Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[PhilH]

DfT approves Network Rail plans for Leeds-Micklefield section of TRU. Mainly closure of level crossings and rebuilding of bridges to allow for electrification.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66fbfc84e84ae1fd8592ec22/network-rail-leeds-micklefield-order-decision__1_.pdf

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Whilst I've not seen it yet, I'm told DFT have published the Transport & Works Act for Leeds-Micklefield earlier today. I can't post my colleagues twitter, but I'm quite sure it's online somewhere. Mention of alterations to four bridges for electrification.

That is good to hear. I was worried it could have been part of the savings they are trying to make pre-budget etc.

 

[Bald Rick]

Excellent, and in under 15 months from application!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

New Civil Engineer reporting the following

Transpennine Route Upgrade being reviewed before Autumn Budget

The completion of the Transpennine Route Upgrade to electrify the Manchester-Leeds rail line is being reviewed by government officials in the lead up to the Autumn Budget.
According to the Financial Times, which said it had heard from three people familiar with the situation, continuation of the project is being looked at to try and “release in-year savings” for chancellor Rachel Reeves’ first Budget at the helm.

Two of the newspaper’s sources said that officials on the project have been asked to find £100M in savings on the TRU ahead of the Budget on 30 October. This would be split between the TRU East of Leeds and TRU West of Leeds, with each needing to find £50M in savings.
The review forms part of a “zero-based capital review” of Department for Transport projects ahead of the Budget. Under this review, all DfT projects must justify their cost as the Treasury is desperate for ways to close the reported £22bn black hole in government finances over the next couple of years.

One of the FT’s sources suggested that the TRU would be asked to slow down spending in order to hit short-term budgetary targets for the Treasury, even if this might lead to a higher cost in the long run.

This is plain daft on works that have awarded contracts so hopefully its being leaked deliberately to the FT so that doesn't happen. It also doesn't fit with other stories reporting that fiscal rules will be tweaked to remove capital spending from the debt to GDP calculation which should remove the need to find cash savings on capital projects.

 

[danielnez1]

New Civil Engineer reporting the following

Transpennine Route Upgrade being reviewed before Autumn Budget


This is plain daft on works that have awarded contracts so hopefully its being leaked deliberately to the FT so that doesn't happen. It also doesn't fit with other stories reporting that fiscal rules will be tweaked to remove capital spending from the debt to GDP calculation which should remove the need to find cash savings on capital projects.

I always thought the project would come under scrutiny sooner or later given the screw ups with the Great Western electrification and other projects. IMHO (based on my limited interactions with Network Rail, as well as one of their former members of staff involved with electrification), the blame for any reduction in the electrification programme is largely Network Rail's fault and the failures boil down to their frankly insane bureaucratic project management structures (GRIP, PACE, SPEED or whatever acronym they or their consultants can think up for each iteration). The best thing Labour can do now is put an end to it and salvage the situation is to find competent people to manage and run Network Rail.

 

[The exile]

Excellent, and in under 15 months from application!

Which probably explains the incompetent spelling and grammar.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is plain daft on works that have awarded contracts so hopefully its being leaked deliberately to the FT so that doesn't happen. It also doesn't fit with other stories reporting that fiscal rules will be tweaked to remove capital spending from the debt to GDP calculation which should remove the need to find cash savings on capital projects.

The 10% budget cut model is across all departments, not just transport, and certainly not just TRU.
It is to give the Chancellor options for her budget decisions on Oct 30.
Rail overspend on TRU and projects like HS2 don't help.
Who knows, they may shelve roads projects and divert the money to rail.

Treasury asking ministers to draw up billions of pounds of infrastructure cuts

Exclusive: departments asked to model cuts of up to 10% despite Rachel Reeves’ vow to invest in growth

www.theguardian.com

Ministers are being asked to draw up billions of pounds in cuts to infrastructure projects over the next 18 months despite Rachel Reeves pledging to invest more to grow the economy, the Guardian has learned.
Members of the cabinet have been asked to model cuts to their investment plans of up to 10% of their annual capital spending as part of this month’s spending review, government sources said.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Who knows, they may shelve roads projects and divert the money to rail.

Treasury asking ministers to draw up billions of pounds of infrastructure cuts

Exclusive: departments asked to model cuts of up to 10% despite Rachel Reeves’ vow to invest in growth

www.theguardian.com

Or vice-versa..

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I always thought the project would come under scrutiny sooner or later given the screw ups with the Great Western electrification and other projects. IMHO (based on my limited interactions with Network Rail, as well as one of their former members of staff involved with electrification), the blame for any reduction in the electrification programme is largely Network Rail's fault and the failures boil down to their frankly insane bureaucratic project management structures (GRIP, PACE, SPEED or whatever acronym they or their consultants can think up for each iteration). The best thing Labour can do now is put an end to it and salvage the situation is to find competent people to manage and run Network Rail.

Have to say when i heard that the TRU project was projected at £11B i sensed a GWEP fiasco coming down the line (pun intended). Roger Ford shone a spotlight on it and than got a rebuttal from the then route director and we heard nothing more. Part of the problem is risk aversion and being criticised for previous overspends results in significant contingency provisions but in my experience that element of the budget is seen as being available to spend and allows bad behaviours to penetrate the project team from engineering to delivery.

 

[josh-j]

Perhaps staying the obvious but let's get ahead of this right from the start:

Even if it is more expensive than it could have been, cutting parts off or shelving it only to have to do it all anyway in a few years would be way worse. Massive amounts of extra costs in design, planning... Just like HS2.

By all means work out why things cost too much, but don't stop projects once they are in the middle of being built. It took decades to get to this point.

 

[quantinghome]

Perhaps staying the obvious but let's get ahead of this right from the start:

Even if it is more expensive than it could have been, cutting parts off or shelving it only to have to do it all anyway in a few years would be way worse. Massive amounts of extra costs in design, planning... Just like HS2.

By all means work out why things cost too much, but don't stop projects once they are in the middle of being built. It took decades to get to this point.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The thought of the Budget at the end of this month brings to mind a song from the 1980s by the Swedish rock band "Europe"......"It's the final countdown"....

 

[Hophead]

When there is also talk of approving HS2 into Euston from Old Oak Common, demanding cost savings from TPU is likely to go down pretty badly.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When there is also talk of approving HS2 into Euston from Old Oak Common, demanding cost savings from TPU is likely to go down pretty badly.

Is there much credence in this talk"?

 

[Class 170101]

I always thought the project would come under scrutiny sooner or later given the screw ups with the Great Western electrification and other projects. IMHO (based on my limited interactions with Network Rail, as well as one of their former members of staff involved with electrification), the blame for any reduction in the electrification programme is largely Network Rail's fault and the failures boil down to their frankly insane bureaucratic project management structures (GRIP, PACE, SPEED or whatever acronym they or their consultants can think up for each iteration).

Whoever is responible frankly needs to get a GRIP, SPEED up the PACE and stop messing about

The best thing Labour can do now is put an end to it and salvage the situation is to find competent people to manage and run Network Rail.

I wish you luck with that one.

The 10% budget cut model is across all departments, not just transport, and certainly not just TRU.
It is to give the Chancellor options for her budget decisions on Oct 30.
Rail overspend on TRU and projects like HS2 don't help.

No they don't but I'm sure its not just confined to the DfT

Who knows, they may shelve roads projects and divert the money to rail.

Perhaps they should shelve road projects. Even Electric cars have their issues in terms of road space and still have other pollutants like tyres and are the batteries part of the circular economy yet?

 

[matacaster]

Pictures of continuing (fairly slow) bridge footings work on Bradford Road, Huddersfield from Bradford side.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps they should shelve road projects. Even Electric cars have their issues in terms of road space and still have other pollutants like tyres and are the batteries part of the circular economy yet?

I wonder if conversations of this type took place when the canal companies saw the danger to their profitability at the time of the advent of the railways.

 

[Wtloild]

Will it still be running in another 11 years? Probably yes.

The Great Pyramid of Giza apparently took 26 years to complete.
Maybe time to get some Israelite slaves on the team.

 

[59CosG95]

The Great Pyramid of Giza apparently took 26 years to complete.
Maybe time to get some Israelite slaves on the team.

As I've paraphrased Dorothy Zbornak from The Golden Girls before on this website: "Fine, get me 20,000 Hebrews and I'll have it built in no time!"

 

[Spartacus]

As I've paraphrased Dorothy Zbornak from The Golden Girls before on this website: "Fine, get me 20,000 Hebrews and I'll have it built in no time!"

And to paraphrase Dave Lister from the Jupiter Mining Corporation ship Red Dwarf: "They had massive whips. Massive, massive whips!"

 

[InOban]

If you want it done properly you hire workers on decent T&Cs. Which is why the pyramids weren't built by slaves.

 

[Spartacus]

If you want it done properly you hire workers on decent T&Cs. Which is why the pyramids weren't built by slaves.

Which I think is one reason we're both quoting sitcoms....

 

[aliceh]

Piling and brackets going in around Morley from the end of the month. Letter shows network rail are "installing overhead line equipment from Morley to Dragon Bridge" from the 21st October for several weeks

 

[dodecahedron67]

TPE diverting via Wakefield Kirkgate between Leeds and Huddersfield for 4 weeks as a result

 

[Grumpy]

Piling and brackets going in around Morley from the end of the month. Letter shows network rail are "installing overhead line equipment from Morley to Dragon Bridge" from the 21st October for several weeks

Is Dragon Bridge the overbridge by the Dragon pub?
And if so why stop there and not continue another mile to meet the existing masts at Copley Hill?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Piling and brackets going in around Morley from the end of the month. Letter shows network rail are "installing overhead line equipment from Morley to Dragon Bridge" from the 21st October for several weeks.

This explains why Morley is still looking somewhat as a building site. I would not be at all suprised if all the "open air" stuff is done first with the "in tunnel" stuff done later on especially with Morley Tunnel being smaller than what most people think.

There's been no action in Hebden Bridge with the siding that's ment to be shortened to accomadate a passing loop as part of the TRU.

Piling and brackets going in around Morley from the end of the month. Letter shows network rail are "installing overhead line equipment from Morley to Dragon Bridge" from the 21st October for several weeks.

This explains why Morley is still looking somewhat as a building site. I would not be at all suprised if all the "open air" stuff is done first with the "in tunnel" stuff done later on especially with Morley Tunnel being smaller than what most people think.

There's been no action in Hebden Bridge with the siding that's ment to be shortened to accomadate a passing loop as part of the TRU.

 

[D6130]

This explains why Morley is still looking somewhat as a building site. I would not be at all suprised if all the "open air" stuff is done first with the "in tunnel" stuff done later on especially with Morley Tunnel being smaller than what most people think.

There's been no action in Hebden Bridge with the siding that's ment to be shortened to accomadate a passing loop as part of the TRU.


This explains why Morley is still looking somewhat as a building site. I would not be at all suprised if all the "open air" stuff is done first with the "in tunnel" stuff done later on especially with Morley Tunnel being smaller than what most people think.

There's been no action in Hebden Bridge with the siding that's ment to be shortened to accomadate a passing loop as part of the TRU.

I thought that siding at Hebden Bridge was going to become the passing loop?

 

[Halifaxlad]

I thought that siding at Hebden Bridge was going to become the passing loop?

Im sure someone has said in another thread that its been dropped!

 

[Ploughman]

According to the BBC a Wartime UXB has been found near Cross Gates Station.
Was it found by any of the Upgrade works ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn9dq320vxeo

Rail passengers were warned of delays and cancellations after a suspected unexploded bomb was found near a line in east Leeds.

 

[stibz]

According to the BBC a Wartime UXB has been found near Cross Gates Station.
Was it found by any of the Upgrade works ?

Disruption caused by an earlier incident where an unexploded wartime bomb was discovered near the railway between Leeds and Selby / York has now ended. Network Rail said.