Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Class 170101]

That's my understanding too, due to needing to reverse at Bradford Interchange. Diversions will be via Hope Valley or via Skipton, Hellifield & Clitheroe, paths permitting. Hellifield being somewhat quieter than Bradford for a run round and reverse!

Surely Carnforth and then Skipton would be easier than a reversal at Hellifield?

 

[Killingworth]

Maybe that's why Drax were lobbying for reopening Colne to Skipton then. Reversing needs either top-and-tailing (wasting payload and fuel) or the costs of a shunter/secondman to do the coupling for running round.

I'd say there was a low chance of significant quantities biomass using Hope Valley as there are inadequate paths to satisfy current demand for both passenger and freight. Network Rail won't have that resolved before late 2022 at the earliest. Blockages on that route for work to progress will also need to be carefully planned along with any others.

Completing SELRAP to offer alternative options before the other Pennine work begins sounds sensible. Unfortunately railway planning and project completion isn't quick and relying on that route being available maybe very optimistic.

Of course it's always possible projects can be completed ahead of schedule, but the next 5-10 years look challenging.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Deleted

 

[dggar]

Yes, I suppose the Preston - Lindsey could go via Man Picc and Stockport then the Hope Valley, always assuming a path is available ?
A handful of biomass trains have passed through Piccadilly in the past and then picked up, the route through Guide Bridge, Stalybridge and Huddersfield, but I can't imagine the route into Picc and through to Stockport, having enough capacity and paths for, probably an extra six or so, freight trains in each direction Mon to Fri, plus an odd Saturday working or two in the mix. Must be a planners nightmare at the mo trying to fathom it all out !

Would it not be better to avoid Man_Pic( platform 13) to Stockport altogether.
I would have thought it would be better to go via Man-Vic, Philips Park, Ashbury's, Romily, New Mils to pick up the Hope Valley. but as mentioned else where, is there enough capacity on the Hope Valley?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surely Carnforth and then Skipton would be easier than a reversal at Hellifield?

Perhaps, depending on how the costs of a reversal measure up against the extra mileage. Also paths on the WCML, and avoiding clashes with the (admittedly sparse) passenger services on the long signalling sections of the Little North Western.

 

[Bevan Price]

I don't know about paths through Sheffield / Meadowhall area, but I think the Hope Valley line itself would be able to accept the existing level of biomass traffic, the Knowsley binliners and the Preston / Lindsey service, especially as some of the biomass travels overnight. I have taken photos in the Hope Valley on several occasions, and it is not uncommon for there to be gaps of 2-3 hours between freight services, and I think the line can currently accept at least one freight per hour in each direction.

The simplest route for the Lindsey tanks would be WCML through Warrington to Hartford Jn, then Northwich, Altrincham, Northenden Jn & Hazel Grove (Midland) onto the Hope Valley.

 

[The Lad]

Less biomass traffic in summer.

 

[M60lad]

When does Mirfield actually close?

 

[Glenn1969]

Not until "earlyish next year"

 

[Greybeard33]

The simplest route for the Lindsey tanks would be WCML through Warrington to Hartford Jn, then Northwich, Altrincham, Northenden Jn & Hazel Grove (Midland) onto the Hope Valley.

The eastbound biomass and binliner trains are already routed via the Mid Cheshire as far as Northenden Jn, before heading north via Stockport and Denton to the Calder Valley. So they too could be diverted along the Northenden to Hazel Grove freight line to the Hope Valley.

The Man Vic route is impractical eastbound because of Miles Platting bank.

 

[plarailfan]

Not until "earlyish next year"

Oh well that will allow some time for freight crews to do some route learning runs, if they need to, as that's another issue that crossed my mind wondering if they already have route knowledge, for the possible diversionary routes ?

 

[Glenn1969]

We are also still waiting for the announcement from DfT about the scale and scope of Transpennine Route Upgrade. Given that Government is currently paralysed by Brexit seemingly to the exclusion of all else we may be waiting a long time I guess

 

[59CosG95]

The eastbound biomass and binliner trains are already routed via the Mid Cheshire as far as Northenden Jn, before heading north via Stockport and Denton to the Calder Valley. So they too could be diverted along the Northenden to Hazel Grove freight line to the Hope Valley.

The Man Vic route is impractical eastbound because of Miles Platting bank.

Of course, if electrification were to extend eastwards, a modern electric freight loco could make light work of Miles Platting. Whether running heavy freight trains through Manchester Victoria with the current timetable (or any future timetable) is sensible is another matter!

 

[furnessvale]

Of course, if electrification were to extend eastwards, a modern electric freight loco could make light work of Miles Platting. Whether running heavy freight trains through Manchester Victoria with the current timetable (or any future timetable) is sensible is another matter!

Not sure if that is true. From a dead stand at Victoria with 25 loaded biomass wagons, a lot of low down grunt would be needed. With the exception of 92s, I don't think a single electric loco could supply that sort of grunt.

 

[Greybeard33]

Of course, if electrification were to extend eastwards, a modern electric freight loco could make light work of Miles Platting. Whether running heavy freight trains through Manchester Victoria with the current timetable (or any future timetable) is sensible is another matter!

Equally a diesel banker loco could get a loaded train up the bank, without the need to extend the wires. But either solution would mean the operator would have to deploy an additional driver and shunter - an unacceptable increase in costs compared with going the long way round via Northwich.

The westbound Drax empties do run via Victoria, so it is the gradient that is the issue rather than path availability.

 

[dewsnapsliding]

The westbound Drax empties do run via Victoria, so it is the gradient that is the issue rather than path availability.

Class 60 not do it?

We kept hearing that they were the only locos that could work the trains (singly) out of Liverpool Docks?

 

[driver_m]

Not sure if that is true. From a dead stand at Victoria with 25 loaded biomass wagons, a lot of low down grunt would be needed. With the exception of 92s, I don't think a single electric loco could supply that sort of grunt.

I’d fancy my chances with an 87.

 

[Spartacus]

Class 60 not do it?

We kept hearing that they were the only locos that could work the trains (singly) out of Liverpool Docks?

They tend not be too worried about getting out of the way of whatever's coming up behind them, and it's not like 66s haven't managed it, though that's dependent on a number of factors.

 

[Trapper]

Spotted the following :-

Webinar: Transpennine Route Upgrade
Project Overview

Steven Bell, Engineering Director on behalf of Amey and the Transpennine Route Upgrade Alliance, will give an overview of the project covering the programme of improvements, the engineering challenges and how it will benefit the travelling public.

To reserve a place on this webinar, visit https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/211633295909051405

After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the webinar.

Speaker(s): Steven Bell

8th May
2019
Starts: 12:00pm
Ends: 1:00pm

 

[YorkshireBear]

There is also a PWI talk on Thursday the 18th April in Manchester.

 

[Spod]

Thanks for the webinar link!
Is there any way to access a video or summary of the PWI session? Is anyone here going?

Edit - the PWI talk on TRU has been postponed:

"Change to paper & speaker - The Trans-Pennine Route Upgrade paper will be re-scheduled for later in the year. Please accept our sincere apologies fo this late change."

 

[themiller]

Not until the curve at Church Fenton is upgraded to 100mph first.

When’s that likely to happen? Or is it not even planned, yet?

 

[deltic08]

When’s that likely to happen? Or is it not even planned, yet?

There was talk of a bypass for non-stopping trains ( nothing to do with HS2 to York) that leaves the current station intact but have heard nothing lately. It would have to be fairly long to avoid Church Fenton village close to the station on the west side and on the inside of the curve.

 

[Meerkat]

My crayons say build a West to North link between South Milford and Sherburn-in-Elmet stations.
Puts both of those stations on stopping Leeds-York services (looks like a lot of housing and employment there) and you can get rid of the western platforms at Church Fenton to speed up fast Transpennine trains.

 

[edwin_m]

I think one of the plans was to put a connection in so Leeds-York trains could use the very last bit of HS2.

 

[Glenn1969]

Are they still going ahead with the TRU webinar tomorrow? Hope somebody will keep this thread up to date with what their current plans for the Upgrade are

 

[59CosG95]

Well, I can add that at the CEBR "Town Hall" meeting held last Monday (29th April 2019) at the University of Birmingham, the TransPennine Electrification programme was repeatedly referred to as the "poster child" for delivering cost-effective electrification. However, I overheard that TRU has been stuck on GRIP 3 (Option Selection) for the past two years...

 

[td97]

This tweet from earlier today may have been a precursor
(My bold)

On the subject of West Yorkshire Combined Authority, this is its March view of what the first phase of the trans-Pennine route upgrade might look like:

• Electrification between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge, between Leeds and Huddersfield and Colton Junction to Church Fenton (near York);
• Four tracking and grade separation between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe;
• Capacity works at Stalybridge and Huddersfield stations;
• Easing the curves and raising speed restrictions at Miles Platting and Morley;
• Widespread asset renewal and some line speed improvements that will help deliver journey time reductions and improved performance;
• Digital signalling and 'traffic management' between Cottingley (Leeds) and Stalybridge to enable improved performance, recovery from delays and potentially more capacity

 

[59CosG95]

This tweet from earlier today may have been a precursor
(My bold)

So, it looks promising that WYCA have got OLE on the cards to some degree...let's hope that more of it comes in Phase 2.
Bit odd to stop the Phase 1 OLE at Church Fenton though, not the most useful for Leeds-York services.

 

[59CosG95]

And on that note...

TransPennine Wiring Progressometer Post 2.0 - accurate to 7/5/19.
Routes announced as 'to be wired': Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge (via Ashton-u-Lyne); Huddersfield-Leeds (via Morley); Church Fenton - Colton Jct.
All mileages from Manchester Victoria unless stated otherwise. Bridge mileages are approximated where noted.

1. Man Vic Station - Man Vic East Jct - Miles Platting Jct; 0m 0ch to 1m 30ch
Fully wired and energised 2018-19.
(N.B. Platforms 1 & 2 at Man Vic have now been wired.)

2. Miles Platting Jct - Philips Park West Jct - Baguley Fold Jct - Ashton Moss North Jct - Ashton-under-Lyne (inc.); 1m 30ch to 6m 33ch
Brewery Triangle (Miles Platting Jct/Brewery Jct/PP West Jct) - unknown whether the Brewery Lines (linking PP W Jct & Brewery Jct) will be electrified.
Philips Park Triangle (PP West Jct/PP South Jct/Baguley Fold Jct) - unknown whether the Baguley Lines (linking PP S Jct & Baguley Fold Jct) and the Ashburys Lines (linking PP W Jct & Ashburys East Jct) will also be electrified.
Ashton Moss North Jct - unknown whether the Crowthorne Lines (towards Denton) will be electrified, and if so, how far.

3. Ashton-under-Lyne (exc.) - Stalybridge Jct - Stalybridge (exc.); 6m 33ch to 7m 63ch
Major obstacle(s): Katherine St Tunnel (6m 55ch to 6m 60ch).

4. Stalybridge Station; 7m 63ch

Stalybridge - Mossley - Greenfield - Standedge Tunnel - Marsden - Slaithwaite - Huddersfield is due to remain unwired until further notice.
The eastern extent of wiring (from Stalybridge) and the western extent of wiring (from Huddersfield) are not yet known.
N.B. The Feeder Station at Heyrod was due to go LIVE on 29th March 2019 but whether the Great Extension Lead from there to Man Vic went live since then remains to be seen.

4a. Stalybridge (exc.) - Mossley (inc.); 7m 63ch to 10m 39ch
Major Obstacles:
Stalybridge Tunnel (8m 10ch to 8m 41ch); Scout Tunnel (9m 79ch to 10m 08ch);
'Those' houses at Mossley.

4b. Mossley (exc.) - Greenfield (inc.); 10m 39ch to 12m 54ch

4c. Greenfield (exc.) - Standedge Tunnel (West Portal); 12m 54ch to 15m 11ch
Major Obstacles:
Saddleworth Viaduct
Environs around Diggle Jct (14m 59ch) - unknown if/what preparations for Standedge Tunnel will be made

4d. Standedge Tunnel; 15m 11ch to 18m 14ch
Major Obstacles:

The Tunnel. (Think that was obvious!)

4e. Standedge Tunnel (East Portal) - Marsden (inc.); 18m 14ch to 18m 76ch
Major Obstacles:
Environs around the tunnel portal (inc. Aqueduct taking the River Colne over the western line pair, and the canal infrastructure).

NB. Marsden is sited at 18m 59ch; 18m 76ch covers the Up Marsden Loop (P3 at Marsden Station).

4f. Marsden (exc.) - Slaithwaite (inc.); 18m 76ch to 21m 19ch
Major Obstacles:
Slaithwaite Viaduct (west)
Slaithwaite Station Layout

4g. Slaithwaite (exc.) - Huddersfield (exc.); 21m 19ch to 25m 60ch
Major Obstacles:
Slaithwaite Viaduct (east)
Milnsbridge Viaduct
Gledholt Tunnels (25m 04ch to 25m 15ch)
Huddersfield Tunnels (25m 20ch to 25m 51ch). Assuming both tunnel pairs will be wired due to the latter's proximity to the throat of Huddersfield Station.

5. Huddersfield Station; 25m 60ch

Station is Grade I Listed, so may well require bespoke OLE solution within trainshed (probably headspans).

6. Huddersfield (exc.) - Deighton (inc.); 25m 60ch to 27m 60ch
Major Obstacles: Huddersfield Viaduct - bespoke wall fixings for OLE structures required if 4-tracks planned northwards.

6. Deighton (exc.) - Bradley Jct - Heaton Lodge Jct - Mirfield (inc.); 27m 60ch to 30m 54ch
Major Obstacles: Heaton Lodge Jct (for OLE clearances); Bridges over River Calder

7. Mirfield (exc.) - Mirfield East Jct - Thornhill LNW Jct - Ravensthorpe - Dewsbury (inc.); 30m 54ch to 33m 62ch
Major Obstacles: Thornhill LNW Jct (potentially grade-separated)

8. Dewsbury (exc.) - Batley - Morley (inc.); 33m 62ch to 38m 24ch
Major Obstacles: Dewsbury Viaduct; Batley Viaduct; Morley Tunnel (36m 25ch to 38m 19ch)

9. Morley (exc.) - Cottingley - Copley Hill East Jct (exc.); 38m 24ch to 42m 03ch
Major Obstacles: Copley Hill Jcts (possible grade-separation candidates?)
N.B. Copley Hill East Jct is 185m 02ch from Kings Cross on ECM1.

Neville Hill East Jct to Colton Jct is under the remit of a different principal designer/consultancy to the Huddersfield Line - they have yet to reveal the outcome of whether all of Leeds-York will also be electrified, not just Church Fenton to Colton Jct.

Do let me know if I've missed anything!