Transport for Wales 769's

[PHILIPE]

I've been working in the area since Tuesday. On general observation, all I've seen are 153's and 150's.

There is still a 37 tucked round the back at Rhymney as of this afternoon.

37254 the 769 Thunderbird which changed over with 37418 earlier this week.

 

[The_Train]

Here is the latest list I have:

Number	Ex No.	Livery	TOC	Depot/Location	Current State
769002	319002	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769003	319003	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769006	319006	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769007	319007	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769008	319008	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769421	319421	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769424	319424	Northern	Northern	Allerton	In Service
769426	319426	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Loughborough Works	Converted - undergoing further maintenance
769431	319431	Northern	Northern	Allerton	In Service
769434	319434	Northern	Northern	Allerton	In Service
769442	319442	Northern	Northern	Allerton	In Service
769445	319445	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769448	319448	Northern	Northern	Allerton	In Service
769450	319450	Northern	Northern	Allerton	In Service
769452	319452	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769456	319456	Northern	Northern	Allerton	In Service
769458	319458	Northern	Northern	Allerton	In Service
769501	319009	Orion Dark & Light Blue	ROG	Loughborough Works	Undergoing conversion
769502	319010	Orion Dark & Light Blue	ROG	Eastleigh Works	Conversion to 769 complete - internal work ongoing
769503			ROG		Conversion work yet to start
769504			ROG		Conversion work yet to start
769505			ROG		Conversion work yet to start
769506			ROG		Conversion work yet to start
769507			ROG		Conversion work yet to start
769508			ROG		Conversion work yet to start
769509			ROG		Conversion work yet to start
769510			ROG		Conversion work yet to start
769922	319422	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769923	319423	GWR Green	GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769925	319425	GWR Green	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Conversion complete - stored, awaiting testing
769927	319427	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	GWR	Loughborough Works	Undergoing conversion
769928	319428	GWR Green	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - awaiting testing
769930	319430	GWR Green	GWR	Reading Traincare	Undergoing acceptance exam
769932	319432	GWR Green	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - awaiting testing
769935	319435	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769936	319436	GWR Green	GWR	Long Marston	Converted - awaiting testing
769937	319437	GWR Green	GWR	Wolverton Works	Converted - awaiting testing
769938	319438	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - awaiting testing
769939	319439	GWR Green	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - awaiting testing
769940	319440	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	GWR	Wolverton Works	Undergoing conversion
769943	319443	GWR Green	GWR	Reading Traincare	Undergoing testing
769944	319444	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	GWR	Derby RTC	Conversion work yet to start
769946	319446	GWR Green	GWR	Reading Traincare	Undergoing testing
769947	319447	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769949	319449	GWR Green	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Conversion complete - stored, awaiting testing
769959	319459	GWR Green	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Conversion complete - stored, awaiting testing

Bold items are those updated since I last posted

 

[Western 52]

Do we know if any are likely to be out on the Rhymney line today?

 

[Pete_uk]

How are these being paid for? I mean is there a fixed lease cost or do TFW only pay when a unit is in service?

 

[PHILIPE]

I've been working in the area since Tuesday. On general observation, all I've seen are 153's and 150's.

There is still a 37 tucked round the back at Rhymney as of this afternoon.

37099 went to Rhymney today to change over with 37254 as the Thunderbird which didn't stay long

 

[Anonymous10]

37099 went to Rhymney today to change over with 37254 as the Thunderbird which didn't stay long

why do they change the Thunderbirds so often?

 

[Western 52]

How does a 37 couple to a 769? Presumably some sort of adaptor?

 

[PHILIPE]

why do they change the Thunderbirds so often?

Exams

 

[Anonymous10]

Exams

ah ok thanks

 

[Peter749]

I see there has been a 4th 769 path added today, not that 769's are running on all these paths due to availability.

2F21 1702 Rhymney - Cardiff
5F21 1816 Cardiff Central to Cardiff Canton Sidings

Sorry for the bump - just trying to work out the diags

RTT shows the 1702 ex Rhymney to be 2P17 working thru to Penarth returning as 2R18 1833 to Rhymney

Peter

 

[PHILIPE]

Sorry for the bump - just trying to work out the diags

RTT shows the 1702 ex Rhymney to be 2P17 working thru to Penarth returning as 2R18 1833 to Rhymney

Peter

Until there is availability to work everything there will be STP alterations to provide for fuelling.

 

[Max]

Didn't see any 769s out on my commute this morning, but there were lots of very busy 2 car formations on peak time valleys services into Cardiff - not brilliant on the week after half term!

 

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I saw at least one 769 heading south from Tirphil this morning, before 10am.

 

[Cardiff123]

Didn't see any 769s out on my commute this morning, but there were lots of very busy 2 car formations on peak time valleys services into Cardiff - not brilliant on the week after half term!

Whilst it's obviously not great that you were seeing mainly 2 car formations, it's encouraging that you report seeing trains as busy, especially in what pre-Covid was the morning 'peak'.
As the 769s are continuing to be temperamental, with restrictions now easing, the 143s really should've got a stay of execution over the summer.

The 769s just need to behave, they are needed now more than ever. If people are coming back to the trains, the last thing we want to happen is for them to be put off by overcrowding and short forming.

 

[PHILIPE]

Whilst it's obviously not great that you were seeing mainly 2 car formations, it's encouraging that you report seeing trains as busy, especially in what pre-Covid was the morning 'peak'.
As the 769s are continuing to be temperamental, with restrictions now easing, the 143s really should've got a stay of execution over the summer.

The 769s just need to behave, they are needed now more than ever. If people are coming back to the trains, the last thing we want to happen is for them to be put off by overcrowding and short forming.

TFW would have had no say in any Pacer decision as it is a national responsibility rather than the Welsh Government.

 

[Cardiff123]

TFW would have had no say in any Pacer decision as it is a national responsibility rather than the Welsh Government.

I know, it was up to the DfT whether the 143s would've got an extension. But regardless, they've gone now.

What we do need is for the 769s to actually work. It's now 3 years since they were initially meant to be in passenger service with ATW on the Rhymney line, and TfW can still only manage to get 1 or 2 a day out that can't seem to last all day. I'm not blaming TfW here, I'm sure their engineers are working flat out to try to get as many into service as possible.

But I think this project has proven that converting a 30+ year old EMU into a DMU isn't as simple as just slinging diesel engines in the empty space underneath, which is what i'm sure that the champion of the 769s in 2016-17, Failing Grayling, thought it involved.

 

[PHILIPE]

I know, it was up to the DfT whether the 143s would've got an extension. But regardless, they've gone now.

What we do need is for the 769s to actually work. It's now 3 years since they were initially meant to be in passenger service with ATW on the Rhymney line, and TfW can still only manage to get 1 or 2 a day out that can't seem to last all day. I'm not blaming TfW here, I'm sure their engineers are working flat out to try to get as many into service as possible.

But I think this project has proven that converting a 30+ year old EMU into a DMU isn't as simple as just slinging diesel engines in the empty space underneath, which is what i'm sure that the champion of the 769s in 2016-17, Failing Grayling, thought it involved.

Let us hope that the DFT or whoever organises things in the new BRB set up have learnt a lesson and not try to turn something into which it isn't again. The project will never be abandoned because the DFT will never admit that they, led by Failing, fouled up.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I know, it was up to the DfT whether the 143s would've got an extension. But regardless, they've gone now.

What we do need is for the 769s to actually work. It's now 3 years since they were initially meant to be in passenger service with ATW on the Rhymney line, and TfW can still only manage to get 1 or 2 a day out that can't seem to last all day. I'm not blaming TfW here, I'm sure their engineers are working flat out to try to get as many into service as possible.

But I think this project has proven that converting a 30+ year old EMU into a DMU isn't as simple as just slinging diesel engines in the empty space underneath, which is what i'm sure that the champion of the 769s in 2016-17, Failing Grayling, thought it involved.

To be fair though (and I am absolutely not a Grayling apologist) Grayling was led by Whitehall and Porterbrook. If they told him these contraptions worked, who was he to disagree with them ?

In my view it is Porterbrook who have let the industry down with a protracted conversion and some very lacklustre testing and tweaking. In my view Porterbrook and Wabtec should have taken a pair of 769s to a recognised test track like Asfordby and given them a good thrashing, including the power changes for AC and DC. It is a little strange that even the simplest TfW DEMU version of the 769 - without any AC or DC inputs, is struggling to deliver reliability, so it is unsurprising that Northern and GWR are having their isssues too.

 

[Dai Corner]

Did the Welsh Government / TfW ask for a further derogation for the 143s?

 

[PHILIPE]

Did the Welsh Government / TfW ask for a further derogation for the 143s?

That info wouldn't be in the public domain

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

I saw at least one 769 heading south from Tirphil this morning, before 10am.

I had a ride on 003 and 006 did not see any others

 

[Class319&373]

Are there any out today?

 

[Max]

Definitely at least two, 0707 and 0733 ex-Penarth were both 769s today.

 

[Class319&373]

Definitely at least two, 0707 and 0733 ex-Penarth were both 769s today.

Ok many thanks.

 

[Optom1]

5 in Canton sidings @17.00 today,including one with a 67 attatched to the front.Only passed one on the14.07 ex Penarth

 

[PHILIPE]

5 in Canton sidings @17.00 today,including one with a 67 attatched to the front.Only passed one on the14.07 ex Penarth

One of their jobs today between Rhymney and Penarth was worked by a single 153

 

[Jamesrob637]

Only partially on topic but it would be nice to see TfW on Real Time Trains now. In fact every TOC needs/deserves to be there (allowing for the odd omission). Then 2-car service could be avoided where passengers have the choice.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Only partially on topic but it would be nice to see TfW on Real Time Trains now. In fact every TOC needs/deserves to be there (allowing for the odd omission). Then 2-car service could be avoided where passengers have the choice.

They are on RTT, but still under ATW as the TOC. Same as Avanti are still under VT.

 

[Optom1]

Looking at the 67 on the front of the769 in Canton yesterday made me ask the question of how much reduncy has been built into these units.Like an Airbus it has two completely separate power units,and I expect my airbus to get me home on one engine.As passenger numbers increase and train crowding becomes an issue a get home facility is an essential requirement,does anyone know what plans are in place to increase reliability?

 

[PHILIPE]

Only partially on topic but it would be nice to see TfW on Real Time Trains now. In fact every TOC needs/deserves to be there (allowing for the odd omission). Then 2-car service could be avoided where passengers have the choice.

If you have a look at the Real Time Trains thread you will see some discussion there but you won't learn much about TFW adopting it at this stage.

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/realtimetrains-website.189152/page-28

TFW Website has a Tool called "Capacity Checker" just one click from the Home Page. Not that I would rely on it though !!!