Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs

[Peter Sarf]

The TAM lines are fully (to the extent planned) wired. The OLE infrastructure on all the TAM lines is ready to go for the 398s. The reason they're not out yet is unclear but nots lack of wiring.

There does seem to be a lot more 398 action recently - testing ?. So I imagine things might be moving along, of course there might be no pressure to get 398s into service if the 756s have nowhere else to go yet - that is Rhymney/Caerphilly.

 

[MikePJ]

The latest on the 398 introduction is that it has been postponed until December at the earliest. There's been some kind of technical issue with the units (wheel profiles was one thing mentioned previously) and now there's been an upswing in testing activity. There's then mileage accumulation and driver training to do. Also due to happen between now and December/January is the wiring of the Rhymney line north of Caerphilly (the section between Caerphilly and Cardiff is planned to go live on the weekend of 6th April).

Back in the autumn of 2024, TfW were talking about introducing 398s from June on the Cardiff Bay - Pontypridd route initially - and that coincided with original plans to have the Bay branch wired and ready to go by June this year. It's not clear whether that's still the plan for the December start. There is finally some intensive work going on for the Bay line at the moment so it may well be ready for the 398s by December.

 

[Bikeman78]

Are there sufficient 756/1s to run a full service on the TAM lines or are some 756/0s required as well? Is this the aim until the 398s are introduced?

There are 14 units required to cover the service to Aberdare, Merthyr and Treherbert. As I understand it, all 14 are booked class 756 from May. They could be three or four cars, but there won't be many spare three cars once they take over on Penarth to Coryton and Caerphilly.

 

[MikePJ]

There are 14 units required to cover the service to Aberdare, Merthyr and Treherbert. As I understand it, all 14 are booked class 756 from May. They could be three or four cars, but there won't be many spare three cars once they take over on Penarth to Coryton and Caerphilly.

Good to know! As there are 17x 4-car units and 7 x 3-car units, that gives a bit of capacity for maintenance.

 

[nigelsporne]

Thanks for this.

 

[Woolos 22]

Newport to
Ebbw vale every 2 hours short of 153 and 150 units today

 

[deepthought]

Newport to
Ebbw vale every 2 hours short of 153 and 150 units today

That's very poor considering the Penarth, Barry and Vale of Glamorgan services are all bus replacements this weekend.

 

[56xx]

The last 4 car 756 (756 110) entered passenger service today

 

[Wyrleybart]

There are 14 units required to cover the service to Aberdare, Merthyr and Treherbert. As I understand it, all 14 are booked class 756 from May. They could be three or four cars, but there won't be many spare three cars once they take over on Penarth to Coryton and Caerphilly.

Thanks for that.
So once the wiring is completed I am guessing the "TAM" service should be 398s, and presume the 756s move to Rhymneys VoG etc and the last 150s go in the bin.

It really is a complex cascade

 

[87electric]

The last 4 car 756 (756 110) entered passenger service today

Excellent news.

 

[Logger79]

The last 4 car 756 (756 110) entered passenger service today

It behaved faultless for me too

 

[AdamWW]

Thanks for that.
So once the wiring is completed I am guessing the "TAM" service should be 398s, and presume the 756s move to Rhymneys VoG etc and the last 150s go in the bin.

It really is a complex cascade

And of course they need to get the 398s ready for service and enough staff trained.

 

[Cardiff123]

Is there going to be a 'big bang' changeover at the timetable change next month, that's going to see 150s almost eliminated on the Valleys and to Barry / Penarth, apart from Rhymney - Bridgend? Because looking at RTT today, it seems hard to believe.

Despite Caerphilly to Rhymney being shut, over half of Barry - Caerphilly services are 150s, all Penarth - Coryton / Caerphilly services are still 150s, and some 231s have been put on the Pontypridd lines.

 

[Markdvdman]

The sad thing is TFW have not even hinted at timetable data for next month yet all others do. They are not brilliant!

 

[AdamWW]

The sad thing is TFW have not even hinted at timetable data for next month yet all others do. They are not brilliant!

Is there any reason to think there will be any significant changes?

They've already done a big change to make things work for the new trains and until they're ready in increase frequencies I can't see what would need to be altered.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Is there any reason to think there will be any significant changes?

They've already done a big change to make things work for the new trains and until they're ready in increase frequencies I can't see what would need to be altered.

I have no idea of the answer butthe way I see it, the Valleys metro has just got a whole lot more complicated. Less than five years ago the stock suburban train was a 2 car DMU which could run anywhere and crewed by pretty much anyone. Nowadays there are (still) 150s but each other class needs traction knowledge, as well as usage to maintain competency. So I am assuming that "TAM" crews who currently on 150s need to be competent on 231, 756 and 398. Obviously 150s will eventually disappear but maybe not for up to 12 months at a guess. This train crew competence is quadrupling for the crossover period.

 

[MikePJ]

Is there going to be a 'big bang' changeover at the timetable change next month, that's going to see 150s almost eliminated on the Valleys and to Barry / Penarth, apart from Rhymney - Bridgend? Because looking at RTT today, it seems hard to believe.

Despite Caerphilly to Rhymney being shut, over half of Barry - Caerphilly services are 150s, all Penarth - Coryton / Caerphilly services are still 150s, and some 231s have been put on the Pontypridd lines.

The only thing I know about is that TAM will go to 14x 756s in service daily, which I think eliminates all the diesels from those routes.

There's supposed to be the introduction of 3-car 756s on Penarth/Caerphilly/Coryton trains but that may not happen in time for the timetable change, and it's likely to be a gradual introduction rather than a big bang. Beyond that, nothing more can happen with new stock until 2026, as this requires a) that the electrification to Rhymney is completed and b) that the 398s enter service on TAM to displace the 4-car 756s.

I was hoping that we might see an uplift in Sunday services from the timetable change (because it's the earliest date at which the agreement with the traincrew unions to allow rostered Sunday working will come in) but so far it doesn't look like much will change.

 

[craigybagel]

I have no idea of the answer butthe way I see it, the Valleys metro has just got a whole lot more complicated. Less than five years ago the stock suburban train was a 2 car DMU which could run anywhere and crewed by pretty much anyone. Nowadays there are (still) 150s but each other class needs traction knowledge, as well as usage to maintain competency. So I am assuming that "TAM" crews who currently on 150s need to be competent on 231, 756 and 398. Obviously 150s will eventually disappear but maybe not for up to 12 months at a guess. This train crew competence is quadrupling for the crossover period.

In the long run, it's not really any more complicated than it already was. 6 years ago, Valleys crews all needed to sign 142,143,150 & 153. Going forward they'll need to sign 756 and 398 (231s are only temporarily on the Valleys). In both cases it's just two families of trains.
It's always a little awkward going through a transition like this, but it'll be worthwhile in the end

 

[AdamWW]

I was hoping that we might see an uplift in Sunday services from the timetable change (because it's the earliest date at which the agreement with the traincrew unions to allow rostered Sunday working will come in) but so far it doesn't look like much will change.

Coryton Sunday services are supposed to start with the December timetable change I believe.

 

[56xx]

12 out 14 units on TAM lines are flirts today. 10 x 756s ( 103, 108 - 115, 117), 2 x 231s (001 & 006). 2 150s on the other 2 diagrams (217 & 241)

 

[Cardiff123]

12 out 14 units on TAM lines are flirts today. 10 x 756s ( 103, 108 - 115, 117), 2 x 231s (001 & 006). 2 150s on the other 2 diagrams (217 & 241)

And as a result the 150s have been put on the Caerphilly - Barry / Bridgend services, not even running doubled up. Obviously an instruction has gone out to prioritise the TAM lines for Flirts now.

 

[MikePJ]

And as a result the 150s have been put on the Caerphilly - Barry / Bridgend services, not even running doubled up. Obviously an instruction has gone out to prioritise the TAM lines for Flirts now.

That's not what the schedule's showing right now: 231005, 231008 and 231010 are allocated to Barry services this afternoon. 231s can't serve Bridgend yet, but there's a pair of 150s instead: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W19640/2025-04-15/detailed

 

[Cardiff123]

That's not what the schedule's showing right now: 231005, 231008 and 231010 are allocated to Barry services this afternoon. 231s can't serve Bridgend yet, but there's a pair of 150s instead: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W19640/2025-04-15/detailed

Up until a few weeks ago, all except for one Barry Island diagram was a 231 on most days. Looking at RTT from the last few days, it's gone back to at least half of those diagrams now being 150s.

 

[AdamWW]

Up until a few weeks ago, all except for one Barry Island diagram was a 231 on most days. Looking at RTT from the last few days, it's gone back to at least half of those diagrams now being 150s.

Is that because the current temporary timetable has diagrams that cover both Bridgend and Barry?

Or are there 150s on diagrams that are entirely Barry to Caerphilly?

 

[Cardiff123]

Is that because the current temporary timetable has diagrams that cover both Bridgend and Barry?

Or are there 150s on diagrams that are entirely Barry to Caerphilly?

Yes it looks like diagrams are alternating between Bridgend and Barry which means only 150s can be used on most Caerphilly - Barry diagrams for the next 6 weeks.

Lines through Pontypridd have been almost exclusively 4 car 756s or 231s all day today, with just 1 diagram being a 150. So if this is likely to be the allocations during Rhymney line closures for the rest of this year, I'd say passengers on the TAM lines can safely say 95% of the time they can now expect to travel on a brand new train.

 

[AdamWW]

Lines through Pontypridd have been almost exclusively 4 car 756s or 231s all day today, with just 1 diagram being a 150. So if this is likely to be the allocations during Rhymney line closures for the rest of this year, I'd say passengers on the TAM lines can safely say 95% of the time they can now expect to travel on a brand new train.

Just don't get too used to that sort of brand new train!

 

[Cardiff123]

Just don't get too used to that sort of brand new train!

Well with the 398s being so heavily delayed, possibly with full introduction not until December 2026, Treherbert / Aberdare / Merthyr Tydfil passengers are going to have a lot of time to get used to 756s before they get taken away......

 

[tigermonstera]

It appears that all Treherbert, Aberdare, and Merthyr services are being run with class 756s today — so only electric trains north of Pontypridd.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It appears that all Treherbert, Aberdare, and Merthyr services are being run with class 756s today — so only electric trains north of Pontypridd.

Hallelujah. Long overdue but great news. Now we just need to get the right electric trains serving the line.

 

[Daniel Boone]

(Wrong thread)