There was also a travel agent, Mossley Travel and a butchers

Looking at Google the really close ones are terraced houses, one showing up as a tattoo parlour and a "home improvement centre" at the end of the terrace. The other shops are a tiny bit further from the railway as the road diverges towards the station.

Having said that I think the dentist I went to as a child must be somewhere round there - although I think I would have remembered hearing the trains. If any locals can recall where Beswick dentists was I'd be interested to hear.

I agree they should be CPO'd as they must be cramped enough already without the imposition of whatever is needed to protect the residents from electrocution at the back.
[/Q
UOTE]

 

[hwl]

I hope they do go for electrification in full. I'm just not convinced they will given the geography around Standedge- the tunnel may still get left out imho

The geography isn't the issue. It was the extra time and disruption that was seen as reason for not doing it.

 

[CdBrux]

I thought the 2.9bn mentioned in the Times article quoted was essentially all taken by the Huddersfield to Leeds work and maybe also work at Stalybridge, leaving Stalybridge to Huddersfield electrification for another budget (and presumably later) and possibly Victoria to Stalybridge to be funded from another pot.

 

[hwl]

Thanks, surely it can’t be much further to wire up to Neville Hill in both infrastructure and costs?

Allowing Neville Hill to be accessed by electric trains from both York via the loop there and Leeds.

It is all about phasing to minimise disruption to services and allow diversionary routes to be used.
The intial phase allows the Hull Services to run unaffected.
It is also spade ready and the TPE 802 will be able to utilise it as soon as it is ready.
Teh work will be split so one 1 or 2 phases have significant disruption at a time so any many trains can be kept running overall.

The Neville Hill - Micklefield gap can be done next with diversion via Castlefordduring closures. If the first phase is split where possible then if Micklefield- Church Fenton is closed then diversion via Castleford is an option.

 

[CdBrux]

But you don’t want to do that without having a nailed down NPR route and decisions on whether you are going to do the desperately needed quadrupling, adding suburban stations etc

However NPR route will probably take a good few years to nail down and at least 10 or 15 years before work starts. Are you better of just 'getting electrification done' now and have to potentially modify it in 15 years time? There is a balance to be struck between having a fully integrated plan and getting on with some things.

 

[Aictos]

However NPR route will probably take a good few years to nail down and at least 10 or 15 years before work starts. Are you better of just 'getting electrification done' now and have to potentially modify it in 15 years time? There is a balance to be struck between having a fully integrated plan and getting on with some things.

Indeed, look at Bedford for example that was wired up in the 1980s and is now having the fast lines though the station and northbound plus the slow lines north of the station electrified.

It is all about phasing to minimise disruption to services and allow diversionary routes to be used.
The intial phase allows the Hull Services to run unaffected.
It is also spade ready and the TPE 802 will be able to utilise it as soon as it is ready.
Teh work will be split so one 1 or 2 phases have significant disruption at a time so any many trains can be kept running overall.

The Neville Hill - Micklefield gap can be done next with diversion via Castlefordduring closures. If the first phase is split where possible then if Micklefield- Church Fenton is closed then diversion via Castleford is an option.

I’m not too familiar with the area so thank you for explaining more.

 

[Bantamzen]

However NPR route will probably take a good few years to nail down and at least 10 or 15 years before work starts. Are you better of just 'getting electrification done' now and have to potentially modify it in 15 years time? There is a balance to be struck between having a fully integrated plan and getting on with some things.

Given that HS2 Phase 2b may not be delivered until as late as 2040 after all the consultation & planning for the best part of a decade, it is fairly safe to say NPR will not see the light of day until closer to 2050. So there's probably no value in hanging on any more, just get the job moving and worry about NPR mods in 15 years time, if at all (I remain very sceptical that it will ever happen).

 

[quantinghome]

Given that HS2 Phase 2b may not be delivered until as late as 2040 after all the consultation & planning for the best part of a decade, it is fairly safe to say NPR will not see the light of day until closer to 2050. So there's probably no value in hanging on any more, just get the job moving and worry about NPR mods in 15 years time, if at all (I remain very sceptical that it will ever happen).

If HS2 Phase 2b is being rolled into NPR under the 'High Speed North' banner then it lends itself to a phased implementation similar to Belgium's development of high speed rail. But I agree that in the meantime TRU needs to be cracked on with.

 

[59CosG95]

However NPR route will probably take a good few years to nail down and at least 10 or 15 years before work starts. Are you better of just 'getting electrification done' now and have to potentially modify it in 15 years time? There is a balance to be struck between having a fully integrated plan and getting on with some things.

Isn't there scope to quadruple Neville Hill - Micklefield? Or has that been debunked?

 

[59CosG95]

It is all about phasing to minimise disruption to services and allow diversionary routes to be used.
The intial phase allows the Hull Services to run unaffected.
It is also spade ready and the TPE 802 will be able to utilise it as soon as it is ready.
Teh work will be split so one 1 or 2 phases have significant disruption at a time so any many trains can be kept running overall.

The Neville Hill - Micklefield gap can be done next with diversion via Castleford during closures. If the first phase is split where possible then if Micklefield- Church Fenton is closed then diversion via Castleford is an option.

Wouldn't it therefore make sense to do the western half of the Church Fenton - Colton Jct route alongside Micklefield - Church Fenton, using TTCs on that side of the line only? Then the east side of Church Fenton - Colton, followed by Neville Hill - Micklefield?