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Transport Select Committee 24 June - Including plans to centralise control of Railways

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matt_world2004

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Any reforms should allow network rail to directly operate maintainence trains instead of them requiring a contractor to do it
 
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coppercapped

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If you read the July Modern Railways, you will see the Treasury wants to know when the railway finances will be back to a sustainable even keel again, with proper cost control.
HMG also doesn't want to see the back of private capital and management in the industry.
That's more important than carving up the railway to suit the crayonistas.

You are also not going to get the regional bodies (TfN etc) to lose their newly-won control over local services, not to mention devolved Wales and Scotland.
The railway is not what it was in 1993 when the break-up started, and you can't just reinvent BR in fancy new colours.
In Germany and France they are heading for a centralised long-distance operation, with locally controlled regional/commuter services, all up for time-limited contracts.
There are many possible models.
The Treasury will go for the one with the lowest annual subsidy, with something more generous in the capital investment sphere.
I agree with your analysis.

British Railways as a (old school) nationalised organisation is dead and won't come back - the political, legal, financial, safety and social frameworks have changed sufficiently that the assumptions made in 1947 are no longer valid.

In addition I would add that the idea that Network Rail will become responsible for, or even operate, trains is in the short term very unlikely - whereby I assume commentators are referring only to passenger trains. One of the points made when the DfT review chaired by Keith Williams was started in 2018 was that - depending on the conclusions - the DfT would propose legislative changes as necessary. So one should expect a lead time of a couple of years after the recommendations have been accepted.

In the meantime much has changed again...
 

Bald Rick

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Network Rail isn't just another arm of the DfT.
It has a quasi-independent statutory rule to operate railway infrastructure, with commercial relationships with all its users, public and private.
It has voting "Members" who are independent of DfT, and income streams from various sources including property.
It is also regulated by ORR and RSSB.
You could just as easily give the franchising role to ORR (in the beginning, OPRAF was independent of government), or to a new version of the SRA.

To correct a few things here.

1) the Board of Network Rail answers directly to the Secretary of State. Annual budgets are set by the Treasury via DfT. If that isn’t an arm of DfT (albeit at ‘Arms length”), then I don’t know what is.

2) Network Rail hasn’t had voting members for several years. There is only one member now, and it is the Secretary of State.

3) Network Rail is regulated by the ORR, both on economics and safety. The RSSB is not a regulatory bodyguard, and has no enforcement powers.
 

Dr Hoo

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Any reforms should allow network rail to directly operate maintainence trains instead of them requiring a contractor to do it
Given the (to me, at least) obvious synergy with freight operations in terms of traction and crew utilisation, etc., what would be the benefits of this?
 

matt_world2004

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Given the (to me, at least) obvious synergy with freight operations in terms of traction and crew utilisation, etc., what would be the benefits of this?
Currently if network rail want to use say track recording train. They need to hire an outside contractor to drive that train as they are legally forbidden from doing it themselves or a deicing train or something similar
 

Dr Hoo

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Currently if network rail want to use say track recording train. They need to hire an outside contractor to drive that train as they are legally forbidden from doing it themselves or a deicing train or something similar
Sort of makes my point though. As a generalisation Network Rail needs to run 'occasional' trains 'everywhere' but not 'regular' trains 'anywhere'. It is hardly obvious that it would be feasible to maintain an establishment of train crew, depot coverage, competency retention and so forth more efficiently than the 'local' operators on any given part of the network. This would include the hiring in of route conductors.

Noting from Clause 1 of Part 1 of Network Rail's Network Licence that it is permitted...

"(b) to be the operator of a train being used on a network for any purpose comprised in the operation of that network; and
(c) to be the operator of a train being used on a network for a purpose preparatory or incidental to, or consequential on, using a train as mentioned in (b) above..."

I am struggling to understand how it is in fact "legally forbidden" from doing just that.

I appreciate that the Network Licence has been 'tidied up' in connection with the Periodic Review for Control Period 6, being effectively a 'government body' and having new roles like System Operator but the old concept of what sometimes used to be referred to as Network Services still seems to be there.
 
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tbwbear

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The railway is not what it was in 1993 when the break-up started, and you can't just reinvent BR in fancy new colours.
In Germany and France they are heading for a centralised long-distance operation, with locally controlled regional/commuter services, all up for time-limited contracts.
There are many possible models.
The Treasury will go for the one with the lowest annual subsidy, with something more generous in the capital investment sphere.

I still think people are underestimating the changes that COIVD 19 and its aftermath will force on us. I would argue that in some ways the world has changed more in the last 6 months than it did between 1993 and 2019. The German government has just taken shares in Lufthansa and the French have had to invest billions in Air France, both pretty much unthinkable just a few months ago.

The size of the annual subsidy needed to make up the shortfall in revenue (a situation that could continue for several years) might be quite mind-boggling.
 

Irascible

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Currently if network rail want to use say track recording train. They need to hire an outside contractor to drive that train as they are legally forbidden from doing it themselves or a deicing train or something similar

Is there any framework whereby NR can effectively hire themselves to do it? are they allowed to own a company? I take it the idea that NR employs train crews & subcontracts them to TOCs has problems.

One thing about BR was at least they could make decisions & present them to govt, rather than be presented with decisions...
 

matt_world2004

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Is there any framework whereby NR can effectively hire themselves to do it? are they allowed to own a company? I take it the idea that NR employs train crews & subcontracts them to TOCs has problems.

One thing about BR was at least they could make decisions & present them to govt, rather than be presented with decisions...
I'm not sure with the track surveying trains they run daily across the network. The trains owned by NR but I think is operated by foc
 

Domh245

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I'm not sure if there is anything legally stopping them, however the complications of setting up depots, managing staff competency, etc seems unnecessary from the point of view of an infrastructure manager, particularly when you can just contract that out.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I'm not sure with the track surveying trains they run daily across the network. The trains owned by NR but I think is operated by foc

I think you'll find that the infrastructure monitoring trains are run for NR by Serco Rail Technical Services.
They bought that part of BR Research and it fits into their technical portfolio for other industries (aviation, maritime, defence).
As an example I think they operate test coach Mentor which monitors electrification systems.
Serco has had a TOC licence since the beginning, and of course had its own franchises at one time (it still has 50% of Merseyrail).
 

DJ_K666

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I would prefer to sweep the whole lot away and go back to the pre 1997 setup. I said at the time that it would all go pear shaped and I believe it has but then I am biased against privatisation so that's just my own opinion. I think it could easily be done by the Britiah Railways Board being re-constituted and absorbing Network Rail before splitting into Infrastructure and Operating divisions. Research would be taken back in house and become a new BREL. Don't think of it as winding back the clock, think of it as going back to where you took a wrong turn. While we're at it lets take back the legacy infrastructure from Highways England too. The new BR would have to be charged with reopening as much as possible too given the number of houses that need building in this country. Heh Maybe I should run for office...
 

irish_rail

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A return to an intercity national franchise would be nice, but probably more chance of pigs flying.
 

Energy

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Why in-house though? It doesn't give any benefits while privitised train builders can give lower prices as they have competition.
 

JaJaWa

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Looking at the Telegraph article quoted in one of the first posts; it says that Mr Shapps is comparing the new system to Transport for London where the London Overground Lines are run as concessions. It also says that Network Rail could be given the powers to specify and award contracts; which in itself is fascinating as it assumes here has to be a transfer of skills from DfT to NR. (I don't know where the Network Rail suggestion is from - is it Shapps or the Telegraph?)

I appreciate that even the government itself hasn't much of a clue what to do next, but the above suggests to me that Network Rail may be about to be asked to perform a TfL type role and the TOCs become consessions. (a la williams)

If all that happens, what about the marketing, branding and identity of the railway ?

Not sure about train branding, but Spaceagency are currently working on standardising station branding/signage on behalf of Network Rail...
 

Irascible

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BR Research was what originally made me want to be an engineer, it's not-quite-demise did sadden me. It did need in-house product design to give it a real raison d'etre, though.
 

Cardiff123

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RAIL magazine are reporting that the Williams review will never be published, as it's proposals have effectively already been scrapped. As the goverment is now shouldering all of the revenue risk of rail services in England, the English rail network is now nationalised in all but name.

RAIL Magazine said:
Network Rail is expected to be given an enhanced role as a "strong, guiding, co-ordinated mind" to oversee the rail industry in England. [Under devolution]', Scotland and Wales have separate arrangements.
It's thought less likely that Network Rail will be put directly in charge of writing passenger service contracts, although sources suggest that has not been ruled out and that decisions have yet to be taken by ministers at the DfT.
This would largely complete the de facto re-nationalisation of the passenger railway, with only freight and the leasing of rolling stock outside direct government control.
With just two months to go until the expiry of six month emergency agreements that have replaced passenger franchises during the pandemic, the DfT is rapidly assessing future arrangements.
"The government is moving away from a new arms-length body to oversee the railway. It needs a much quicker solution that would involve giving Network Rail whole industry planning and other extra responsibilities" a well placed source told RAIL.
"Keith Williams is reviewing his review" the source said. "The whole structure of the industry has changed since he wrote his report. With franchises gone and the government already in charge of passenger operations,a White paper and new legislation are not needed. His report will not now be published. Keith is actively involved in looking again at the structure."



Screenshot_20200731-210312.jpgScreenshot_20200731-210731.jpg
 
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Energy

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RAIL magazine are reporting that the Williams review will never be published, as it's proposals have effectively already been scrapped. As the goverment is now shouldering all of the revenue risk of rail services in England, the English rail network is now nationalised in all but name.

View attachment 81594View attachment 81599
But this is Rail magazine, the total abandonment of the review would seem a little strange. I would expect them to release it and say they will work on these improvements to look good in the public eye even if they don't happen after all.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I think it's more likely the Williams recommendations (whatever they were) are now being incorporated in a new railway organisation.
They've just leap-frogged the publication-consultation-white paper stage now that Covid has forced the EMA regime.
It means they have to work within the current legalities like Network Rail and ORR, and the 1993 Railways Act.
Franchises will probably become concessions, but the private operators will still be there (unless they voluntarily withdraw if they don't like the terms).
Network Rail looks like getting a larger role, but seemingly won't negotiate operating contracts (they are supposed to provide the level playing field for TOCs).
Wales and Scotland will be different.
 

mwmbwls

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The wheels on the train go round and round. Will the Government attempt to mend the unamendable? If the latter is even a word?
What happens next? Moving to one operator or even a revived NSE/Regional Railways/InterCity model or variant thereof could present interesting Industrial Relations issues. So what is the optimum model?
 

popeter45

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Wonder how that will work with cross border services.
i suspect the intercity cross boarder services (GWR,Avanti,LNER and Crosscountry) will be kept considered as English/under DFT control while that devolved services (TfW and Scotsrail) will be kept as devolved even during cross boarder trips
 
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WatcherZero

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I think it's more likely the Williams recommendations (whatever they were) are now being incorporated in a new railway organisation.
They've just leap-frogged the publication-consultation-white paper stage now that Covid has forced the EMA regime.
It means they have to work within the current legalities like Network Rail and ORR, and the 1993 Railways Act.
Franchises will probably become concessions, but the private operators will still be there (unless they voluntarily withdraw if they don't like the terms).
Network Rail looks like getting a larger role, but seemingly won't negotiate operating contracts (they are supposed to provide the level playing field for TOCs).
Wales and Scotland will be different.

Tony Miles is saying over on WNXX that its unlikely the Williams Review will ever be published as the Dft is blocking it as the recommendations on reduced private control and reduced competition (i.e. rationalising ticketing) increase costs to the taxpayer. He says the rumblings are that the government will not do a full nationalisation but make every franchise a concession, but it will also be doing some industry reorganisation walling the TOC's into their pigeon holes (i.e. Intercity cant try and attract commuters and commuter operations cant compete with Intercity, he cites the Liverpool-Euston West Midlands service as an example), they will be looking for savings from greater national integration and the main focus of that would be reducing operational staff where two tocs both employ staff to do the same job in the same place. Also as the government will be keeping all the revenue ORCATS will be ended.

Personally I could see it playing out as station staff and some planning staff becoming Network Rail employees rather than TOC employees and leaving the TOCs to purely operate the train services and onboard staff.
 
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Class 170101

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Tony Miles is saying over on WNXX that its unlikely the Williams Review will ever be published as the Dft is blocking it as the recommendations on reduced private control and reduced competition (i.e. rationalising ticketing) increase costs to the taxpayer. He says the rumblings are that the government will not do a full nationalisation but make every franchise a concession, but it will also be doing some industry reorganisation walling the TOC's into their pigeon holes (i.e. Intercity cant try and attract commuters and commuter operations cant compete with Intercity, he cites the Liverpool-Euston West Midlands service as an example), they will be looking for savings from greater national integration and the main focus of that would be reducing operational staff where two tocs both employ staff to do the same job in the same place. Also as the government will be keeping all the revenue ORCATS will be ended.

Personally I could see it playing out as station staff and some planning staff becoming Network Rail employees rather than TOC employees and leaving the TOCs to purely operate the train services and onboard staff.

But surely Intercity not chasing commuters and WMR not chasing Intercity passengers will reduce competition and rationalise ticketing.

TOCs running train services and not planning the whole thing would suggest a loss of commercial control and a focus on engineering vice customer service. Watch early morning and late night trains disappear if NR are in charge.
 
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