Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs

[MikePJ]

One problem would be the amount of power to get up the Rhymney Valley versus what I assume is a flatter route Cardiff to Bridgend via Barry.
Also I do not know how complete the electrification is on The TAM lines - is it enough to give the 756s enough charge for enough range for an out and back trip up to Rhymney ?.

The wires from Heath Junction to Caerphilly Tunnel should go live in the next few weeks/months, so there'll be a bit of a top-up for trains heading towards Rhymney.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The wires from Heath Junction to Caerphilly Tunnel should go live in the next few weeks/months, so there'll be a bit of a top-up for trains heading towards Rhymney.

That will help AND even better for Caerphilly ?.
Tantalisingly close to ready for Caerphilly then I suppose ?.

 

[nigelsporne]

I assume the tunnel is not electrified but how much further north do the wires go?

 

[Rhydgaled]

One problem would be the amount of power to get up the Rhymney Valley versus what I assume is a flatter route Cardiff to Bridgend via Barry.

Possibly an issue yes, but mitigated to a degree by being able to coast more on the way back down the valley. I'm not sure if the 756s have regen brakes (and, if so, whether the power goes into the battery, the OHLE (where available) or both (as applicable)). If they can regen into the batteries that would also help.

Also I do not know how complete the electrification is on The TAM lines - is it enough to give the 756s enough charge for enough range for an out and back trip up to Rhymney ?.

Ah; I assumed it was complete on the TAM lines but you make a good point - perhaps it isn't. Assuming the TAM lines are complete, there should be plenty of charging opportunities for the 756s given that the 398s are rumoured to be unable to make it (reliabily) through Caerphilly tunnel. Since the TAM OHLE was spec'ed for 398s there shouldn't be much in the way of permanently earthed sections on the TAM side if complete. There is always the diesel generator on the 756s as well if they run out of juice on the way up to Rhymney - KeolisAmey's franchise bid promised that the diesel generator wouldn't be used north of Cardiff but presumably that promise doesn't need to be kept until the OHLE is all complete across the Core Valley Lines.

 

[MikePJ]

That will help AND even better for Caerphilly ?.
Tantalisingly close to ready for Caerphilly then I suppose ?.

Yes, the Caerphilly - Penarth and Coryton-Penarth services will both benefit from the wires once they go live, whenever that finally happens!

I assume the tunnel is not electrified but how much further north do the wires go?

The wires stop just before the tunnel and then there are no more beyond it apart from a rigid conductor bar in the bay platform at Caerphilly, which allows a terminating train to recharge whilst the crew change ends.

If you're interested, the electrification layer on OpenRailwayMap https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ shows where the wires are (or are going to be).

 

[nigelsporne]

Thanks for this.

 

[Cardiff123]

Don't forget that the 756s are tri-modes and were always expected to run significant distances away from the wires and, I think, Rhymney to Heath is slightly shorter than Cardiff to Bridgend via Barry. Admittedly it would require a timetable reshuffle, but if you had (for example) Rhymney-Treherbert and Aberdare-Barry-Bridgend instead then the 756s would probably be capable of running the entire Core ValleyLines network, if there were enough of them.

The reason 231s and 756s have not yet gone any further west than Barry is because mainline crews that staff VoG services are not trained on them, with no date currently when this training will start. Nothing to do with infrastructure on the CVL or battery range.
Hopefully, as @craigybagel has said, when that training does start, it can be combined for both, but until then, 150s soldier on along the VoG.

 

[tfw756rider]

18 Transport for Wales FLIRTs have been in service today / 17-3-25 (8 231s and 10 756/1s):

• 231001/002/003/004/005/006/007/010
• 756103/104/105/106/107/109/111/113/114/115

 

[EveningStarr]

756007 out in passenger service again today 18/3/25. Worked 5B00 Canton to Pontypridd, then 2F00 PPD>CDF, then onto an Aberdare/Merthyr 'super-loop'.

 

[MikePJ]

756007 out in passenger service again today 18/3/25. Worked 5B00 Canton to Pontypridd, then 2F00 PPD>CDF, then onto an Aberdare/Merthyr 'super-loop'.
View attachment 176642
View attachment 176643

Ah, good morning double-o-seven!

 

[chargesmith]

756007 out in passenger service again today 18/3/25. Worked 5B00 Canton to Pontypridd, then 2F00 PPD>CDF, then onto an Aberdare/Merthyr 'super-loop'.
View attachment 176642
View attachment 176643

Good to see these coming into service. Presumably they'll be really easy to spot on departure boards and RTT because they show as 3 car sets? Not as easy to spot the 4 car sets now as they've displaced so many 150s that TFW are sending them out in 2s so they also show as 4 car sets...

 

[Markdvdman]

It is nice to see mainly 4 car 756s on the TAM lines even the 6:08am from Merthyr is now! Although there was a 2 car 150 going up to Merthyr from Cardiff at 7:26 or 7:56am so not all perfect as yet but getting there. Would be nice to see 4 car 150s on the VoG too! Should be more possible now.....

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm sure the Romans didn't put signs up saying it would be built in a day though...

And as for "all my fellow TfW travellers," which I'm sure was aimed at my Manchester location, I was one of those (near Llandaf) until the autumn just gone. And my experience was that I had to endure the two years of overcrowding, noise and constant closures/bustitution, but none of the benefits that were supposed to have been complete when I still had two years left there to enjoy them!

True, my choice to move away before I could see the changes, but my point is that I had to endure a commute from hell every day for two years, while staring daily at signs promising major improvements from 2022 that I never saw. In 2024.

I know these things take time, but TfW are terrible for constantly promising times they then have to change, and then change again. If you're consistently not meeting deadlines, does it not seem a good idea to stop giving these deadlines?

It's still a lot better than about 5 years ago, where you would have been crammed on a Pacer instead of a 150.
Overcrowding is a normal part of commuting, especially for somewhere like Llandaf where it's close to Cardiff at the end of the journey, overcrowding from somewhere Hayes and Southall has been commonplace at off-peak times for years.

If you compare Cardiff to Bristol or Nottingham the service is night and day, somewhere like Carlton, Netherfield or Parson Street gets half the service if that of the valley lines. It's not perfect by any means

 

[tfw756rider]

As of me typing this, it looks like 756112 is allocated to the following (and subsequent) workings today (Sat 22/3/25):

Realtime Trains | 5F00 0425 Cardiff Canton Sidings to Pontypridd | 22/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5F00 0425 departure from Cardiff Canton Sidings to Pontypridd on 22/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 2F00 0516 Pontypridd to Cardiff Central | 22/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 2F00 0516 departure from Pontypridd to Cardiff Central on 22/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 2M02 0556 Cardiff Central to Merthyr Tydfil | 22/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 2M02 0556 departure from Cardiff Central to Merthyr Tydfil on 22/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1A10 0708 Merthyr Tydfil to Aberdare | 22/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 1A10 0708 departure from Merthyr Tydfil to Aberdare on 22/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1M20 0921 Aberdare to Merthyr Tydfil | 22/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 1M20 0921 departure from Aberdare to Merthyr Tydfil on 22/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bikeman78]

As of me typing this, it looks like 756112 is allocated to the following (and subsequent) workings today (Sat 22/3/25):

That one has been out for a few days. The only four car I have not travelled on is 756110.

 

[tfw756rider]

That one has been out for a few days. The only four car I have not travelled on is 756110.

Oh whoops, you're quite right - now I have access to my list again. That would make sense, as I have 756110 as the only 4-carriage 756 that hasn't yet been in passenger service.

 

[trawscymru27]

No 756s out today... anyone know why not?

 

[Lurcheroo]

No 756s out today... anyone know why not?

I believe there is damage to the OHLE hence no 756’s out today.

 

[Cardiff123]

I believe there is damage to the OHLE hence no 756’s out today.

Presumably if this happens once all the 150s are gone, all services will be cancelled.

 

[Caaardiff]

Presumably if this happens once all the 150s are gone, all services will be cancelled.

Depends how long the batteries on the 398s can go for and if it's a complete loss of OHLE or just sections.

 

[CapitalStar378]

I think Cardiff123 was referring to TfWs gung ho withdrawal of all 756s and the future ramifications.

Presumably if this happens once all the 150s are gone, all services will be cancelled.

 

[Cardiff123]

I think Cardiff123 was referring to TfWs gung ho withdrawal of all 756s and the future ramifications.

It does seem a rather gung-ho fleet withdrawal from TfW.

The 150s withdrawal you mean? Im not sure what else TfW can do. The 150s are life expired and no one is willing to pay for their upcoming C6 overhauls.

 

[CapitalStar378]

The 150s withdrawal you mean? Im not sure what else TfW can do. The 150s are life expired and no one is willing to pay for their upcoming C6 overhauls.

Sorry, no, was referring to the suspension of all 765s and how that won't be an option in future.

 

[St. Paddy]

Sorry, no, was referring to the suspension of all 765s and how that won't be an option in future.

Wasn’t it reportedly due to OHL damage rather than a fleet withdrawal. They show as being out again today on RTT

 

[Peter Sarf]

Wasn’t it reportedly due to OHL damage rather than a fleet withdrawal. They show as being out again today on RTT

With the 756s having a back up engine and traction batteries one would have hoped they could have shrugged of OHL damage.

That is unless too larger section was without power - maybe a substation out ?. Alternative is I did not grasp if any trains were running at all - were there perhaps wires all over the track ?. Then enough 150s to work remaining services whch could indicate 150s are favoured over 756s - unlikely ?.

Unlikely 756s trapped at depot behind wires all over the tracks - not Barry because not wired.

 

[nigelsporne]

Are there sufficient 756/1s to run a full service on the TAM lines or are some 756/0s required as well? Is this the aim until the 398s are introduced?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Are there sufficient 756/1s to run a full service on the TAM lines or are some 756/0s required as well? Is this the aim until the 398s are introduced?

Total number of 756s = 24, 231s = 11. Number of 398s = 36.
So assuming 398s not meant to run in pairs then TAM lines could use all the 756s and 231s (or 10 out of 11).
If 398s are meant to run in pairs (so 18) then 3/4s of the 756 fleet would suffice. There are 17 x 756/1s.

Not sure there is enough wiring on the TAM lines ready for the 398s yet - the 398s do not have the significant off grid range that 756s have.

 

[Class15]

Total number of 745s = 24

Presumably you mean 756s?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Presumably you mean 756s?

Yeah I spotted that a bit late, corrected.

 

[positron]

Total number of 756s = 24, 231s = 11. Number of 398s = 36.
So assuming 398s not meant to run in pairs then TAM lines could use all the 756s and 231s (or 10 out of 11).
If 398s are meant to run in pairs (so 18) then 3/4s of the 756 fleet would suffice. There are 17 x 756/1s.

Not sure there is enough wiring on the TAM lines ready for the 398s yet - the 398s do not have the significant off grid range that 756s have.

The TAM lines are fully (to the extent planned) wired. The OLE infrastructure on all the TAM lines is ready to go for the 398s. The reason they're not out yet is unclear but nots lack of wiring.