Transport for Wales 769's

[anthony263]

All rhymney services are back to serving penarth from December.

 

[PHILIPE]

All rhymney services are back to serving penarth from December.

Tailor made for 769s.

769006 has been out for what I think is the first time today on one of the trainers

 

[Cardiff123]

All rhymney services are back to serving penarth from December.

Pre-Covid, whilst daytime services to & from Penarth originated from Bargoed & Rhymney, some evening services came from & went back to other Valleys. On Sundays, some services to & from Barry went to & came from Rhymney.

From 13 December, all services to & from Bargoed & Rhymney will go to Cardiff Central or Penarth only, 7 days a week. Hopefully this means by early 2021 we'll see a full deployment of 769s all day every day on Rhymney - Penarth services to finally see off the Pacers.

 

[PHILIPE]

Pre-Covid, whilst daytime services to & from Penarth originated from Bargoed & Rhymney, some evening services came from & went back to other Valleys. On Sundays, some services to & from Barry went to & came from Rhymney.

From 13 December, all services to & from Bargoed & Rhymney will go to Cardiff Central or Penarth only, 7 days a week. Hopefully this means by early 2021 we'll see a full deployment of 769s all day every day on Rhymney - Penarth services to finally see off the Pacers.

Only 3 x 769s would be required to work exclusively between Rhymney and Penarth but Bargoed services are also running to Penarth so a chance for more there. If only Rhymney drivers are going to work 769s there would be problems in Valleys crews, who work universally in the Valleys, maintaining route knowledge to Rhymney in the case of Cardiff and Treherbert crews.

 

[Bikeman78]

Only 3 x 769s would be required to work exclusively between Rhymney and Penarth but Bargoed services are also running to Penarth so a chance for more there. If only Rhymney drivers are going to work 769s there would be problems in Valleys crews, who work universally in the Valleys, maintaining route knowledge to Rhymney in the case of Cardiff and Treherbert crews.

If my calculations are correct, the whole Penarth to Bargoed and Rhymney service requires six units. You raise a good point about route knowledge. Maybe Cardiff and Treherbert will learn 769s as well.

 

[PHILIPE]

If my calculations are correct, the whole Penarth to Bargoed and Rhymney service requires six units. You raise a good point about route knowledge. Maybe Cardiff and Treherbert will learn 769s as well.

I think that TFW have been trying to avoid extensive training but we can always wait and see. Things will change on introduction of the Metro, though

 

[AdamWW]

I think that TFW have been trying to avoid extensive training but we can always wait and see. Things will change on introduction of the Metro, though

Although won't that also involve the Rhymney line having totally different stock to the other valley lines? I.e. not so different from having 769s to Rhymney and 150's everywhere else.

(Except Coryton won't be getting 769s).

 

[Cardiff123]

If my calculations are correct, the whole Penarth to Bargoed and Rhymney service requires six units. You raise a good point about route knowledge. Maybe Cardiff and Treherbert will learn 769s as well.

Why would Treherbert drivers need to learn 769s when the 769s are staying confined to Rhymney - Penarth? Plus 769s will need to be cleared to Pontypridd and Treherbert. Extra expense of crew training and clearing 769s for other routes is not a luxury that TfW Rail has.

 

[JN114]

Why would Treherbert drivers need to learn 769s when the 769s are staying confined to Rhymney - Penarth? Plus 769s will need to be cleared to Pontypridd and Treherbert. Extra expense of crew training and clearing 769s for other routes is not a luxury that TfW Rail has.

Don’t Treherbert (and Cardiff Valleys) crews also work Rhymey services?

 

[6Gtraincrew]

008 has entered passenger service today. 07:14 off Rhymney.

 

[AdamWW]

Why would Treherbert drivers need to learn 769s when the 769s are staying confined to Rhymney - Penarth? Plus 769s will need to be cleared to Pontypridd and Treherbert. Extra expense of crew training and clearing 769s for other routes is not a luxury that TfW Rail has.

Because you've lost the flexbility of drivers from one area occasionally covering a different one if required?

 

[PHILIPE]

Don’t Treherbert (and Cardiff Valleys) crews also work Rhymey services?

All three Valleys Depots, Cardiff (Valleys), Treherbert and Rhymney work the whole Valleys Network.

 

[sftfan1909]

008 has been swapped for 003 at Cardiff due to a fault

 

[Bikeman78]

Why would Treherbert drivers need to learn 769s when the 769s are staying confined to Rhymney - Penarth? Plus 769s will need to be cleared to Pontypridd and Treherbert. Extra expense of crew training and clearing 769s for other routes is not a luxury that TfW Rail has.

In order for them to retain route knowledge to Rhymney. Either Cardiff and Treherbert need to learn 769s or at least one diagram on the Rhymney line needs to be diagrammed 150s (which reduces the number of Pacers that can be withdrawn). Otherwise their route knowledge will lapse. Rhymney is only a small crew depot so if someone goes sick and the other depots cannot cover, then potentially all the workings on that diagram will be cancelled.

 

[Rhydgaled]

In order for them to retain route knowledge to Rhymney. Either Cardiff and Treherbert need to learn 769s or at least one diagram on the Rhymney line needs to be diagrammed 150s (which reduces the number of Pacers that can be withdrawn). Otherwise their route knowledge will lapse. Rhymney is only a small crew depot so if someone goes sick and the other depots cannot cover, then potentially all the workings on that diagram will be cancelled.

If Rhymney was a mix of 769s and 153s would the 153 diagram(s) be sufficient to allow Cardiff and Treherbert crews to retain route knowledge to Rhymney or do Treherbert only sign 150s and Pacers? Also, would the route-knowledge retention diagram being 153s affect the ability to withdraw Pacers any more/less than using 150s on that diagram?

 

[PHILIPE]

If Rhymney was a mix of 769s and 153s would the 153 diagram(s) be sufficient to allow Cardiff and Treherbert crews to retain route knowledge to Rhymney or do Treherbert only sign 150s and Pacers? Also, would the route-knowledge retention diagram being 153s affect the ability to withdraw Pacers any more/less than using 150s on that diagram?

You would only need one Rhymney line diagram to be covered with a 150/153 which all Valley Depots sign these. Pacers wouldn't come into the equation.

 

[southern442]

If Rhymney was a mix of 769s and 153s would the 153 diagram(s) be sufficient to allow Cardiff and Treherbert crews to retain route knowledge to Rhymney or do Treherbert only sign 150s and Pacers? Also, would the route-knowledge retention diagram being 153s affect the ability to withdraw Pacers any more/less than using 150s on that diagram?

Pacers wouldn't come into the equation.

As I understand, any non-769 unit on the Rhymney branch would affect the number of pacers that can be withdrawn, because taking a 150 or a 153 away from somewhere else increases the likelihood of a pacer having to stay in service to cover the redundancy.

 

[31160]

Would anyone be so kind as to post the current full diagram for the 769 please i fancey a stab at these next week

 

[anthony263]

Would anyone be so kind as to post the current full diagram for the 769 please i fancey a stab at these next week

0714 Rhymney to Cardiff Central
0936 Cardiff Central - Rhymney
1114 Rhymney- Cardiff Central
1236 Cardiff Central- Rhymney

 

[31160]

0714 Rhymney to Cardiff Central
0936 Cardiff Central - Rhymney
1114 Rhymney- Cardiff Central
1236 Cardiff Central- Rhymney

Thanks

 

[Bikeman78]

As I understand, any non-769 unit on the Rhymney branch would affect the number of pacers that can be withdrawn, because taking a 150 or a 153 away from somewhere else increases the likelihood of a pacer having to stay in service to cover the redundancy.

Exactly this. Five 769s will replace five Pacer+something else (usually a 153) combinations. The five Pacers go in the bin. Let's assume they can find another 153 to make it up to six, so they have three pairs of 153s that can work in West Wales and replace three 150s. So that's three more Pacers in the bin. The only way to bin more Pacers is to run shorter trains.

 

[berneyarms]

As I understand, any non-769 unit on the Rhymney branch would affect the number of pacers that can be withdrawn, because taking a 150 or a 153 away from somewhere else increases the likelihood of a pacer having to stay in service to cover the redundancy.

The new timetable between Rhymney and Penarth will have 6 diagrams by the looks of things so there will have to be some non-769 operated services.

 

[PHILIPE]

It has been suggested that a number of 143s will continue into 2021 but we cannot confirm that until any application to DFT has been made and agreed.

 

[southern442]

The new timetable between Rhymney and Penarth will have 6 diagrams by the looks of things so there will have to be some non-769 operated services.

There will be 9 units ultimately though?

 

[berneyarms]

There will be 9 units ultimately though?

Correct - just pointing out that initially it’s likely that it won’t be possible to be all Class 769.

 

[Bikeman78]

There will be 9 units ultimately though?

Yes nine units. They can't run anywhere other than Penarth to Rhymney so maximum of six in service per day until the service increases again.

 

[craigybagel]

Yes nine units. They can't run anywhere other than Penarth to Rhymney so maximum of six in service per day until the service increases again.

Can they definitely only run Penarth - Rhymney? I know they can't go on City line because they're too long or Barry - Bridgend because that's mainline crews, but is there anything other then getting them cleared stopping them from going up the Taff Valley and/or Barry Island?

 

[Bikeman78]

Can they definitely only run Penarth - Rhymney? I know they can't go on City line because they're too long or Barry - Bridgend because that's mainline crews, but is there anything other then getting them cleared stopping them from going up the Taff Valley and/or Barry Island?

The bodyshells are very similar to class 150s so clearing them for the other routes could be quite easy. I think it was only ever planned for seven of the nine units to be diagrammed. That could be achieved if they can run the Cardiff Bay to Caerphilly shuttle.

 

[craigybagel]

Just thinking it through; I don't think Rhymney depot is large enough to staff all the Rhymney valley services by itself - so if they do want to run 6 diagrams all day they may well need to expand the training to other depots. I could be wrong though, just a hunch.

 

[47827]

Just thinking it through; I don't think Rhymney depot is large enough to staff all the Rhymney valley services by itself - so if they do want to run 6 diagrams all day they may well need to expand the training to other depots. I could be wrong though, just a hunch.

No idea if it's the same now but in the mid 90s when I first went a few times on the Waterman Railways diagrams there were just a few dozen Rhymney drivers and guards all of whom were competent on loco operations in much the same way as they will need to be 769 trained now. At the time you would be lucky to see 1 return trip per day plus Rugby event extras so it was easy to keep traction/stock specific crews on the trains. Cardiff certainly had crews who could work them in an emergency in a certain link as they would also assist on events days too. No idea if Treherbert got involved when it changed to 37s,or even what sort of depot that is/was.