Transport for Wales 769's

[Optom1]

The start from Dingle road is a bit unique on a1/50.I assume the initian 50 metres is taken very gently so as not to damage the motors,but my time of1 min 34 secs to Penarth was enough to keep the schedule. As an aside ,in the old days if a restart could not bemade due to a slipping clutch, run down the bank to the signal and charge straight back up without stopping to Penarth.Idoubt iftheywould be allowed to do thatthese days

 

[Bikeman78]

Had my first train journey since the start of the pandemic yesterday. An out and return from Penarth to Barry. Three 150s, one of which had been refurbed and was very smart and a 769. The final leg from cardiff to Penarth, was the 769 (002). Had a nice open feel inside, and seemed quieter than the 150s, but boy was it slow. I don't know if the performance of 002 is typical, but it certainly seemed to be struggling to pull away uphill from Dingle Road towards Penarth. Even the Pacers used to take that in their stride, provided both engines were working.

I've been saying this since day one. There is talk of going back to four trains per hour to Bargoed in which case the timings will have to be speeded up to what they were pre March 2020. It will be interesting to see if the 769s cope. I went on a Northern 769 recently. It seemed a bit faster but then I guess Wigan to Bolton is rather flatter than the Cardiff Valleys. It was five late into Bolton having lost time en route from Southport but then it took off like a rocket and arrived into Salford Crescent only a few seconds late.

The start from Dingle road is a bit unique on a1/50.I assume the initian 50 metres is taken very gently so as not to damage the motors,but my time of1 min 34 secs to Penarth was enough to keep the schedule. As an aside ,in the old days if a restart could not bemade due to a slipping clutch, run down the bank to the signal and charge straight back up without stopping to Penarth.Idoubt iftheywould be allowed to do thatthese days

Are class 319 motors really that feeble? They seemed okay pulling away from City Thameslink. I've been on various trains around the world where full power from a stand is the norm.

 

[StKeverne1497]

Had my first train journey since the start of the pandemic yesterday. An out and return from Penarth to Barry. Three 150s, one of which had been refurbed and was very smart and a 769. The final leg from cardiff to Penarth, was the 769 (002). Had a nice open feel inside, and seemed quieter than the 150s, but boy was it slow. I don't know if the performance of 002 is typical, but it certainly seemed to be struggling to pull away uphill from Dingle Road towards Penarth. Even the Pacers used to take that in their stride, provided both engines were working.

Eldest, who is a bit of a train buff, had his first journey on a 769 the other week (Caerphilly - Central and return) and said pretty much exactly the same. Going downhill was fine, it was the return journey that seemed to be a struggle. If they are having to push these vehicles hard just to get them to keep to timetable, is it any wonder they are prone to breakdown?

In contrast the 37s seemed positively sprightly compared with the Pacers, let's hope that the tri-modes are at least as good!

M.

 

[AM9]

I've been saying this since day one. There is talk of going back to four trains per hour to Bargoed in which case the timings will have to be speeded up to what they were pre March 2020. It will be interesting to see if the 769s cope. I went on a Northern 769 recently. It seemed a bit faster but then I guess Wigan to Bolton is rather flatter than the Cardiff Valleys. It was five late into Bolton having lost time en route from Southport but then it took off like a rocket and arrived into Salford Crescent only a few seconds late.


Are class 319 motors really that feeble? They seemed okay pulling away from City Thameslink. I've been on various trains around the world where full power from a stand is the norm.

The motors on the 769s are unlikely to be damaged when running on diesel. There is only about 2/3 of the power on electric mode available from the genset, so they would just take the power that the traction controller gave them. As you say, they managed to pull awafrom a standing start at City Thameslink on the 1:29 climb up to Blackfriars for over 30 years.

 

[WAO]

The start from Dingle road is a bit unique on a1/50.I assume the initial 50 metres is taken very gently so as not to damage the motors,but my time of1 min 34 secs to Penarth was enough to keep the schedule. As an aside ,in the old days if a restart could not bemade due to a slipping clutch, run down the bank to the signal and charge straight back up without stopping to Penarth.Idoubt if theywould be allowed to do that these days

Perhaps Penarth should be the first to have the overhead wires from Cardiff, then - 4.6 route km?

WAO

 

[Cardiff123]

Perhaps Penarth should be the first to have the overhead wires from Cardiff, then - 4.6 route km?

WAO

The Penarth branch is not devolved to the Welsh Govt and TfW so is not getting any wires

 

[Meerkat]

The Penarth branch is not devolved to the Welsh Govt and TfW so is not getting any wires

Ebbw Vale wasn’t devolved and got built, as was the Wrexham doubling.

 

[AdamWW]

Ebbw Vale wasn’t devolved and got built, as was the Wrexham doubling.

That's not how the Valleys electrification is being done though - TFW owned sections only.

In any case I'm not sure how suitable a 769 would be for the intermittent electrification scheme being planned - going over to battery to get through permanently earthed sections is a bit different to firing up the diesels and then shutting them down again at each bridge.

In general, does anyone know how the 769's are doing at the moment?

I haven't noticed one for a while.

 

[Caaardiff]

In general, does anyone know how the 769's are doing at the moment?

I haven't noticed one for a while.

Not great. Apparently dropping the number of planned units out each day down a couple to avoid continual disruption and swaps.

 

[Envoy]

Being as the 769’s are obviously a failure, how long until the Flirts arrive?

 

[Corn]

Hi,

Does anyone know how many 769s are out today?

Thanks,

 

[Cardiff123]

Being as the 769’s are obviously a failure, how long until the Flirts arrive?

The class 398s for the Merthyr/Aberdare/Treherbert lines are due in passenger service first, as these lines are getting electrified before the Rhymney line. This was by Dec 2022 but I think has slipped back to May 2023 due to Covid.

The Rhymney line is due to be electrified by end of 2023, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's slipped to 2024. But I guess once the 398s are running on the Pontyridd lines, the displaced 150s can be moved over to the Rhymney line, displacing the 769s. Or the Flirts can run entirely on diesel (if the fuel tanks have the range) if they're ready for passenger service before Rhymney & Coryton line electrification is finished.

So basically TfW has at least 2 years to try to persevere with the 769s and make the best out of them.

 

[Caaardiff]

The class 398s for the Merthyr/Aberdare/Treherbert lines are due in passenger service first, as these lines are getting electrified before the Rhymney line. This was by Dec 2022 but I think has slipped back to May 2023 due to Covid.

The Rhymney line is due to be electrified by end of 2023, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's slipped to 2024. But I guess once the 398s are running on the Pontyridd lines, the displaced 150s can be moved over to the Rhymney line, displacing the 769s. Or the Flirts can run entirely on diesel (if the fuel tanks have the range) if they're ready for passenger service before Rhymney & Coryton line electrification is finished.

So basically TfW has at least 2 years to try to persevere with the 769s and make the best out of them.

Getting the 230s and 197s is probably the next saving grace for freeing up 150s.
They're already testing 197s on the Blaenau branch this week, which will free up 1x 150. Hopefully the 230s will be in by the end of the year, freeing up 2x 150s. If the 197s start up North then working Chester Liverpool & Crewe will free up 4x 153s to either replace the 150s working Pembroke Dock, meaning 2x 150s or the 153s work the Rhymney line attached to a 150. Although more recently 175s have been covering Liverpool services.
A 3 car (150+153) on the Rhymney line outside of peak trains should be sufficient. Otherwise there's potentially 5 150s to move on to Valleys services.

 

[PHILIPE]

Getting the 230s and 197s is probably the next saving grace for freeing up 150s.
They're already testing 197s on the Blaenau branch this week, which will free up 1x 150. Hopefully the 230s will be in by the end of the year, freeing up 2x 150s. If the 197s start up North then working Chester Liverpool & Crewe will free up 4x 153s to either replace the 150s working Pembroke Dock, meaning 2x 150s or the 153s work the Rhymney line attached to a 150. Although more recently 175s have been covering Liverpool services.
A 3 car (150+153) on the Rhymney line outside of peak trains should be sufficient. Otherwise there's potentially 5 150s to move on to Valleys services.

A 175 has gone back on to the Chester to Liverpools to free up 2 x 153s to be available at Chester to help with capacity during the Summer on the North Wales coast. I think that we can forget about the CAFs for a while yet until such time as some FFR and any other testing has been well advanced prior to acceptance. Then comes the training which is stretched at the moment due to the back log which has built up due to COVID regardless of any "new fleet" syndrome.

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks guys for the clarification as to where we are as of now.

 

[Kite159]

Hi,

Does anyone know how many 769s are out today?

Thanks,

I only noticed 769006 out yesterday, the other 2 Rhymmey services were single 150s & Bargoeds were single 150s.

 

[Max]

006 out today on 0707 Penarth-Bargoed. Yesterday this service was a single 150!

 

[Optom1]

Eight769(Diesel/25kv) are scheduled to be being used on Southport -AlderleyEdge/StaleybrideJnc services.Northern Trains class numbers for each service can be seen on Realtimes,and seem to show availability on average of about 50%.On average Canton seems to produce three units a day.If TfW can get availability up to 60%(Occasionally produced by Northern Rail) a fullRumney Valley service could be769 with the current reduced timetable.If we have a hot spell the drivers will be happy with air conditioned cabs!

 

[Efini92]

i noticed a TFW 769 the other day with no pantograph. Are they just running them as diesels?

 

[superalbs]

i noticed a TFW 769 the other day with no pantograph. Are they just running them as diesels?

Yep, pantographs removed at Canton apparently.

 

[craigybagel]

The routes they were always planned on working are almost completely unelectrified, so no point in keeping the pantographs. They were always planned as being replacements/supplements for the DMU fleet rather than Bi-Modes.

 

[Efini92]

Should the not be renumbered as something else?

The routes they were always planned on working are almost completely unelectrified, so no point in keeping the pantographs. They were always planned as being replacements/supplements for the DMU fleet rather than Bi-Modes.

 

[JN114]

Should the not be renumbered as something else?

Why would they need to?

 

[Efini92]

Why would they need to?

I’d have thought they’d be a 269 if they are only going to be diesel electrics

 

[Grumpy Git]

I’d have thought they’d be a 269 if they are only going to be diesel electrics

Given their propensity for falling over, I'd suggest 999 be more apt?

 

[py_megapixel]

I’d have thought they’d be a 269 if they are only going to be diesel electrics

They still theoretically have the capability to run in pure electric mode - it's just that the pantograph is not fitted, presumably as it would be a maintenance liability.
Similarly, there are 387s that don't have a pantograph, but we don't call them 487s or 587s.

 

[superalbs]

Lol, how many classifications do the 319s need?

They've already got:

• 319
• 769
• 799
• 768
• 326

 

[Efini92]

They still theoretically have the capability to run in pure electric mode - it's just that the pantograph is not fitted, presumably as it would be a maintenance liability.
Similarly, there are 387s that don't have a pantograph, but we don't call them 487s or 587s.

Good point, I’d overlooked that.

Lol, how many classifications do the 319s need?

They've already got:

• 319
• 769
• 799
• 768
• 326

They could go for the record of most different classes

 

[XAM2175]

They still theoretically have the capability to run in pure electric mode - it's just that the pantograph is not fitted, presumably as it would be a maintenance liability.

This is correct - as the pantograph will not be used it's easier to remove it and store it.

 

[Techniquest]

Given their propensity for falling over, I'd suggest 999 be more apt?

Oh I enjoyed that, sure made me laugh!