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Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

hwl

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At this stage, it's hard to tell. Perhaps Vic - Stalybridge & Colton - Church Fenton will run in parallel, as they have different delivery teams.
Electrification - It very much depends on the scale of other work required first (and deciding what is needed) as this is an upgrade programme not just electrification. Hence areas where the least other work (including option selection) is required first will probably get electrified first.
Diversion options (including Northern service and freight) are also a key part of phasing.

Vic - Stalybridge & Colton - Church Fenton fit the bill for being done first.
 
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59CosG95

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I don’t see any reason for all TPE services between Manchester and Leeds to not stop at Huddersfield. Let’s not forget that concepts such as “inter regio” and “semi-fast” do not exist for passengers. It is either a long-distance intercity service or not. If you’re planning on travelling to Edinburgh from Liverpool and you’ve booked on TPE, you’re going to think it will be an intercity service.

With respect to Liverpool & Manchester to Edinburgh, there is the WCML service too which is only complimented with the ECML option. Much like Birmingham has XC to Scotland vis the ECML and Avanti via the WCML.
Not forgetting that NPR, once we see a final design for it, will almost certainly include a bypass of Huddersfield in some capacity.
 

Purple Orange

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Not forgetting that NPR, once we see a final design for it, will almost certainly include a bypass of Huddersfield in some capacity.

I have a feeling that this electrification speculation will be NPR between Manchester and Leeds. The aspiration is to achieve circa 6 tph between the two cities with a 30 min journey time. Today we have 5 tph with the 6th split, along a 45-50 min journey time. I think the tactic will be to make incremental improvements, shaving off a few minutes here and there. If journey time was reduced to 35-40 mins, how strong would the business case be to spend several billion on a tunnel under Bradford, or just a Huddersfield bypass?
 

mwmbwls

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TPE have routinely run diversions via Todmorden in the past and I recall this option being on the agenda at a PWI lecture on the TPRU.Augmented repairs were also undertaken in concert with the Holmes Tunnel restoration. The route through Tod was used during the first Stalybridge blockade. On that occasion the route through Mirfield was used but with routes north and south of Ravensthorpe being included in the programme - could that mean a route via Halifax and Bradford might be bought into play? Is it already recognised as a diversionary route or does reversal at Bradford rule it out?
 

61653 HTAFC

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TPE have routinely run diversions via Todmorden in the past and I recall this option being on the agenda at a PWI lecture on the TPRU.Augmented repairs were also undertaken in concert with the Holmes Tunnel restoration. The route through Tod was used during the first Stalybridge blockade. On that occasion the route through Mirfield was used but with routes north and south of Ravensthorpe being included in the programme - could that mean a route via Halifax and Bradford might be bought into play? Is it already recognised as a diversionary route or does reversal at Bradford rule it out?
TPE crews don't currently sign the route via Bradford Interchange, but if there was a need for them to use it they could learn it. The reversal complicates things as it slows everything down and reduces overall capacity, but I can see it as useful while the shared section between Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe is closed. You would maybe get 2tph via Bradford as an absolute maximum, without destroying the existing Calder Valley services through there.
 

59CosG95

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Electrification - It very much depends on the scale of other work required first (and deciding what is needed) as this is an upgrade programme not just electrification. Hence areas where the least other work (including option selection) is required first will probably get electrified first.
Diversion options (including Northern service and freight) are also a key part of phasing.

Vic - Stalybridge & Colton - Church Fenton fit the bill for being done first.
Indeed. The majority of Miles Platting - Ashton-u-Lyne - Stalybridge could feasibly be done in a single blockade, or spread over several weekends, with TPE routed via Guide Bridge. Bustitution between Ashton & Stalybridge, with ticket acceptance on Metrolink to Vic might be an option for Northern pax. Calder Valley diverts for TPE when the work reaches Stalybridge itself and/or the Philips Park Triangle; for such a short distance, infilling between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge would be an easy win too IMHO.
Miles Platting Junction itself will be the big "Alan B'Stard" of the work; this would probably involve diversion of TPE services via Guide Bridge, and termination in Man Picc.

Meanwhile, Colton - Church Fenton has the distinct advantage of being 4-track, so it's reasonable to assume that, on open route stretches of track (or plain line in p-way lingo) services could be concentrated on 1 pair of tracks at a time at weekends, and could vary between either track depending on location. Of course, at S&C locations, mid-point anchors, and termination anchors, full possessions would be needed for boom installation, as portals (rather than TTCs) would inevitably be required.
 

swt_passenger

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Senex

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Not forgetting that NPR, once we see a final design for it, will almost certainly include a bypass of Huddersfield in some capacity.
If we do ever see a final design for it — and at the cost of a stop in Bradford in any case.
 

mwmbwls

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….. infilling between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge would be an easy win too IMHO.
Miles Platting Junction itself will be the big "Alan B'Stard" of the work; this would probably involve diversion of TPE services via Guide Bridge, and termination in Man Picc.
Looking at the proposed timing for works at Miles Platting from December 2018 to February 2022 - Guide Bridge to Stalybridge which was originally part of the North West Electrification Scheme Phase 5 (?) looks as though it will need to be an early candidate for completion. The MSW electrification used to run up to the exchange sidings at Park Parade so this could mitigate extensive clearance works and provide a construction base.
 

Halifaxlad

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TPE crews don't currently sign the route via Bradford Interchange, but if there was a need for them to use it they could learn it. The reversal complicates things as it slows everything down and reduces overall capacity, but I can see it as useful while the shared section between Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe is closed. You would maybe get 2tph via Bradford as an absolute maximum, without destroying the existing Calder Valley services through there.

You could get a few more if the avoiding line was reopened!
 

Chris NS

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TPE crews don't currently sign the route via Bradford Interchange, but if there was a need for them to use it they could learn it. The reversal complicates things as it slows everything down and reduces overall capacity, but I can see it as useful while the shared section between Heaton Lodge and Ravensthorpe is closed. You would maybe get 2tph via Bradford as an absolute maximum, without destroying the existing Calder Valley services through there.

IIRC, the TRU programme is aware of the alternative route via Bradford but wants to avoid using this for precisely the reason you give.

They might do this when work at Mirfield is going on (where it's either that or Rail Replacement bus), but this option is definitely down as last resort.
 

Halifaxlad

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IIRC, the TRU programme is aware of the alternative route via Bradford but wants to avoid using this for precisely the reason you give.

They might do this when work at Mirfield is going on (where it's either that or Rail Replacement bus), but this option is definitely down as last resort.

Isn't the Mirfield section going to be closed for about 3 months at least ?
 

Halifaxlad

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Haven't heard that, but could easily be true.

Whatever the length of time, the Mirfield section closure will be horrendous.

I know and that is why I'm hoping the avoiding line will be reopened as a diversionary route.

(Also so Halifax could then have a faster service to Leeds afterwards.)
 

Ianno87

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Haven't heard that, but could easily be true.

Whatever the length of time, the Mirfield section closure will be horrendous.

I'm sure that somebody with far more engineering expertise than me will have looked at it and ruled it out, but I'd have thought it would be possible to at least keep two of the (eventual) 4 tracks open throughout most the durations - operating on two whilst rebuilding the other two.

Do we know what specifically the 3 months is required for (e.g. to build a flyover than unavoidably impacts all 4 tracks)?
 

Ianno87

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I know and that is why I'm hoping the avoiding line will be reopened as a diversionary route.

(Also so Halifax could then have a faster service to Leeds afterwards.)

Highly unlikely, particularly as bypassing Bradford means bypassing a chunk of demand. A business case for it in isolation is unlikely to fly for the (in grand scheme of things) low benefit of Halifax-Leeds journeys)

Plus re-instating such a link will be, in itself, disruptive to reinstate the junctions at either end.
 

ainsworth74

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This has cropped up on numerous occasions and now as then is off-topic. There is no serious suggestion of reopening the Bradford avoiding line as part of the TRU so any member wishing to suggest it needs to do so on a new thread in Speculative Ideas.

Thank you :)
 

Glenn1969

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Pretty sure someone posted about a 39 week blockade being required at Batley. That would mean long term diversion via Calder Valley wouldn't it?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Pretty sure someone posted about a 39 week blockade being required at Batley. That would mean long term diversion via Calder Valley wouldn't it?
A Batley blockade would probably mean diversions via Normanton and Wakefield Kirkgate rather than Bradford and Calderdale. Presumably Mirfield and Huddersfield won't be blockaded at the same time as Batley.
 

Revaulx

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Pretty sure someone posted about a 39 week blockade being required at Batley. That would mean long term diversion via Calder Valley wouldn't it?
Why Batley? I wasn’t aware any major work was planned there; it’s well to the north of the bit that’s being quadrupled
 

59CosG95

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Why Batley? I wasn’t aware any major work was planned there; it’s well to the north of the bit that’s being quadrupled
NR's website states that the entire route from Huddersfield to Leeds (via Batley) is being electrified. So it could easily be that, or something to do with it - probably installing OLE in Morley Tunnel.
 

Revaulx

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NR's website states that the entire route from Huddersfield to Leeds (via Batley) is being electrified. So it could easily be that, or something to do with it - probably installing OLE in Morley Tunnel.
Ah ok. 39 weeks is a hell of a long time; maybe the track needs lowering in the tunnel.
 

59CosG95

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Ah ok. 39 weeks is a hell of a long time; maybe the track needs lowering in the tunnel.
That's most likely the explanation. Not only that, fixings within the ceiling of the tunnel need to be installed to take OLE - whether it's due to be convential OLE on stovepipes or a ROCS (Rigid Overhead Conductor System), as used in the Severn Tunnel, St. Pancras Low Level etc. remains to be seen. The fixings, depending on how they're anchored in the masonry, will also need time to cure.
Before the track is lowered, the geometry needs to be obtained.
And when you're doing such a large amount of work in a tunnel of Morley's length, you might as well improve the drainage and make extensive repairs.

Of course, the '39 weeks' figure may prove entirely academic; no details have been released by NR on their website (at least, not in the same level of detail as Huddersfield - Dewsbury).
 

lancastrian

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This planning application for a new bridge for Queens Road and a 50mph curve at Miles Platting has just been published. Work on this project is proposed to start in December 2019 and be finished by February 2022.

I have a simple question. Why is this taking so long (26 months) to complete? It can't be the Covid 19 problem as Network Rail has been getting on with various upgrade all throughout the crisis, so what is it. The sooner we get these things done, then the sooner the electrification can be completed. Hopefully before I reach a 100 years old in 2053.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I have a simple question. Why is this taking so long (26 months) to complete?

I think after GWML fiasco etc and huge cost over runs everyone realized that the politicians "I want it and I want it now kneejerk" were part of the problem. Planning well and planning upfront actually saves time and money in the long run. That means NR et al are being ultra cautious.
 
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Bald Rick

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I have a simple question. Why is this taking so long (26 months) to complete? It can't be the Covid 19 problem as Network Rail has been getting on with various upgrade all throughout the crisis, so what is it. The sooner we get these things done, then the sooner the electrification can be completed. Hopefully before I reach a 100 years old in 2053.

Rebuilding a Bridge (and a big one st that) is a non trivial task. There will be site compounds to erect, road closures to arrange, utilities to move, lay down areas to clear, environmentsl mitigation measure to install, line closures to arrange (timescale for major closures: minimum 14 months, maximum 26 months). Then when it is done, the site compounds / lay down areas have to be cleared, and restored ready for future use. Only then is it finished.
 

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