Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[59CosG95]

Mad to think that it's been over a year since the last progressometer for the TRU OLE works!
TransPennine Wiring Progressometer Post 3.0 - accurate to 20/05/20.
Routes announced as 'to be wired' in CP6: Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge (via Ashton-u-Lyne); Huddersfield-Leeds (via Morley); Church Fenton - Colton Jct.
All mileages from Manchester Victoria unless stated otherwise. Bridge mileages are approximated where noted.

1. Man Vic Station - Man Vic East Jct - Miles Platting Jct (exc.); 0m 0ch to 1m 30ch
Fully wired and energised 2018-19.
29 Jan and 27/29 April 2020 - planning permission & exemptions granted for renewal of Queens Rd (A6010) U/B to ease the curve at Miles Platting Jct, raising max. speed to 55mph.

2. Miles Platting Jct (inc.) - Philips Park West Jct - Baguley Fold Jct - Ashton Moss North Jct - Ashton-under-Lyne (inc.); 1m 30ch to 6m 33ch
Brewery Triangle (Miles Platting Jct/Brewery Jct/PP West Jct) - unknown whether the Brewery Lines (linking PP W Jct & Brewery Jct) will be electrified.
Philips Park Triangle (PP West Jct/PP South Jct/Baguley Fold Jct) - unknown whether the Baguley Lines (linking PP S Jct & Baguley Fold Jct) and the Ashburys Lines (linking PP W Jct & Ashburys East Jct) will also be electrified.
Ashton Moss North Jct - unknown whether the Crowthorne Lines (towards Denton) will be electrified, and if so, how far.
In the area around Ashton-u-Lyne Station, white painted squares have been marked out on the platforms on trackside, indicating possible locations of future masts. At least 4 have been confirmed. A Keltbray Electrification compound is currently in operation at Ashton Moss too.

3. Ashton-under-Lyne (exc.) - Stalybridge Jct - Stalybridge (exc.); 6m 33ch to 7m 63ch
Major obstacle(s): Katherine St Tunnel (6m 55ch to 6m 60ch).

4. Stalybridge Station; 7m 63ch
Within the station, around 7 yellow squares had been spraypainted onto P2/3 & P4/5, marking out the possible locations of future masts. So far, these had only run as far as the ends of the bays (P3 & P5). It is not known whether these still remain.

Stalybridge - Mossley - Greenfield - Standedge Tunnel - Marsden - Slaithwaite - Huddersfield, previously due to remain unwired, is due to be announced for wiring by the DfT in the coming weeks. General speed improvements and preparation for ETCS is however in the scope.
Stalybridge may be redesigned yet again, removing the current Piccadilly Bay Platform (P2) and rebuilding P1-P3. The eastern track layout may potentially be remodelled to allow 50mph running.

4a. Stalybridge (exc.) - Mossley (inc.); 7m 63ch to 10m 39ch
Major Obstacles:
Stalybridge Tunnel (8m 10ch to 8m 41ch); Scout Tunnel (9m 79ch to 10m 08ch);
'Those' houses at Mossley.

4b. Mossley (exc.) - Greenfield (inc.); 10m 39ch to 12m 54ch

4c. Greenfield (exc.) - Standedge Tunnel (West Portal); 12m 54ch to 15m 11ch
Major Obstacles:
Saddleworth Viaduct
Environs around Diggle Jct (14m 59ch) - unknown if/what preparations for Standedge Tunnel will be made

4d. Standedge Tunnel; 15m 11ch to 18m 14ch
Major Obstacles:

The Tunnel. (Think that was obvious!)

4e. Standedge Tunnel (East Portal) - Marsden (inc.); 18m 14ch to 18m 76ch
Major Obstacles:
Environs around the tunnel portal (inc. Aqueduct taking the River Colne over the western line pair, and the canal infrastructure).

NB. Marsden is sited at 18m 59ch; 18m 76ch covers the Up Marsden Loop (P3 at Marsden Station).

4f. Marsden (exc.) - Slaithwaite (inc.); 18m 76ch to 21m 19ch
Major Obstacles:
Slaithwaite Viaduct (west)
Slaithwaite Station Layout

4g. Slaithwaite (exc.) - Huddersfield (exc.); 21m 19ch to 25m 60ch
Major Obstacles:
Slaithwaite Viaduct (east)
Milnsbridge Viaduct
Gledholt Tunnels (25m 04ch to 25m 15ch)
Huddersfield Tunnels (25m 20ch to 25m 51ch). Both tunnel pairs are due to be wired, with wires on the main line finishing by the Allen Row industrial estate next to the line. Wires on the Penistone Line are due to finish just shy of Longroyd Viaduct.

5. Huddersfield Station; 25m 60ch
Station is Grade I Listed, so may well require bespoke OLE solution within trainshed (probably headspans).
A potential redesign of the current layout is on the cards to improve through train capacity, but all subject to a lot of public consultation.

6. Huddersfield (exc.) - Deighton (inc.); 25m 60ch to 27m 60ch
Major Obstacles: Huddersfield Viaduct - bespoke wall fixings for OLE structures required if 4-tracks planned northwards. Electrification will probably come after 4-tracking complete.
Deighton will also need rebuilding if this is the case. ETCS readiness also planned as part of the scope.

6. Deighton (exc.) - Bradley Jct - Heaton Lodge Jct - Mirfield (inc.); 27m 60ch to 30m 54ch
Major Obstacles: Heaton Lodge Jct (for OLE clearances); Bridges over River Calder
Electrification will probably come after 4-tracking complete. ETCS readiness also planned as part of the scope.
Heaton Lodge Jct to be redesigned to cater for the new 4-track layout; while the current layout will become the Slow lines, the Fast lines will be built on a new alignment.
Mirfield to be rebuilt with 1 longer island platform on the Slow lines only. Hudds Broad Canal Bridge to be replaced. Colne Bridge Rd (B6118), Woodend & Sands Lane bridges to be rebuilt for OLE clearances. Wheatley's & Mirfield Viaducts to be strengthened, with sympathetic OLE steelwork added as both structures are Grade II listed.

7. Mirfield (exc.) - Mirfield East Jct - Thornhill LNW Jct - Ravensthorpe - Dewsbury (inc.); 30m 54ch to MDL1 33m 62ch
Major Obstacles: Thornhill LNW Jct (remodelling required, either a flyover/diveunder at Thornhill to the Wakefield Line).
Electrification will probably come after 4-tracking complete. Route will be ETCS ready. Ravensthorpe to be resited 300m to the west, with the line to Leeds built on a new alignment.
Electricity substation (probably a FS or ATFS) to be built in the Ravensthorpe area. Calder Road Bridge to be realigned if the flyover option is chosen

8. Dewsbury (exc.) - Batley - Morley (inc.); MDL1 33m 62ch to 38m 24ch
Major Obstacles: Dewsbury Viaduct; Batley Viaduct; Morley Tunnel (MDL1 36m 25ch to 38m 19ch)
Morley may have to be resited. Will be electrified and ETCS ready.

9. Morley (exc.) - Cottingley - Copley Hill East Jct (exc.); MDL1 38m 24ch to 42m 03ch
Major Obstacles: Copley Hill Jcts (possible grade-separation candidates?)
N.B. Copley Hill East Jct is 185m 02ch from Kings Cross on DOL2.
Will be electrified & ETCS ready.

10. Neville Hill East Jct (HUL4 18m 25ch) to Micklefield Jct (HUL4 10m 64ch; CFM 15m 63ch) - TBC. Expected to be electrified.

11. Micklefield Jct (HUL4 10m 64ch; CFM 15m 63ch) to Church Fenton South Jct (NOC/CFM 10m 77ch) - TBC. Expected to be electrified.

12. Church Fenton South Jct (NOC/CFM 10m 77ch) to Colton Jct (NOC 5m 41ch/ECM4 182m 79ch)
To be electrified, with completion scheduled for October 2022; steelwork up in May 2021 & wires up in Jan 2022.
UTX and track work ongoing. 6 Weeks of timetable amendments to take place in both September 2020 & September 2021.
Resignalling to srart in January 2021.
Track Sectioning Cabin to be built in Church Fenton.

Compounds established at Ulleskelf; Bolton Percy (Oxton Lane); Earfit Lane; Copmanthorpe (Moor Lane); Tadcaster Road, Copmanthorpe (by A64); and Model Railway, York.
(N.B. All dates are subject to alteration, whether due to COVID-19 or otherwise)

Do let me know if I've missed anything!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I hadn't picked up that the line as far south as Church Fenton is definitely being electrified. It depresses me that I'm getting excited at the prospect of a definite 5 route miles of electrification, (although I'm sure the DfT spin would put it as 32 track km to make it sound more impressive).
I'm a bit puzzled though as to the rationale of pushing ahead of such a small amount in advance of any announcement on the bigger scheme.

Actually the new wires will allow 10 miles of electric working on the TP route, as they change at York currently.
It also gets an expensive 4-track section of the TP route out of the way - the rest is mostly 2-track.
I suspect the stretch was also not subject to complicated route variations or realignments, which is the case further west.
Nor is it subject to HS2/NPR "what ifs".
I think all the preparatory bridgework has already been done, too.
NR also has a knack of getting its preferred schemes done...
But it's ironic that an already-modernised stretch of railway is being further upgraded, when the much older and weaker infrastructure further west is delayed.

 

[Bald Rick]

But it's ironic that an already-modernised stretch of railway is being further upgraded, when the much older and weaker infrastructure further west is delayed.

Genuine question, why do you say it is an “already modernised stretch of railway”?

 

[td97]

But there will be more in the pipeline by then.

Indeed.

To be pedantic, this would be an underbridge

I do believe it is an overbridge, i.e. a railway bridge over the road. Given NR have planning permission to build an overbridge, I'd like to hope it is one!

Network Rail is seeking full planning permission to construct a new railway overbridge, crossing the A6010 Queens Road

 

[Bald Rick]

Indeed.


I do believe it is an overbridge, i.e. a railway bridge over the road. Given NR have planning permission to build an overbridge, I'd like to hope it is one!

A rail bridge over the road is an underbridge. Over or under is with reference to the railway (which of course is much more important than the road).

 

[Bald Rick]

With the lead time for such projects, will any electrification schemes announced say in the autumn be "shovel ready" (to mix my metaphors!) by 2022 though?

Possibly, at a push, notably those where work was stopped midway, e.g Bristol via Box, Oxford.

 

[Revaulx]

A rail bridge over the road is an underbridge. Over or under is with reference to the railway (which of course is much more important than the road).

In the Good Old Days they were referred to as Underline and Overline, which left little opportunity for doubt.

 

[Revaulx]

Mad to think that it's been over a year since the last progressometer for the TRU OLE works!
TransPennine Wiring Progressometer Post 3.0 - accurate to 20/05/20.
Routes announced as 'to be wired' in CP6: Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge (via Ashton-u-Lyne); Huddersfield-Leeds (via Morley); Church Fenton - Colton Jct.
All mileages from Manchester Victoria unless stated otherwise. Bridge mileages are approximated where noted.

Lots of really interesting stuff snipped...

4. Stalybridge Station; 7m 63ch
Within the station, around 7 yellow squares had been spraypainted onto P2/3 & P4/5, marking out the possible locations of future masts. So far, these had only run as far as the ends of the bays (P3 & P5). It is not known whether these still remain.

Stalybridge - Mossley - Greenfield - Standedge Tunnel - Marsden - Slaithwaite - Huddersfield, previously due to remain unwired, is due to be announced for wiring by the DfT in the coming weeks. General speed improvements and preparation for ETCS is however in the scope.
Stalybridge may be redesigned yet again, removing the current Piccadilly Bay Platform (P2) and rebuilding P1-P3. The eastern track layout may potentially be remodelled to allow 50mph running.

Indeed. The extensive and no doubt costly remodelling of Stalybridge was very soon rendered unfit for purpose by the decision to reroute some TPs away from Guide Bridge and Piccadilly and back onto the historic route through Ashton and Victoria; this process starting even before the Ordsall Chord was a thing.

At the very least, speed improvements over the junction towards Ashton are needed. Ideally, the entire P1-3 island would be replaced so the station had four through platforms: two to Guide Bridge, two (plus the recently reinstated P5 bay) to Ashton. Looks like there's enough room without having to widen the viaduct. I'm sure this must have been considered, and presumably made the decision to put Victoria-Stalybridge electrification on hold much easier.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Genuine question, why do you say it is an “already modernised stretch of railway”?

Well, it's already got modern centralised signalling and good line speeds (100mph).
Stalybridge-Diggle still has manual signalling (it only recently lost semaphores) and much lower linespeed (70-90mph).
Things were just as bad between Victoria and Stalybridge, but at least that stretch has been modestly upgraded recently, with more to come.
I think it reflects the different historic spend of BR/RT/NR east and west of the Pennines, despite being parts of the same line operationally.
Bluntly, the LMR spend its money on the WCML and little else (twice - in the 1960s and again in the 2000s).

 

[Revaulx]

Well, it's already got modern centralised signalling and good line speeds (100mph).
Stalybridge-Diggle still has manual signalling (it only recently lost semaphores) and much lower linespeed (70-90mph).
Things were just as bad between Victoria and Stalybridge, but at least that stretch has been modestly upgraded recently, with more to come.
I think it reflects the different historic spend of BR/RT/NR east and west of the Pennines, despite being parts of the same line operationally.
Bluntly, the LMR spend its money on the WCML and little else (twice - in the 1960s and again in the 2000s).

True. When Manchester-Leeds got de-quadded in the 60s, the NER/ER used the freed up formation to ease curves and created grade separation at Heaton Lodge using the beginning of the closed Leeds New Line. The LMR simply lifted the redundant tracks.

 

[Mollman]

Thanks for the information - Northern better start using at least 158s and 195s and the stopping trains as pathing a 75mph Sprinter alongside 125mph Voyagers and 802s is going to be even more of a nightmare than it currently - It’s a shame that the work on the Church Fenton and Leeds seems to be a bit stagnant as having EMUs on the Leeds to York/Selby stopping services will be vital to making pathing easier along that route.

Also I didn’t realise that this would be done by 2022!

Northern tend to use 195s on the Leeds - York stoppers as they do / did inter-work at York with the Blackpool train. 155s and 158s share the York - Hull service.

 

[quantinghome]

True. When Manchester-Leeds got de-quadded in the 60s, the NER/ER used the freed up formation to ease curves and created grade separation at Heaton Lodge using the beginning of the closed Leeds New Line. The LMR simply lifted the redundant tracks.

As a Yorkshireman I'm ever keen to be ahead of our Lancastrian friends, but to be fair to LMR weren't the redundant tracks on a separate line thus precluding any easing of curves?

 

[Halish Railway]

Northern tend to use 195s on the Leeds - York stoppers as they do / did inter-work at York with the Blackpool train. 155s and 158s share the York - Hull service.

Correct - One diagram (Odd hour departure from Leeds) is a 195/1, taking over from a 158 which was used at the start of the December timetable and the other diagram is a 3 coach 144 or a 155 (They run together in the morning and then swap midday.

 

[Revaulx]

As a Yorkshireman I'm ever keen to be ahead of our Lancastrian friends, but to be fair to LMR weren't the redundant tracks on a separate line thus precluding any easing of curves?

Ha! Maybe for a biggish chunk (Micklehurst Loop) but still true. The ER were forever easing bits of the ECML, and made sure the Selby deviation (which admittedly they weren't paying for ) was as well-specced and fast as possible.

 

[Purple Orange]

Mad to think that it's been over a year since the last progressometer for the TRU OLE works!
TransPennine Wiring Progressometer Post 3.0 - accurate to 20/05/20.
Routes announced as 'to be wired' in CP6: Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge (via Ashton-u-Lyne); Huddersfield-Leeds (via Morley); Church Fenton - Colton Jct.
All mileages from Manchester Victoria unless stated otherwise. Bridge mileages are approximated where noted.

1. Man Vic Station - Man Vic East Jct - Miles Platting Jct (exc.); 0m 0ch to 1m 30ch
Fully wired and energised 2018-19.
29 Jan and 27/29 April 2020 - planning permission & exemptions granted for renewal of Queens Rd (A6010) U/B to ease the curve at Miles Platting Jct, raising max. speed to 55mph.

2. Miles Platting Jct (inc.) - Philips Park West Jct - Baguley Fold Jct - Ashton Moss North Jct - Ashton-under-Lyne (inc.); 1m 30ch to 6m 33ch
Brewery Triangle (Miles Platting Jct/Brewery Jct/PP West Jct) - unknown whether the Brewery Lines (linking PP W Jct & Brewery Jct) will be electrified.
Philips Park Triangle (PP West Jct/PP South Jct/Baguley Fold Jct) - unknown whether the Baguley Lines (linking PP S Jct & Baguley Fold Jct) and the Ashburys Lines (linking PP W Jct & Ashburys East Jct) will also be electrified.
Ashton Moss North Jct - unknown whether the Crowthorne Lines (towards Denton) will be electrified, and if so, how far.
In the area around Ashton-u-Lyne Station, white painted squares have been marked out on the platforms on trackside, indicating possible locations of future masts. At least 4 have been confirmed. A Keltbray Electrification compound is currently in operation at Ashton Moss too.

3. Ashton-under-Lyne (exc.) - Stalybridge Jct - Stalybridge (exc.); 6m 33ch to 7m 63ch
Major obstacle(s): Katherine St Tunnel (6m 55ch to 6m 60ch).

4. Stalybridge Station; 7m 63ch
Within the station, around 7 yellow squares had been spraypainted onto P2/3 & P4/5, marking out the possible locations of future masts. So far, these had only run as far as the ends of the bays (P3 & P5). It is not known whether these still remain.

Stalybridge - Mossley - Greenfield - Standedge Tunnel - Marsden - Slaithwaite - Huddersfield, previously due to remain unwired, is due to be announced for wiring by the DfT in the coming weeks. General speed improvements and preparation for ETCS is however in the scope.
Stalybridge may be redesigned yet again, removing the current Piccadilly Bay Platform (P2) and rebuilding P1-P3. The eastern track layout may potentially be remodelled to allow 50mph running.

4a. Stalybridge (exc.) - Mossley (inc.); 7m 63ch to 10m 39ch
Major Obstacles:
Stalybridge Tunnel (8m 10ch to 8m 41ch); Scout Tunnel (9m 79ch to 10m 08ch);
'Those' houses at Mossley.

4b. Mossley (exc.) - Greenfield (inc.); 10m 39ch to 12m 54ch

4c. Greenfield (exc.) - Standedge Tunnel (West Portal); 12m 54ch to 15m 11ch
Major Obstacles:
Saddleworth Viaduct
Environs around Diggle Jct (14m 59ch) - unknown if/what preparations for Standedge Tunnel will be made

4d. Standedge Tunnel; 15m 11ch to 18m 14ch
Major Obstacles:

The Tunnel. (Think that was obvious!)

4e. Standedge Tunnel (East Portal) - Marsden (inc.); 18m 14ch to 18m 76ch
Major Obstacles:
Environs around the tunnel portal (inc. Aqueduct taking the River Colne over the western line pair, and the canal infrastructure).

NB. Marsden is sited at 18m 59ch; 18m 76ch covers the Up Marsden Loop (P3 at Marsden Station).

4f. Marsden (exc.) - Slaithwaite (inc.); 18m 76ch to 21m 19ch
Major Obstacles:
Slaithwaite Viaduct (west)
Slaithwaite Station Layout

4g. Slaithwaite (exc.) - Huddersfield (exc.); 21m 19ch to 25m 60ch
Major Obstacles:
Slaithwaite Viaduct (east)
Milnsbridge Viaduct
Gledholt Tunnels (25m 04ch to 25m 15ch)
Huddersfield Tunnels (25m 20ch to 25m 51ch). Both tunnel pairs are due to be wired, with wires on the main line finishing by the Allen Row industrial estate next to the line. Wires on the Penistone Line are due to finish just shy of Longroyd Viaduct.

5. Huddersfield Station; 25m 60ch
Station is Grade I Listed, so may well require bespoke OLE solution within trainshed (probably headspans).
A potential redesign of the current layout is on the cards to improve through train capacity, but all subject to a lot of public consultation.

6. Huddersfield (exc.) - Deighton (inc.); 25m 60ch to 27m 60ch
Major Obstacles: Huddersfield Viaduct - bespoke wall fixings for OLE structures required if 4-tracks planned northwards. Electrification will probably come after 4-tracking complete.
Deighton will also need rebuilding if this is the case. ETCS readiness also planned as part of the scope.

6. Deighton (exc.) - Bradley Jct - Heaton Lodge Jct - Mirfield (inc.); 27m 60ch to 30m 54ch
Major Obstacles: Heaton Lodge Jct (for OLE clearances); Bridges over River Calder
Electrification will probably come after 4-tracking complete. ETCS readiness also planned as part of the scope.
Heaton Lodge Jct to be redesigned to cater for the new 4-track layout; while the current layout will become the Slow lines, the Fast lines will be built on a new alignment.
Mirfield to be rebuilt with 1 longer island platform on the Slow lines only. Hudds Broad Canal Bridge to be replaced. Colne Bridge Rd (B6118), Woodend & Sands Lane bridges to be rebuilt for OLE clearances. Wheatley's & Mirfield Viaducts to be strengthened, with sympathetic OLE steelwork added as both structures are Grade II listed.

7. Mirfield (exc.) - Mirfield East Jct - Thornhill LNW Jct - Ravensthorpe - Dewsbury (inc.); 30m 54ch to MDL1 33m 62ch
Major Obstacles: Thornhill LNW Jct (remodelling required, either a flyover/diveunder at Thornhill to the Wakefield Line).
Electrification will probably come after 4-tracking complete. Route will be ETCS ready. Ravensthorpe to be resited 300m to the west, with the line to Leeds built on a new alignment.
Electricity substation (probably a FS or ATFS) to be built in the Ravensthorpe area. Calder Road Bridge to be realigned if the flyover option is chosen

8. Dewsbury (exc.) - Batley - Morley (inc.); MDL1 33m 62ch to 38m 24ch
Major Obstacles: Dewsbury Viaduct; Batley Viaduct; Morley Tunnel (MDL1 36m 25ch to 38m 19ch)
Morley may have to be resited. Will be electrified and ETCS ready.

9. Morley (exc.) - Cottingley - Copley Hill East Jct (exc.); MDL1 38m 24ch to 42m 03ch
Major Obstacles: Copley Hill Jcts (possible grade-separation candidates?)
N.B. Copley Hill East Jct is 185m 02ch from Kings Cross on DOL2.
Will be electrified & ETCS ready.

10. Neville Hill East Jct (HUL4 18m 25ch) to Micklefield Jct (HUL4 10m 64ch; CFM 15m 63ch) - TBC. Expected to be electrified.

11. Micklefield Jct (HUL4 10m 64ch; CFM 15m 63ch) to Church Fenton South Jct (NOC/CFM 10m 77ch) - TBC. Expected to be electrified.

12. Church Fenton South Jct (NOC/CFM 10m 77ch) to Colton Jct (NOC 5m 41ch/ECM4 182m 79ch)
To be electrified, with completion scheduled for October 2022; steelwork up in May 2021 & wires up in Jan 2022.
UTX and track work ongoing. 6 Weeks of timetable amendments to take place in both September 2020 & September 2021.
Resignalling to srart in January 2021.
Track Sectioning Cabin to be built in Church Fenton.

Compounds established at Ulleskelf; Bolton Percy (Oxton Lane); Earfit Lane; Copmanthorpe (Moor Lane); Tadcaster Road, Copmanthorpe (by A64); and Model Railway, York.
(N.B. All dates are subject to alteration, whether due to COVID-19 or otherwise)

Do let me know if I've missed anything!

Are my eyes deceiving me and this was meant to be posted on April 1st? Or should we genuinely be expecting to see an announcement that the north trans pennine route will now be fully electrified?

 

[Senex]

4. Stalybridge Station; 7m 63ch
Within the station, around 7 yellow squares had been spraypainted onto P2/3 & P4/5, marking out the possible locations of future masts. So far, these had only run as far as the ends of the bays (P3 & P5). It is not known whether these still remain.

Stalybridge - Mossley - Greenfield - Standedge Tunnel - Marsden - Slaithwaite - Huddersfield, previously due to remain unwired, is due to be announced for wiring by the DfT in the coming weeks. General speed improvements and preparation for ETCS is however in the scope.
Stalybridge may be redesigned yet again, removing the current Piccadilly Bay Platform (P2) and rebuilding P1-P3. The eastern track layout may potentially be remodelled to allow 50mph running.

5. Huddersfield Station; 25m 60ch
Station is Grade I Listed, so may well require bespoke OLE solution within trainshed (probably headspans).
A potential redesign of the current layout is on the cards to improve through train capacity, but all subject to a lot of public consultation.

As far as I can see Stalybridge platforms, the east throat, and the tunnel are already 50 mph. It's just the west throat that's such a mess—and that, as Reveulx remarked—on account of the decision to go ahead with work to make the main route the Guide Bridge line even when the final plans for restoring working through Victoria were almost ready to put into effect. And if you go back and look at the slides in the David Lawrence 2017 presentation it seems that at one stage something much better than 50 was planned right through Stalybridge.

Huddersfield has always seemed to me a puzzle. There are the two straight original platforms, the speed in what is now the up tunnel rises to 50 immediately on entry and that in the down tunnel is 60 pretty well right to its eastern end, and you can see from YouTube videos that the alignments are pretty good in both cases, so why are the speed ambitions for Huddersfield so low?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ha! Maybe for a biggish chunk (Micklehurst Loop) but still true. The ER were forever easing bits of the ECML, and made sure the Selby deviation (which admittedly they weren't paying for ) was as well-specced and fast as possible.

The ER managed to upgrade the signalling east of Standedge Tunnel, while the LMR made no attempt to do anything similar to the west.
Even the Calder Valley route now has better signalling than Standedge.

 

[edwin_m]

Wasn't it re-signaled from Stalybridge up to Diggle Junction (exclusive) a few years ago?

 

[Revaulx]

Wasn't it re-signaled from Stalybridge up to Diggle Junction (exclusive) a few years ago?

It was. Greenfield box is sadly missed. It was a sizeable one, having controlled the junction for the Oldham branch.

 

[edwin_m]

It was. Greenfield box is sadly missed. It was a sizeable one, having controlled the junction for the Oldham branch.

So on the entire route the only non-modern signaling is at Diggle Junction. Curious they only left the one box, but it disproves the suggestion that the signaling isn't modern.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As far as I can see Stalybridge platforms, the east throat, and the tunnel are already 50 mph. It's just the west throat that's such a mess—and that, as Reveulx remarked—on account of the decision to go ahead with work to make the main route the Guide Bridge line even when the final plans for restoring working through Victoria were almost ready to put into effect. And if you go back and look at the slides in the David Lawrence 2017 presentation it seems that at one stage something much better than 50 was planned right through Stalybridge.

Huddersfield has always seemed to me a puzzle. There are the two straight original platforms, the speed in what is now the up tunnel rises to 50 immediately on entry and that in the down tunnel is 60 pretty well right to its eastern end, and you can see from YouTube videos that the alignments are pretty good in both cases, so why are the speed ambitions for Huddersfield so low?

Everything calls at Huddersfield anyway, so there's less impetus to increase linespeeds there.

If the plans from a few months back are still relevant, then the two best-aligned platforms at the station (1 and 4) will revert to being the fast line platforms rather than 4 being used as effectively a double-ended bay at present. Platform 8 (the current main down platform) is awkward due to curvature, so the expresses no longer having to deal with the reverse curves should help approach speeds.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It’s listed status won’t help either I assume?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It’s listed status won’t help either I assume?

It'll certainly drag things out a bit. AIUI the main building is Grade I listed, with the building on the island being Grade II* listed. The building on the island is more likely to need changes though- at least now that the signal box is redundant (and not covered by the listing as far as I can tell) there should be a bit more space to play with.

 

[Halifaxlad]

It'll certainly drag things out a bit. AIUI the main building is Grade I listed, with the building on the island being Grade II* listed. The building on the island is more likely to need changes though- at least now that the signal box is redundant (and not covered by the listing as far as I can tell) there should be a bit more space to play with.

Ain't the 2* building being moved slightly
?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Ain't the 2* building being moved slightly
?

I don't think anything's set in stone as yet. If moving the whole building is being considered, I can see there being some sense in moving it northwards, as the bays (P5&6) will be decommissioned.

 

[SuperNova]

I don't think anything's set in stone as yet. If moving the whole building is being considered, I can see there being some sense in moving it northwards, as the bays (P5&6) will be decommissioned.

It's planned to moved northwards with P4 moving closer towards P1 too. However, there's still uncertainty over the roof. Plus a lot of planning required in extending the platforms at the Leeds end - road closures etc.

 

[Senex]

Everything calls at Huddersfield anyway, so there's less impetus to increase linespeeds there.

If the plans from a few months back are still relevant, then the two best-aligned platforms at the station (1 and 4) will revert to being the fast line platforms rather than 4 being used as effectively a double-ended bay at present. Platform 8 (the current main down platform) is awkward due to curvature, so the expresses no longer having to deal with the reverse curves should help approach speeds.

Yes, in thinking of best speeds I was assuming 4 for the down main/fast—it is the original down platform and therefore the best aligned. And yes, everything calls at Huddersfield at the moment, and that's fully justified when present layout speeds are so very low—the deceleration/acceleration times are an absolutely minimal addition to the standing time, and so the cost of a stop is not very much at all (even though the consequences of the stop seem often to be a flooding out of the train by short-distance passengers and a sharp quality deterioration for longer-distance users—a long-term problem on some sectors of both TPE and XC). But if speeds through 1 and 4 could go to 50 and 60 as seems to be dictated by the curvature in the tunnels (or better 60 and 60 if it could be done), then it might be possible to justify not stopping everything at Huddersfield in order to get the best possible times between the major centres, Manchester and Leeds. Maybe desirable if there were an attempt to get best possible timings for a Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-York-Newcastle-Edinburgh service but obviously not on if TPE is always to be seen as an InterRegio rather than an InterCity offering, with Liverpool and Manchester, and to a lesser extent Leeds, as the poor relations of Birmingham .....

 

[mwmbwls]

So in terms of sequencing which route sections will begin electrification first and which will be last?

 

[59CosG95]

So in terms of sequencing which route sections will begin electrification first and which will be last?

At this stage, it's hard to tell. Perhaps Vic - Stalybridge & Colton - Church Fenton will run in parallel, as they have different delivery teams.

 

[Purple Orange]

Yes, in thinking of best speeds I was assuming 4 for the down main/fast—it is the original down platform and therefore the best aligned. And yes, everything calls at Huddersfield at the moment, and that's fully justified when present layout speeds are so very low—the deceleration/acceleration times are an absolutely minimal addition to the standing time, and so the cost of a stop is not very much at all (even though the consequences of the stop seem often to be a flooding out of the train by short-distance passengers and a sharp quality deterioration for longer-distance users—a long-term problem on some sectors of both TPE and XC). But if speeds through 1 and 4 could go to 50 and 60 as seems to be dictated by the curvature in the tunnels (or better 60 and 60 if it could be done), then it might be possible to justify not stopping everything at Huddersfield in order to get the best possible times between the major centres, Manchester and Leeds. Maybe desirable if there were an attempt to get best possible timings for a Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-York-Newcastle-Edinburgh service but obviously not on if TPE is always to be seen as an InterRegio rather than an InterCity offering, with Liverpool and Manchester, and to a lesser extent Leeds, as the poor relations of Birmingham .....

I don’t see any reason for all TPE services between Manchester and Leeds to not stop at Huddersfield. Let’s not forget that concepts such as “inter regio” and “semi-fast” do not exist for passengers. It is either a long-distance intercity service or not. If you’re planning on travelling to Edinburgh from Liverpool and you’ve booked on TPE, you’re going to think it will be an intercity service.

With respect to Liverpool & Manchester to Edinburgh, there is the WCML service too which is only complimented with the ECML option. Much like Birmingham has XC to Scotland vis the ECML and Avanti via the WCML.