'Transport Secretary to pull Automated Announcements off Platforms

[NSEFAN]

During normal service, automated announcements can be better, as they can be high quality and clear, with the PA tuned properly for the station acoustics.

However, disruption can confuse automatic systems and cause incorrect information to be given. I've seen this happen at Bournemouth, where trains to/from Weymouth were being cancelled and altered at short notice. The next service to London was announced multiple times as being on different platforms, sending passengers on a wild goose chase and frustrating them further. In this case it would be better to have staff making announcements and just disabling the automated ones.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Don't some West Coast stations have these tick box announcements auto but a manual announcer does the trains?

WC had a very nice system (Amey?) as well as larger Southern stations. Sadly ripped out over the year and replaced with Anne. Much more natural while still clear. Manual announcements still done regularly though.

 

[whhistle]

A few suggestions.:

• Service announcements should be short and to-the-point. Don't announce the same train multiple times, and don't whittle-off every single calling point. We could learn something from the Germans here.

And don't waffle on about where First Class is, or which zone to stand in, or where the shop is... all that information should be on the screen, if at all.

 

[tommy2215]

And don't waffle on about where First Class is, or which zone to stand in, or where the shop is... all that information should be on the screen, if at all.

I always find that information very useful.

 

[LowLevel]

Our basic train announcements are all automated now with extra stuff added in by people at control which seems to be what Grayling is on about. The automated system used day to day is generally not babysat though and is appalling at coping at with platform alterations and the like.

The station staff can view the signaller's workstation with routes set on a VDU. The auto system works off train describers so won't announce any alteration until the train physically appears at the platform or shortly before which is no good for the modern era of people who like to bung their ears with music and audio books.

It's even worse in other locations. I work into a 3 platform junction with no describers where trains on a given route might use one of two platforms that are on opposite sides. If there's a platform alterations the system will simply continue to show the wrong platform until the train is logged as departing then clear none the wiser.

 

[tommy2215]

Our basic train announcements are all automated now with extra stuff added in by people at control which seems to be what Grayling is on about. The automated system used day to day is generally not babysat though and is appalling at coping at with platform alterations and the like.

The station staff can view the signaller's workstation with routes set on a VDU. The auto system works off train describers so won't announce any alteration until the train physically appears at the platform or shortly before which is no good for the modern era of people who like to bung their ears with music and audio books.

It's even worse in other locations. I work into a 3 platform junction with no describers where trains on a given route might use one of two platforms that are on opposite sides. If there's a platform alterations the system will simply continue to show the wrong platform until the train is logged as departing then clear none the wiser.

Incorrect. Most platform alteration announcements I have heard happen well before the train is due to arrive.

 

[physics34]

Its the meaningless apologies when things go wrong that are awful. At places like victoria you will just get a constant stream of " we are sorry to announce that the....." type announcements that are extremely irritating.

Its laziness in many ways

 

[LowLevel]

Incorrect. Most platform alteration announcements I have heard happen well before the train is due to arrive.

They're the ones done manually by someone overseeing the system.

If there's disruption and the box hasn't time to be ringing the station, or there's no one near the terminal they won't happen in time.

I assume you've operated a CIS system to speak with such authority. I have. We had to pull someone off another job to babysit it if it went wrong or in disruption because the announcers had been redeployed elsewhere.

Many large stations do still have a control room person but a surprising number don't.

Darwin controlling LICC functions off train describers and manual inputs only.

 

[tommy2215]

They're the ones done manually by someone overseeing the system.

If there's disruption and the box hasn't time to be ringing the station, or there's no one near the terminal they won't happen in time.

I assume you've operated a CIS system to speak with such authority. I have. We had to pull someone off another job to babysit it if it went wrong or in disruption because the announcers had been redeployed elsewhere.

Many large stations do still have a control room person but a surprising number don't.

Darwin controlling LICC functions off train describers and manual inputs only.

Well you did kinda make it sound like you were referring to all platform alterations...

 

[LowLevel]

Well you did kinda make it sound like you were referring to all platform alterations...

I said the automated system is appalling at dealing with platform alterations. It is. It requires a human to make it work correctly or else you get nothing until too late because it doesn't recognise route setting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I said the automated system is appalling at dealing with platform alterations. It is. It requires a human to make it work correctly or else you get nothing until too late because it doesn't recognise route setting.

Why on earth doesn't it recognise route setting? It's not like the data is hard to come by!

 

[NSEFAN]

Why on earth doesn't it recognise route setting? It's not like the data is hard to come by!

Does that not depend on the signalling system? A new installation should be easy to extract the information from, but an older PSB may not provide data feeds with this information.

 

[LOL The Irony]

And don't waffle on about where First Class is, or which zone to stand in, or where the shop is... all that information should be on the screen, if at all.

Blind passengers?

 

[The Box Photter]

The most annoying thing is what happens regularly at Blackfriars. As trains enter the platform, the automated announcement happens, which announces the train (e.g. the xx.xx to Bedford) and the calling pattern. The platform staff have access to another system to make manual announcements, using hands-free microphones. This system overrides the automated system.

They have a nasty habit of waiting for the automated announcement to start and then "butting-in" with their own manual announcement, saying some of what is already contained within the automated announcement, or simply "Bedford train arriving at platform 2". This is useless. Bedford trains have three different stopping patterns, which are announced in the automated system. Regular passengers also know which trains call at which stations and identify their train by the due time at Blackfriars.

As is often the case, trains are delayed or arrive at Blackfriars out of sequence, so it's important for passengers to be able to identify the train and its calling pattern accurately. It's fine to give platform staff access to the PA system, but it should be used sparingly and only when necessary - and that also means not bawling at passengers incessantly and loudly to "stand behind the yellow line".

 

[Bletchleyite]

This appears to be the Tube disease, where taking the microphones off dispatchers and fitting a clear automatic announcer (where not already present) would make a lot of sense.

 

[The Box Photter]

This appears to be the Tube disease, where taking the microphones off dispatchers and fitting a clear automatic announcer (where not already present) would make a lot of sense.

I think (on the Tube at least) that platform staff are targeted to make a certain number of announcements per hour as the management think this keeps passengers better informed. If they don't make regular and meaningless announcements, they risk censure and possible disciplinary procedures.

I agree that announcements are vital for those passengers with sight-related disabilities, but studies have shown that if announcements are made too frequently, passengers "tune out" and risk not hearing really important ones.

 

[Parallel]

They're the ones done manually by someone overseeing the system.

If there's disruption and the box hasn't time to be ringing the station, or there's no one near the terminal they won't happen in time.

I assume you've operated a CIS system to speak with such authority. I have. We had to pull someone off another job to babysit it if it went wrong or in disruption because the announcers had been redeployed elsewhere.

Many large stations do still have a control room person but a surprising number don't.

Darwin controlling LICC functions off train describers and manual inputs only.

Is this ATW/TfW by any chance? I believe they use the older version of ATOS and the system cannot announce train formations either, despite the voices likely having them recorded. I’ve been at Shrewsbury Platform 3 before when the train to Holyhead has only been announced as an alteration as it rolls into Platform 4!

 

[BanburyBlue]

I do think the automated "the next train at platform 1 is for 'x' calling at..." are good. Much better than the manual announcements we used to have. The automated ones are clear and consistent. For example, the stations are called by their proper names. Their used to be an announcer at Banbury who used to shorten station names - "the next train at platform 2 is for New Street calling at Leamington only". Not everyone understands the railway like most people on this forum do and this used to cause confusion.

But, agree with a lot of the comments above in that there are far too many safety/security type announcements. I remember going to Maidenhead earlier this year, and was quite amused to be told to be careful if carrying very long items because of the overhead wires.

My other bugbear occurs if a train is late, and the degree of lateness changes by a minute or so where you get a continual loop of...
"We are sorry to announce that the 10.52 to Newcastle is delayed by 8 minutes, we apologise for the delay to your journey"
"We are sorry to announce that the 10.52 to Newcastle is delayed by 9 minutes, we apologise for the delay to your journey"
"We are sorry to announce that the 10.52 to Newcastle is delayed by 8 minutes, we apologise for the delay to your journey"
"We are sorry to announce that the 10.52 to Newcastle is delayed by 9 minutes, we apologise for the delay to your journey"
"We are sorry to announce that the 10.52 to Newcastle is delayed by 8 minutes, we apologise for the delay to your journey"

etc etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a configuration issue. The system as installed on the south WCML does not reannounce every time a delay changes, it tends to announce the delay as it stands roughly every 5 minutes.

 

[rdeez]

Ugh, yes please. The barrage of repetitive, automated announcements - I'm thinking of the larger stations here - is maddening.

"Cycling, skateboarding or rollerblading is not permitted in any part of the station.."
"If you see anything suspicious, please contact the British Transport Police on (whatever)..."
"Smoking is not permitted in any part of the station..."
"For your safety and comfort, 24 hour CCTV monitoring is in use..."
"Please do not leave luggage unattended around the station. Luggage left unattended may be disposed of in a fiery inferno..."

Repeated every five minutes (or less, it feels like).

 

[CMS]

I’m not in favour of this at all. Almost every country with a comparable rail network has automated announcements, so I’m not convinced there is an endemic problem. Some of the announcements about cycling or minding steps/gaps can be a bit overkill and these should be reviewed though.

I have no issues with the automated announcements, but they really do need to pack in the irrelevant drivel about not leaving "cases and parcels" (wonderfully old fashioned image) around the place. Though that said, "See It, Say It, Sorted" *has* been reasonably successful - I remember the BTP number now which I didn't before.

I'd actually like to see some more targetted ones adding, such as "Welcome to X, your next connections are..." on arrival of a mainline train at a connection point, as the Germans do.

This would be handy at key hub stations, just to popular destinations and branch lines though to avoid overkill. I agree on the “see it, say it, sorted”, although it hasn’t just been through announcements alone, but reinforcement on social media and signage.

They have a nasty habit of waiting for the automated announcement to start and then "butting-in" with their own manual announcement, saying some of what is already contained within the automated announcement, or simply "Bedford train arriving at platform 2". This is useless. Bedford trains have three different stopping patterns, which are announced in the automated system. Regular passengers also know which trains call at which stations and identify their train by the due time at Blackfriars.

You’re not the only one this infuriates! It’s the same at St Pancras and occasionally Farringdon/other TL stations - it’s particularly annoying late evenings when stopping services run as normal to St Albans then semi-fast to Bedford, to announce them as “your next Bedford service via Luton Airport Parkway is in 2 minutes” is not good enough.

 

[vlad]

I always find that information very useful.

According to the automated announcer at Stoke, VT shops sell delicious hot and cold refreshments. I'd say that's opinion rather than being useful.

 

[Pigeon]

Ugh, yes please. The barrage of repetitive, automated announcements - I'm thinking of the larger stations here - is maddening.

"Cycling, skateboarding or rollerblading is not permitted in any part of the station.."
"If you see anything suspicious, please contact the British Transport Police on (whatever)..."
"Smoking is not permitted in any part of the station..."
"For your safety and comfort, 24 hour CCTV monitoring is in use..."
"Please do not leave luggage unattended around the station. Luggage left unattended may be disposed of in a fiery inferno..."

Repeated every five minutes (or less, it feels like).

These can all die in a fire, with the ones including utterly spurious crap about "safety and comfort" not merely tied to the stake but impaled on it. And the ones about terrorism nonsense fill me with the urge to hack the system and inject my own announcements to the effect that you are many times more likely to die from falling over getting out of bed than from any terrorist action so give over with the flaming paranoia for crying out loud.

As far as the information on actual train running is concerned, though, I prefer that the announcements should be automated simply because they are so much easier to understand. It used to be a good bet on some stations that all announcements would just be an incomprehensible "DING DONG. BWAwawaaawAAaawWWaaaWawaaWAAH. WAAwahwwwahhHWAaawwaahHwwwaaWWWaaaAhw, ahWWaaawah, hwAaWaaWHAAaa, aWaahwa" booming and reverberating around the trainshed and failing utterly to convey any information. With the automated ones it appears that a good deal of effort has gone into matching the system to the station's acoustics, and it is possible to understand every word without straining to make it out at all. Also the female voice stands out better above the generally low-pitched background noise than a male voice does.

They do need to cut the waffle, though, and stop doubling the length of the announcements with all the useless padding and fake-friendly rubbish they bury the actual information in. As with the safety guff, hearing yet another repetition of some computer trying to pretend it really cares about my journey is more effective as a cue to blank the announcement out than as an alert to forthcoming useful information. Just stick to the information and stop trying to robotically cuddle me and pat me on the head.

"We are sorry to announce that the 10.52 to Newcastle is delayed by 8 minutes, we apologise for the delay to your journey"

or... "The 10.52 to Newcastle is reported running 8 minutes late."

 

[Esker-pades]

"This is a customer information announcement: Please stand behind the yellow line at all times as trains may pass through without stopping."

This was at a terminus. If a train passed through without stopping, it would crash.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This would be handy at key hub stations, just to popular destinations and branch lines though to avoid overkill.

One thing that would help would be to recruit an "ATOS Andrew" - if you have two voices, one male and one female, you can play different announcements on different platforms and people can tell them apart, so you can do that kind of thing only on the relevant platform. Phil and Celia did this quite well.

You’re not the only one this infuriates! It’s the same at St Pancras and occasionally Farringdon/other TL stations - it’s particularly annoying late evenings when stopping services run as normal to St Albans then semi-fast to Bedford, to announce them as “your next Bedford service via Luton Airport Parkway is in 2 minutes” is not good enough.

Of course the real solution to this in Thameslink's case is to regularise the stopping patterns and stick to them (i.e. no skip-stopping in disruption; just run things late or at a push turn them short) - then all you're needing to announce that the next train is a TL2 terminating at Bedford and everyone knows what that means. Or if you're going to change stopping patterns, change them within the pattern - i.e. announce that the TL3 has just become a TL1.

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to the automated announcer at Stoke, VT shops sell delicious hot and cold refreshments. I'd say that's opinion rather than being useful.

To be fair, SBB do (on train) do similarly trite announcements about the quality of food and drink in the restaurant car (which to be fair to them is quite good, and they don't mention that you'll be needing a second mortgage to buy any of it).

 

[HowardGWR]

To be fair, SBB do (on train) do similarly trite announcements about the quality of food and drink in the restaurant car (which to be fair to them is quite good, and they don't mention that you'll be needing a second mortgage to buy any of it).

Well, it keeps the riffraff out. Do they have riffraff in Schweiz (sorry, Die Schweiz)?

 

[AlexNL]

Can I chime in on the on-board CIS? Last time I was on a London Overground service from Euston towards Watford, the PIS was waffling almost constantly. The entire calling pattern, "See it, say it, sorted", "You must have a valid ticket or validated Oyster card to travel on this service. If you do not, you may be charged a penalty fare", and so on.

Can we please tone it down a bit? I feel like announcing the remaining calling pattern at every stop is over-the-top, can't a more concise version be used ("this is the all station service to X, the next stop is Y")? Is the waffle about requiring a ticket really needed, don't the NRCoT already cover that?

 

[greaterwest]

Is this ATW/TfW by any chance? I believe they use the older version of ATOS and the system cannot announce train formations either, despite the voices likely having them recorded. I’ve been at Shrewsbury Platform 3 before when the train to Holyhead has only been announced as an alteration as it rolls into Platform 4!

This often happens at Woking if the signaller puts a train in a different platform to its booked one. Usually the signaller will phone the Woking CIS operator a few minutes prior, so as to allow them to change the platform manually in SWR's Ditra CIS (soon to be ATOS).

 

[prod_pep]

Automated announcements definitely need to be toned down somewhat. Let's have a lot less "see it, say it, sorted" nonsense and keep announcements to the point. A safety announcement doesn't need a redundant tagline like this to be repeated at every turn.

(And, preferably, let's have someone other than 'Anne' too. Such an unpleasant voice, and the way she says "Transpennine Express" is especially annoying.)