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Transport focus NRPS Autumn

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Failed Unit

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Some surprises here.

GTR will be pleased that Great Northern has declined to be the least satisfied survey with significant drops in all measures (including seat comfort)

Northern join the low down.

Somehow Thameslink are not in the bottom 5.

Very grim reading.

http://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.ne...-Passenger-Survey-Autumn-2018-Main-report.pdf

...The lowest ratings for overall satisfaction were given to Great Northern (68 per cent), Northern (72 per cent), South Western Railway (73 per cent), TransPennine Express (73 per cent), and Greater Anglia (73 per cent).

Nationally the percentage of journeys rated as satisfactory overall was 79 per cent. This was significantly down compared to autumn 2017 (when 81 per cent of journeys were satisfactory). 81 per cent of passenger journeys were rated as satisfactory by passengers overall in autumn 2018.

Nationally the percentage of journeys rated as satisfactory for value for money for the price of their ticket was 46 per cent. This was not significantly different compared to autumn 2017 when 47 per cent were satisfactory. 69 per cent of journeys were rated as satisfactory regarding the level of crowding on the train. This was not significantly different compared to autumn 2017 when 69% of journeys were also rated as satisfactory.
 
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zoneking

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Satisfaction largely down across the board. This is not surprising. Performance has been atrocious and fares keep going up. I pay £4465 per year for my season ticket and my train is late by at least 5 minutes 90% of the time. If it is cancelled, as there is only 1 train per hour, I get the bus at £4.85 per journey. Delay repay does not compensate for this amount.
 

Bertie the bus

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The results in this survey just reaffirm what many have said for years. Satisfaction is largely - did I get to where I was going roughly on time without being accosted by a stranger? Punctuality is at a 13 year low so satisfaction is at a 10 year low.

If Network Rail get punctuality back up then satisfaction will increase - and the TOCs can take the credit.
 

yorksrob

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The results in this survey just reaffirm what many have said for years. Satisfaction is largely - did I get to where I was going roughly on time without being accosted by a stranger? Punctuality is at a 13 year low so satisfaction is at a 10 year low.

If Network Rail get punctuality back up then satisfaction will increase - and the TOCs can take the credit.

You're forgetting percieved value for money.
 

Mingulay

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The results in this survey just reaffirm what many have said for years. Satisfaction is largely - did I get to where I was going roughly on time without being accosted by a stranger? Punctuality is at a 13 year low so satisfaction is at a 10 year low.

If Network Rail get punctuality back up then satisfaction will increase - and the TOCs can take the credit.


I think these statistics serious flatter the rail industry in the uk

How Scotrail are at 79% is a mystery to me . They will be cock a hoop with such a high score!

I suppose some parts of the network in Scotland have not experienced the upheaval of delayed new stock and a struggling new timetable so that will tilt the average , but on lines in Central Scotland and Fife its hard to find passengers that are remotely satisfied if your a regular commuter . Be lucky to find 25% that are satisfied ! It can only get worse as theses stats don't cover the collapse of the service and a raft of cancellations now being experienced due to short staffing and training , so the next 1/4 will be worse in Scotland . But only goes to show , statistics can be very misleading, depends how the questions are asked ?
 

Clip

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But only goes to show , statistics can be very misleading, depends how the questions are asked ?

I think the questions asked are the same across the board but with georgraphically large TOCs I think the stats will always be skewed as as even if it is going belly up on one side of it, its probably doing quite well on the other. Nothing you can do about that
 

Bertie the bus

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I think these statistics serious flatter the rail industry in the uk

How Scotrail are at 79% is a mystery to me . They will be cock a hoop with such a high score!
I agree. The headline satisfaction score does flatter the rail industry. You only need to look at the 30 or so other things in the survey to see that. There are always some TOCs where the overall satisfaction is greater than every single satisfaction score for the 30 so called most important factors.

However, ignoring the actual numbers, the general trend is punctuality up, satisfation up; punctuality down, satisfaction down.
 

Mingulay

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I agree. The headline satisfaction score does flatter the rail industry. You only need to look at the 30 or so other things in the survey to see that. There are always some TOCs where the overall satisfaction is greater than every single satisfaction score for the 30 so called most important factors.

However, ignoring the actual numbers, the general trend is punctuality up, satisfation up; punctuality down, satisfaction down.

Fair comment

So begs the question if the parameters need to be redefined. If you are a poor operator but getting a satisfaction score in the 70s or 80s that leaves little room for improvement, every incentive to do no better.

As commuters we should take these with a pinch of salt. We know when are getting a satisfactory and unsatisfactory service . Satisfactory on most old school report cards means ok and average. Not good or excellent. Striving for mediocrity will not raise the standards of what commuters put up with for year on year price increases. Good practice needs genuine praise and scoring . But these statistics achieve nothing as they are so at odds with the real passenger experience day in day out for commuters .
 

Matt_pool

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I'm not sure how Northern scored such a high score! It would be interesting to know what route, what time of the day and day of the week they carried out the survey.

Do you know why Merseyrail get such a high score? Because, from personal experience, they survey people who probably only use the train once or twice a week during the day when the trains are quieter, not during morning and evening rush hour when you can't get a seat and, in some cases, can't even get on the train because it's so full!
 

Mingulay

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I'm not sure how Northern scored such a high score! It would be interesting to know what route, what time of the day and day of the week they carried out the survey.

Do you know why Merseyrail get such a high score? Because, from personal experience, they survey people who probably only use the train once or twice a week during the day when the trains are quieter, not during morning and evening rush hour when you can't get a seat and, in some cases, can't even get on the train because it's so full!


You make a fair point on the blindingly obvious. I have commuted for 20 years by train , that's a fair number of trains. I can't recall if ever I have been canvassed for my views. Perhaps I have giving them the benefit of the doubt once a long time ago but not in the last 10 years . Never seen anyone getting canvassed on a train.

So if they are canvassing empty trains in the middle of the day from retired vicars and ladies of leisure in no particular hurry and all day to do it in then that would explain the wholly unrecognisable results to those of us the travel by train daily as commuters.

Given we have the MD of Scotrail making near weekly apologies for a wholly dismal service he himself does not defend. We have Transport Scotland threatening to take the franchise off Abellio. Then you get passenger satisfaction statistics claiming 80% customer satisfaction! It does not make sense. In those circumstances you expect customer satisfaction below 50% at best.

These statistics need scrapping and calibrated to measure mediocrity at 50% . If others industries or individuals marked themselves like the rail industry we would have a chest full of medals patting ourselves on the back. Rail industry. Get real !!!
 

ooo

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So if they are canvassing empty trains in the middle of the day from retired vicars and ladies of leisure in no particular hurry and all day to do it in then that would explain the wholly unrecognisable results to those of us the travel by train daily as commuters
I was surveyed ( I think for for this) last year on a GWR service. Both sitting and standing passengers were given questionnaires
 

Starmill

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By definition someoe who is travelling on a train, unless they're a fare evader or has authority to travel for free (hopefully the methodology controls for these factors) isn't so dissatisfied with the value for money that they chose not to buy the ticket.

As such, the satisfaction of the pool being surveyed has effectively a floor on it, because the survey isn't applying to a group of people who made the journey from a to b by various modes, it's only applying to those who paid for a train ticket. This means that by definition you'd expect a high or very high majority of people to say they're satisfied with the value for money. They were satisfied enough to pay. Instead it is 46%. This leads to the inescapable conclusion which it's clear there's majority support for among travellers (and doubtless a far greater majority among prospective travellers): the railway is too expensive.
 

yorksrob

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By definition someoe who is travelling on a train, unless they're a fare evader or has authority to travel for free (hopefully the methodology controls for these factors) isn't so dissatisfied with the value for money that they chose not to buy the ticket.

As such, the satisfaction of the pool being surveyed has effectively a floor on it, because the survey isn't applying to a group of people who made the journey from a to b by various modes, it's only applying to those who paid for a train ticket. This means that by definition you'd expect a high or very high majority of people to say they're satisfied with the value for money. They were satisfied enough to pay. Instead it is 46%. This leads to the inescapable conclusion which it's clear there's majority support for among travellers (and doubtless a far greater majority among prospective travellers): the railway is too expensive.

Whilst I agree with your conclusion, I'm not convinced that willingness to pay for a ticket translates into a high satisfaction with value for money. I suspect that for the majority buy a ticket primarily because they don't want to get embroiled in the railways 'Court of Star Chamber' type legal system.

I think there's an underlying assumption that the trains are full of motorists who've chosen to catch the train because it's "good" value, rather than people who don't drive, or commute because its more practical than driving. For some of these, rail travel might almost be a distress purchase.

I'm quite sceptical about this survey because I've never been asked what I think in it.
 

Starmill

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I'm not convinced that willingness to pay for a ticket translates into a high satisfaction with value for money.
It doesn't - that's not what I said. I said that the survey is skewed by its sample - it will not include lots of people who are dissatisfied, so it will be an over-estimation of satisfaction among the people who have considered going by train and could practically do so.

Consider the case where one year someone is handed a survey on the train and they think they paid too much for their joureny, but they still bought the ticket because they are used to it and although expensive they could afford it. They rated their satisfaction with value as low. The next year the price goes up by 12% as has been the case with Manchester to Sheffield return say. They think this is taking the mick and decide the train company has gone too far, so they go by National Express instead at half the price. They are not on the train any more when the surveys are handed out. That will increase the satisfaction score with value for money, even though it is actually bad for the railway, and for all of us who want the railway to thrive. There is therefore a perverse measure here.
 

Mingulay

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Whilst I agree with your conclusion, I'm not convinced that willingness to pay for a ticket translates into a high satisfaction with value for money. I suspect that for the majority buy a ticket primarily because they don't want to get embroiled in the railways 'Court of Star Chamber' type legal system.

I think there's an underlying assumption that the trains are full of motorists who've chosen to catch the train because it's "good" value, rather than people who don't drive, or commute because its more practical than driving. For some of these, rail travel might almost be a distress purchase.

I'm quite sceptical about this survey because I've never been asked what I think in it.


The results are just so ludicrous its beyond serious consideration or credibility. Never seen a passenger survey on any Scotrail train, in 15 years or longer. None of my fellow commuters have either . Given the level of dissatisfaction of commuters in many regions , to be scoring in the 80s looks like massaged and manipulated and spun data . Kidding themselves and gullible ministers, not the travelling public .
 

jon0844

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Some surprises here.

GTR will be pleased that Great Northern has declined to be the least satisfied survey with significant drops in all measures (including seat comfort)

Northern join the low down.

Somehow Thameslink are not in the bottom 5.

Very grim reading.

http://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.ne...-Passenger-Survey-Autumn-2018-Main-report.pdf

I expect a lot of people didn't realise how much of GN switched to TL in May, so that impacted the results.

FWIW I think period 10 has been the best period for GTR in PPM terms since it took over from First. But those weekend services need to be restored in full and it's frustrating that we need to wait until May.
 

Andyh82

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I was surprised that SWR scored as low as TPE.

Of course the results will depend on what the passengers expect as standard.

TPE would previously score highly and get away with any failings because they are not Northern. Also south eastern travellers have much higher expectations. Even when suffering a cancellation the Frequencies and number of carriages will still be better than what passengers outside of London are faced with in the normal timetable.

Regarding Northern, it was said on the local news that the RMT have slammed the results and have called for Arriva to lose the franchise and the franchise to be nationalised. Of course part of the low score will be caused by the RMT strike in the first place.
 

Failed Unit

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I expect a lot of people didn't realise how much of GN switched to TL in May, so that impacted the results.

FWIW I think period 10 has been the best period for GTR in PPM terms since it took over from First. But those weekend services need to be restored in full and it's frustrating that we need to wait until May.

Would that include services that don’t actually everywhere they should under the “if it is more that 5 minutes late - miss out stops” policy?

Agree. I should know better but I still refer to it as Great Northern.

Probably will until the time when we actually make it into the core.
 

Goldfish62

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I was surprised that SWR scored as low as TPE.

Of course the results will depend on what the passengers expect as standard.

TPE would previously score highly and get away with any failings because they are not Northern. Also south eastern travellers have much higher expectations. Even when suffering a cancellation the Frequencies and number of carriages will still be better than what passengers outside of London are faced with in the normal timetable.

Regarding Northern, it was said on the local news that the RMT have slammed the results and have called for Arriva to lose the franchise and the franchise to be nationalised. Of course part of the low score will be caused by the RMT strike in the first place.
Re SWR it will undoubtedly have been due to the strikes and the generally poor reliability in the second half of last year. However I agree that south east passengers do have higher expectations because IMO the awfulness of the service on Northern doesn't bear comparison.
 

J-Rod

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Whenever I read these things, I always add 'of those surveyed' in my own head, which you can take as 'the figures have been massaged a little'. Not saying that anything underhand is going on - it's just that surveys such as this will never present a complete picture (for which Starmill makes some good points, as does Yorksrob).

One thing that should be taken from it though, is a decline on previous years (however slight) gives a fair indication that things need to improve.
 

Muzer

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I was surprised that SWR scored as low as TPE.

Of course the results will depend on what the passengers expect as standard.

TPE would previously score highly and get away with any failings because they are not Northern. Also south eastern travellers have much higher expectations. Even when suffering a cancellation the Frequencies and number of carriages will still be better than what passengers outside of London are faced with in the normal timetable.

Regarding Northern, it was said on the local news that the RMT have slammed the results and have called for Arriva to lose the franchise and the franchise to be nationalised. Of course part of the low score will be caused by the RMT strike in the first place.
Precisely. SWT had a very high reputation, when compared with other commuter operators. It's a tough act to follow, and as has been discussed on this forum in the past, circumstances both internal and external to SWR have conspired to significantly worsen performance since around the time they took over (though the first indications of it were happening under SWT - the whole comparison not helped by the franchise change being during the Waterloo works). Most commuters are unlikely to regularly travel on other commuter routes at peak times so they won't have a good indication of how bad other people have it, so their frame of reference will basically be the past performance of their own line, in most cases.
 

peri

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I filled in a survey on TPE out of Hull one morning. Train on time and in a good mood looking forward to travelling all over.
At the end of the day after it had all gone tits up my answers would have been different.
Perhaps they do the surveys early on in the day?
 

Goldfish62

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Transport Focus claim that their surveys are statistically sound and I have no reason to disbelieve that. However, I think a lot of it has got to do with the fact that the survey is based on the one journey you are taking at the time of the survey.
 

Goldfish62

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Precisely. SWT had a very high reputation, when compared with other commuter operators. It's a tough act to follow, and as has been discussed on this forum in the past, circumstances both internal and external to SWR have conspired to significantly worsen performance since around the time they took over (though the first indications of it were happening under SWT - the whole comparison not helped by the franchise change being during the Waterloo works). Most commuters are unlikely to regularly travel on other commuter routes at peak times so they won't have a good indication of how bad other people have it, so their frame of reference will basically be the past performance of their own line, in most cases.
I think if you asked most daily commuters they would not agree about SWT's reputation. What has done it for SWR is the strike action and the decline in performance partly impacted by the now acknowledged decrease in resilience of the revised track layout at Waterloo post the blockade.

Interestingly, two scores which have improved are train presentation and internal cleanliness, which I myself have noticed improvements in.
 

Goldfish62

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Why have they dropped so much. Re-read the report. Dropped on most KPI but same old timetable stock etc.

Unless they are taking flak from unhappy GTR customers forced to use their routes.
Yes, I don't understand the sudden drop.
 
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